Are you up for variety? (beware, images!)

[scifista42]

(I posted this thread in Wads&Mods because of polls)
(note: I am sorry that scrolling the list hurt eyes, I didn't count with that)







(Credits to all respective sprite creators. Scalliano, you rock!)


I was looking for some zombie variations, and I searched very extensively, in various resources. I wanted to pick only the good ones that fit the Doom universe. No garishly-colored sprite edits of zombies wielding various overpowered weapons. No non-Doom looking sprites too.
I ended up with a relatively low number of results. So I thought about what kind of zombies I'd like to have, and created front-view sprites for them, as far as my skill allowed.
I still would like more. The available resources seriously lack zombies with bare hands and pistol zombies.

Now to the point of the thread. I was thinking about variety. In modern-day games (look at Doom 3), enemies no longer look all the same everyone. And it applies specially for human-like enemies. In Doom, zombies.
Imagine that Doom had as many different zombies as in the pictures above. Not every of them would have unique behaviour. For example all zombies wielding the shotgun would behave the exact same. The purpose of the variety is just sort of eye-candy, to impress the player and also not get him bored by fighting still the same cloned foes.
Imagine that. Would you like Doom if it was like that? Would you possibly like a Doom mod like that? Do you think it would be worth the effort to create full sprite sets for the zombies above? Or do you think it'd be a bad idea to have this kind of visual variety in Doom?

Discuss.

I personally would like if the above-proposed sprite variations existed, and would like to see a mod involving them all, and even more of them. Including some more zombies with fists, pistols etc., those are lacking. I would not like it to be randomized, though. If there was the possibility, the mapper should be able to decide where to put which particular type (headless, white, black, girl). I think the approach of Doom 3 and its different zombies is the right way, that I'd like to see in classic Doom too. As long as the spirit is kept, I am for variations.

[Marcaek]

There's nothing wrong with reskinned enemies in Doom IMO, as long as they aren't simple, crappy recolors. It's a nice touch to replace stock sprites when done well for no other reason than aesthetics.

That said, I personally dislike the notion of randomizing enemy sprites for practical reasons of identification. At a distance, you can tell what kind of enemies a horde contains or what's sniping at you, and it can kinda look like a mishmash if you have a multitude of monster variants mixed with other monsters that have their own variants. I guess a way to avoid this is to say replace just the heads or something and leave the colors and shape mostly intact.

Also, there are pistol zombies out there. Zero Tolerance by Zero Prophet has a dual wielding version, and I remember a single version on the ZDoom forums that lacked mirror sprites(not that big a deal but it's funny to imagine them switching which hand they shoot with :P

[Memfis]

I think it will be amusing for a few minutes but after that you'll wish for the carnival to end. Just like with textures or flats, the sprite usage also needs to be consistent or else the variety will become annoying. But that's only a guess, in reality maybe I would like it but so far I'm sceptical about this idea.

[SyntherAugustus]

Individuality with the zombies sounds like a nice idea. It'd work better with the Pistol and Shotgun zombies. The recolored Chaingun zombies and other monsters might need a purpose for showing up though, say the Green zombie shot projectiles instead or the Blue had a chance to shoot critical hits or something. The headless ones would probably be "rare" due to their nature.

[Magnusblitz]

I like the idea of having multiple varations just for the sake of variation, but it's also very easy to go wrong. For example, the only way to identify a pistol zombie vs. a shotgun zombie at first glance is the color of their hair/uniforms - the guns are slightly different but very difficult to differentiate in game settings. So mixing and matching their heads/armor isn't a good idea. Also not a fan of the brightly colored chaingunners (bit kitschy). I do like the different scientist models though, assuming they all act the same and there's no different gameplay-wise between a zombie with an axe and a zombie with a crowbar.

(Also, an aside, the heads on the female troopers look pretty terrible in general)

[Da Werecat]

Magnusblitz said:

(Also, an aside, the heads on the female troopers look pretty terrible in general)

They look like Jesus. Especially the ones on the right. Pervert zombie Jesus squad! I bet there's some sort of commentary buried in there.

[Gez]

Random variety for skin color and head in a given zombie class isn't a bad idea.

Random variety for uniform color doesn't make much sense.

[Phendrena]

I quite like variety. I've used the zombie scientists and female troopers in a couple of my wads. They scientists were used to populate a research base and the female troopers for added variety - i don't recommend the suicide bomber zombie though as its sound file (while easily edited) is one horrendous noise!!

Dave

[Dragonsbrethren]

I hate this idea from a readability standpoint. If these were models in a modern game, you'd mix up the heads and some of their accessories but leave the base armor alone.

Also, yeah, Jesus with cleavage is pretty ugly.

[Megamur]

I'd enjoy something like this, personally, especially if it was a mod that would randomize the appearance of zombies in existing WADs, but only their appearance, not their behavior or stats. I'd just like to see a Phobos Base that isn't populated entirely by white guy marines. :)

A separate mod that would have civilian zombies would be good for Doom II maps--people on Earth who weren't soldiers, but were possessed and picked up the nearest firearm to start hunting humans.

Though, like the other posters in this thread, I have concerns about randomized uniform colors. Not only is that not very sensible just in general, but would make identification difficult (especially stuff like the rifle zombies with shotgun guy black armor, and vice versa). I'd recommend alterations to race, gender, hair color and facial features, and uniform color subsets for different occupations (maybe brown labcoats for rifle scientist zombies and white labcoats for shotgun scientist zombies?), but that's all.

[Kontra Kommando]

I like the idea of many different enemies. I think you should implement all of them. I don't believe less is more; more is more. I'm planning on creating several different varieties of zombies for my wad. I want to make them look more aged, and decomposed. Other than aesthetics, I also want to make them even slower, yet tougher to kill (more zombie-like imo).

[Avoozl]

I look at the doom humans as being more possessed than actual zombies, also I thought zombies were supposed to be fast yet weak and they relied on numbers?

[myk]

The id guys played D&D and the zombies there were pictured as slow. The DOOM zombies are arguably a mix of the demonic corpses from
Evil Dead II and D&D zombies.

Can't say I care much for this idea because I think variety in DOOM sprites is better as something functional and not just decorative and I play vanilla style most of the time, where you can't add more than one or two extra zombies without problems, but I've always thought most of those heavy weapon dude edits really suck because the original red armored sprite hides bloodsplats on the armor, and thus any non-red versions need blood stains added on the jacket and leg gear.

[fullmetalvaran33]

I like the variety of sprites shown here...I think variation sprites--when used properly--can really spice up a map.

I am very curious, though, as to what that last sprite is (the one from GBdoom2.wad)? It's like some weird Arch-Vile/soldier/zombie hybrid thing...I've never seen that one before.

[Antroid]

Gotta say, out of all of these, I really love 59 and 60. Those look amazing. The scientists are also cool, and the headless ones are creepy and therefore cool too. I also like 57 for some reason. If I didn't mind using custom monsters made by others I would totally grab those for my things.

As for the question, I wouldn't mind zombies being randomized a bit. Sure the uniforms should probably stay the same, but you could have different tears on them and bloody stains and such. I don't think you would mistake them for any other enemy even if there were many color variations. And not being sure what weapon a zombie is using at a distance (or until he fires it) could be quite interesting, too. I think I would enjoy that. The recolored chaingunners need to go, though. And I think the chaingunner heads look kinda dumb on normal zombies, nevermind the fact that they're still noticeably darker than the arms. Maybe it's just because I never liked sprite edits like these which are made from several different sprites (the archvile thing looks really awkward too).

[Springy]

fullmetalvaran33 said:

I am very curious, though, as to what that last sprite is (the one from GBdoom2.wad)? It's like some weird Arch-Vile/soldier/zombie hybrid thing...I've never seen that one before.

It's from the Ghostbusters TC. If I remember correctly, it could deal a lot of damage but it didn't possess any of the Arch Vile's powers.

[Avoozl]

59 and 60 look like the Doom 3 ZSEC's.

[Antroid]

Avoozl said:

59 and 60 look like the Doom 3 ZSEC's.

Yeah, although the ZSECs were pretty much regular doom zombiemen in D3 (can't deny they were badass, though), these would work alongside the regular zombies as some sort of elite soldier-type enemy, still a zombie of course.

[scifista42]

Thanks for all your opinions so far. Just to make it clear, the only sprite edits that are my own work are the ones with an X below them, while the rest are monsters taken from various resources.

I did think about identification when creating the sprites. With the male zombies, I thought the distinguishing mark would be the heads. You're right that uniforms make better sense, but still think that for example a zombieman with black trousers wouldn't be bad. With females I wasn't that specific, I only cared about their clothes to be "harmonized", kind of. Chaingunners with different armors would have slightly different health, speed and aggresivity - the blue one is like he's wearing Doomguy's blue armor. Also, sprites need to be bright because Doom's dimming effect makes colors to darken quickly.

I deeply agree with the opinion that this variety needs to be used properly, not randomly. For example a map would use mostly former humans looking similar to the default ones, sometimes with different trousers or black skin. But then, upon entering a new area, they'd get black uniforms and player's mind will be blown for a moment. Dark areas would benefit from occassional use of the headless zombies. Then there would be areas that suddenly use mostly only females. And so on. The "unique" monsters from the bottom line (57-64) would be used only sparsely and strategically, actually to add to the gameplay value. Or for immersion moment, like if the map is building atmosphere for five minutes and then the archvile-zombie from GhostBusters Doom appears. :) (I like him, he even has an increased number of walking frames compared to a standard zombie.)


If anyone knows about other existing zombie variation sprites, please tell me, I'd be interested how much of a variety could be put together from available resources.

[Average]

I like the idea of variety as long as they're still readily identifiable as to which type of enemy they are. That's one of Dooms strengths IMHO. I do particularly like the subtle marine sprites at the top of the page and I've always had a soft spot for the marines with helmets. It's nice to see the soldiers in different states of dress/readiness before they became undead. :)

[Gez]

Average said:

It's nice to see the soldiers in different states of dress/readiness before they became undead. :)

According to the original story, the zombie enemies were those people who were sleeping when the invasion began, and they were possessed in their sleep. Those who were awake were simply killed.

So the zombies should be in pajamas.

[scifista42]

Gez said:

According to the original story, the zombie enemies were those people who were sleeping when the invasion began, and they were possessed in their sleep. Those who were awake were simply killed.

So the zombies should be in pajamas.

Maybe the zombiemen's light dress are pyjamas, while sergeant's dress is a regular uniform. Or a black pyjamas. Now it makes sense, it always was strange that these zombie soldiers wear different clothes than Doomguy. :)

[Sp00kyFox]

pyjama doom with pillow weapons, make it happen!