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Plut

Who wants new oldschool megawad?

Is it a good idea?  

60 members have voted

  1. 1. Is it a good idea?

    • Yes
      46
    • No
      14


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Today I thought that it would be cool to make a megawad with 90s design feel and interesting and fun gameplay like Requiem, MM series, Alien Vendetta. etc.
What do you think about it?

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I voted yes, but I don't necessarily say it has to be a direct sequel with the name Memento Mori III, although why not, for sure.
(To be honest, I played only very little of the MM classics.)

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I think it's kinda impossible to make a wad like that, mappers just think too differently nowadays. Even ones like valkiriforce, who often attempts to make very 90s-like levels.
But sure, it would be super cool if something like that appeared. Though I personally dislike "fan sequel" names like Plutonia 2, TNT 2, etc. I find them very lame and arrogant.

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Ok, we can change title to custom one, it even makes more freedom for mappers, exempts them from "sequeling" and lets make oldschool, but free
in style aspects maps.
EDIT: Thread's name and OP is edited.

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Memfis said:

I personally dislike "fan sequel" names like Plutonia 2, TNT 2, etc. I find them very lame and arrogant.


I don't see how, since these "fan sequels" are follow-ups to fan content, albeit officially-sanctioned fan content.

As for MM3, I'd say go for it. I still haven't beaten MM1 yet though - I should work on that.

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Just to clarify, I would find e.g. Alien Vendetta 2 or Nex Credo 2 lame as well. It has nothing to do with whether the project is "official" or not, I just think it's arrogant to name you project like if it's a real sequel. I have nothing against fanfiction but imo the names should be, I don't know, less misleading. For example, darkreaver's "Plutonium Winds" is ok for me.

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I tend to agree with memfis, direct sequels are rather rude and original authors may not like it, see the Cyberdreams 2 thread. I'd say PRCP took a better approach. The title cites the inspiration, but changes it and leaves out any numbering, so it's clear it's not hijacking the brand.

I'm sure many players would enjoy a MM-inspired megawad. And I think you should go cheeky with the title, some sort of play on the latin phrase, perhaps turning it into the opposite - how undying Doom seems to be. :)

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I'm gonna definitely agree here. I'm getting tired of modern wads shoving up bastard-like tricks (teleport traps and overabundance of hitscanners) down my throat.

Obviously no sequels or anything.

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Jayextee said:

Memento Memento Mori.

This title is too clumsy and not sonorous enough IMO.

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Plut said:

This title is too clumsy and not sonorous enough IMO.


I can't hear you. My tongue was so far in my cheek I started licking my own ear.

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One day I'm going to have to commission the design of an emoticon or other symbol so that it is clear that my terrible jokes are not serious communication and threads can cease to be derailed.

Until then, it's very very nice. :P

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So, what do you think about "Alien Resurrection" guys? This title is good and symbolic in my opinion.

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Plut said:

So, what do you think about "Alien Resurrection" guys?


I think Whedon was using it to test his mettle in a genre outside his comfort zone. Indeed, the Betty and her crew come off as a kinda 'proto-Firefly', only with more sweary nastiness.

I liked the film more than most, but didn't approve of the usual 'Mother' matriarchal computer being replaced with 'Father'. Destroyed the inherent symbolism.

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Heh, i meant it to be "Alien (Vendetta) Ressurection", but if there's a game with this title it becames non-working.

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Plut said:

So, what do you think about "Alien Resurrection" guys? This title is good and symbolic in my opinion.

I guess that's a good way to lower expectations :P
Eh the film was ok, kind of the same with Alien3..... but that's not important right now.
A new vanilla community project would be cool, though I kind of wish interception 2 would get back on the road to completion.

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What the fuck. People are actually pissed that there are OFFICIAL sequels to other wads, made with the permission of the original team?

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Okay, I`ll see if I can get a map done by tonight. Will there be any new textures? Or has there been at least any thought about this? Style of game play I`m assuming would be on the lines of AV style slowly ascending towards HR Post Mortem style?

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I love this idea. But it comes down to faith in order to keep a megawad project running so it can all be completed in time. After WOS I did Doom 2 Unleashed in which the mapper designed a Doom 2 map to his own abilities, no time limit, no deadline, just a fun project. 12 months later the megawad was completed, play tested and released. I did the final arrangement of the maps, so for example from base to hellish and more monsters the farther you progress into an episode.

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Springy, don't mind for the time being, this thread is just a poll for checking mappers interest in the project :).

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I assumed it was for that reason. Still though, I have had a few ideas for layout so it could be used for something else if this doesn't go ahead. I can always get started on something but if this does go ahead, consider my arse signed up (I just disagree with using an existing series name).

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dew said:

I tend to agree with memfis, direct sequels are rather rude and original authors may not like it, see the Cyberdreams 2 thread.


You may be right, but I really don't see anything wrong, and I certainly don't think it's rude at all. Look at Hell Revealed 2, for example. A lot of people think it's great (I'm one of them), a lot of people even consider it a spiritual sequel to the first one. But even then, everybody knows it has nothing to do with the first one. In Cyberdreams case, I just want to remind you of this:

Albert Valls said in another thread:
Should this project gets through, may I ask you to make clear in your wadauthor text file (or whatever it's called nowadays) that the .wad and its contents have nothing to do with CyberDreams' actual authors, nor with CyberDreams' original planned sequel.

Many thanks.


Obviously Fellowzdoomer agreed, so I don't see a problem. It's not like the names have copyright or something like that.

dew said:

I'd say PRCP took a better approach. The title cites the inspiration, but changes it and leaves out any numbering, so it's clear it's not hijacking the brand.


This is an example of what I just said. I don't think it's rude, especially if the "sequel" lives up to the name (and in case of Cyberdreams 2, I think we can't really judge it without seeing the final result; who knows? It may be as good as the first one).

Just my 2 cents here.

And yes, I would love to see yet another old-school megawad.

EDIT: Orthography.

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Springy said:

I have had a few ideas

You can start making your map, I don't forbid it.
What about new textures - they will be probably.

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I can't wait until I'm buying TNT2: Devilution off Steam because it was finished a while ago and then id bought it. I refuse to believe it's a real sequel unless that happens.

Also, I shall use my partner's dusty old MacBook Pro to develop Even More Fucking Realms Of Chaos where I shall floodfill entire levels with GSTONE (except the Pestov Platform) in honour of Rob Berkowitz.

I'm not sure where this snarky post is going, so I shall stop now.

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Ragnor said:

What the fuck. People are actually pissed that there are OFFICIAL sequels to other wads, made with the permission of the original team?

"Pissed" is a bit strong word here but yeah, I think it's silly when a sequel is developed by a completely different team, even if a permission is given.
I guess if we were talking about movies, for example, my position would be different. Like, if you are making a movie that expands on the Star Wars universe, then obviously you can't name it completely differently. You need "Star Wars" as a part of the name, otherwise it will look very strange. But in Doom, where the plot doesn't matter, you can name a wad pretty much however you want and it won't make the levels look out of place. You don't have to name a set of Plutonia-inspired levels "Plutonia 3" when you can name it "The last outpost of hell" or something.


Now, on-topic. I'm already worried about this project because Plut puts AV together with Requiem and MMs. But they are VERY different.

I'd say MM exists somewhere between 1994's mapping and Requiem/MM2. You can clearly see some 1994 traits in MM's maps. Like maps 10 and 17 are basically "house.wad"s, maps 12 and 25 are just generally bizarre/unconventional, maps 15, 16 and 26 have very bare looking rectangular areas.
Now, MM2 and Requiem have significantly more clean and consistent visuals, very noticeable use of copypaste and symmetry in level design, frequent use of new textures. They are closer to modern mapping than MM but still retain that old-school feel.
And finally, we have Alien Vendetta. This is a completely different beast, leaning very close to the modern principles. Large impressive looking areas, high detail with borders, gradient lighting and such. The layouts "make sense", there is not much abstractness in AV.

And I haven't even touched the gameplay yet, which is of course also very different in AV. (Comparing the gameplay in MM, MM2 and Requiem is a bit trickier, I'm not ready to do that yet.)


So basically what I'm saying is that if you are going to organise a project like that, you need to put significant effort into defining what exactly it will attempt to be. Just naming a few classic megawads won't do the job.

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I agree with you. My imagination of this project is something like a mix of Requiem and AV styles with 5-10 % of MM2 style.
If somebody has any ideas about the title, post them please.

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