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scifista42

If you could pick one Realm667 monster...

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Doom 2 bestiary features: Zombieman, Shotgunguy, Chaingunner, Imp, Demon, Spectre, Lost Soul, Cacodemon, Hell Knight, Baron of Hell, Arachnotron, Pain Elemental, Revenant, Mancubus, Archvile, Spider Mastermind, Cyberdemon. (+ SS Nazi, Hanged Commander Keen)
Let's say you have the opportunity to add one more monster to this bestiary, and you want the monster to fit well in there and complement the bestiary in a good way.

If you could pick one and only one monster from the Realm667 bestiary to add to the Doom 2's bestiary, which one would it be? Which one would fit there the best visually, stylistically and for the sake of improving gameplay? Only one.

Useful links to Realm667 bestiary:
http://realm667.com/index.php/repository/beastiary-mainmenu-136
http://realm667.com/index.php/repository/beastiary-mainmenu-136/doom-style-mainmenu-105 (Doom Style)

For me: I definitely know it should be a hellspawn, not a zombie, because three types of zombies are already enough. Also it shouldn't be some other variation of Baron/HK, they're already two. I think my favourite would be Shadow - I somehow adore them since the first time I've seen them in KDiZD. Simple behaviour, yet effective.

What would be your pick?

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I'd tend to reject most blatant sprite edits out of principle. Graphics-wise, the Fallen, Grell, Hierophant, Terminator, and Wicked are interesting. The Hellion looks great too despite being based on a sprite edit.

Nevertheless, my final choice would be the Segway Zombie. Because I want to run through maps full of these. :p

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I don't know Realm667 too well but Doom is short of floating monster so I would add a boss strength floating monster with either homing or rapid fire projectiles.

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Uh, I don't even know what most of them do so no idea. If there is a flying hitscanner or a monster that shoots a lot of slow projectiles in random directions (danmaku style), I would pick one of them because that's what I miss in the classic bestiary the most.

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An interview with one of the members of the Alpha Dog Alliance comes to mind: he talks about how a great deal of the monsters added to the roster in Doom II seem to be variations of the other monsters, and how he and the rest of his team tried to rectify that in STRAIN. Taking that into account I'd say the Afrit(and I don't mean Erik Alm's DeHackEd one) would probably make a decent addition to the original lineup.

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Memfis said:

Uh, I don't even know what most of them do so no idea.

This. The few I'm aware of aren't very interesting - either they're minor variations on the existing monsters or they're stupidly flashy boss monsters that kill you almost instantly.

Actually, I remember one of the Cacodemon variations belches out three balls - one forward, one to each side. I guess that also counts as a minor variation, but it actually feels like a monster id would've included in Doom 2. You need to dodge it by moving backwards and to a side (or forwards if it's floating above you and you have room). Apparently it's close to how the Mancubus was originally intended to work, if the comment in the source is to be believed.

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+1 for the Shadow
It would be nice if all the monsters had a description attached to them

Visually, Cheogh and the Infernal spider both look very nice.

EDIT: While not in the Doom section, this looks so awesome.

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I think Doom lacks of imposing enemy, which is even harder than cyberdemon or mastermind. But, to be honest, I can't find a really good one to that role in Realm's bestiary. The closest one to be that enemy is, maybe, Terminator.

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I would go with the "TORTURED SOUL" pain elemental variant, I remember fighting it in Scalliano's 667 shuffle mod and it seemed interesting enough (The creepy noises it makes and the gas attacks sold me).

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If I can pick one and only one, than I pick the Lord of Heresy.

Honorable mentions: Satyr and Shadow

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Piper Maru said:

If I can pick one and only one, than I pick the Lord of Heresy.


I can make that in DeHackEd almost perfectly. :P

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Rocket Zombie. It combines the high threat of a cyberdemon with less HP and size, making them more placeable, and offers some hilarious infighting and ambush possibilities.

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If it's Doom 1, then it's the Double Chaingunner. You thought you were safe from those Doom 2 buggers… think again! It even works in Dehacked.

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Avoozl said:

Because they were killed by the demons and their corpses were hanged up on walls.


As were many of the soldiers ;)

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I'd pick the suicide bomber, the one in black armor holding dynamite sticks in his hand.

Aesthetically it fits well, it's consistent with other zombies and yet it remains distinctive enough, with the tilted head, screaming mouth, dynamite and animation you can spot it at a glance (especially important, for an explosive monster).

Within Doom it fills a new gameplay niche, weak melee monster you can easily dispatch, but potentially dangerous if it gets close to you. Plus, it's essentially a walking barrel, and my one pet peeve with barrels is their stationary nature (meaning you have to get monsters to close in to the particular spot they're at to get an effect out of it, whereas moving kamikazes are more dynamic, allow for more options).

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Avoozl said:

Because they were killed by the demons and their corpses were hanged up on walls.

They really hated those scientists, didn't they?

Phml said:

I'd pick the suicide bomber, the one in black armor holding dynamite sticks in his hand.

Aesthetically it fits well, it's consistent with other zombies and yet it remains distinctive enough, with the tilted head, screaming mouth, dynamite and animation you can spot it at a glance (especially important, for an explosive monster).

I'll pick the suicide bomber over the rocket launcher zombie any day. Those reasons alone show why it's better.

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of the ones on the Realm currently:
- Suicide Bomber for reasons Phml listed
- Fallen, so that there's a flying monster that doesn't absorb damage as easily as the Caco & PE
- Suprreme Fiend to have a boss monster that flies; imo it worked really well as a boss when I was playing around with Pogostick and I imagine it would be the same in 3D

other ones I would add:
- Archvile with a seeker, floor-hugging attack only (so the Diabolist without all the other bullshit attacks)
- an Imp variant that walks on the ceiling (I took the Lesser Mutant and did this but quickly realized that ceiling-spawning monsters can still walk off ceiling ledges; usage of these monsters in their current state would need map-specific roadblocks to stop this from happening)


if I had to pick just one I would probably go with either a Suicide Bomber or the floor-hugger Vile

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Tango said:

other ones I would add:
- an Imp variant that walks on the ceiling

A modified Imp Trite maybe? That would get my vote for cutest monster in the bestiary.

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Some quick melee monster with a leap function. Sort of like Doom 3's trite, but tougher and maybe bigger.

This because the demons / spectres arent as tough in lategame levels and they're kinda slow as well.

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I dislike pretty much everything about the suicide bomber, yet I can't disagree with Phml's assessment. It definitely fills a unique role in Doom. Maybe with better sprite work and a less annoying sound, it would make a good addition.

The scientists, on the other hand, I like from a sprite design standpoint but does Doom really need another melee monster? If I was going to include them in a map, it'd probably just be their corpses.

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