A Switcheroom Experiment

[Megalyth]

Given that Doom2 is much more varied in styles, themes, and map sizes than Ultimate Doom, a Switcheroom for Doom2 would require a bit more thought and planning, but I wanted to take the first step anyway (and I needed a break from my other maps). I've put together a map with the layout of map01, but with a general Hell theme and increased difficulty. It plays on map01.

Thanks in advance for any feedback, criticisms, or further ideas.

Link

Note: The map is not a mash-up of map01 and map29. I just liked the play on words, so I went with it. If a Switcheroom II were to happen, this map would naturally occupy a more appropriate slot, or possibly not even be used at all. It was just an experiment, after all.

Edit: Yes, there are inescapable death pits. Deal with it.

Edit #2: Made some changes to balance and difficulty. Link updated.

[Memfis]

I liked it, it was cool to see a more ominous version of map01 and the music choice made the atmosphere perfect for me. The start was a bit slow maybe (I don't like shotgun vs cacos/HKs action) but then the gameplay became more exciting. FDA.

[Megalyth]

Nice demo, thank you. Based on this, I can see where some improvements can be made, specifically the placement of the SSG to avoid any drudgery, since most players will likely explore side-rooms before continuing down the corridor.

[scifista42]

I liked the level mostly. A few nice simple ideas make it good on its own, only I'm not sure how it would fit into a megawad. Doesn't seem appropriate for neither a first map slot (due to viles, cyberdemon, BFG), nor a late one (due to a relative layout simplicity and easyness). You said it I know, it's just an experiment and I have no problem with that at all.

The flaws of this map are a shortage of ammo (I opened exit room with no ammo at all, and faced a group of high-tier hellspawn), and the inescapable pit which would deserve at least a secret teleporter out in the place of the Entryway 2-imp secret.

What I specially like are the hellish decorations and the idea of descending stairs in the first room.

Switcheroom 2 would be nice. Contrarily to the first one, there are quite many ways how to set up the map-switch rules in Doom 2, I know this has been discussed before already. If somebody comes with a well sounding plan, I'd be in. :)

[clamgor]

There are 4 clusters of Doom 2:
Starport (MAP01-07)
Hellish Outpost (MAP08-MAP11)
Hell on Earth (MAP12-MAP20)
Hellish Heart of the City (MAP21-MAP30)

These names are not canon BTW.

[Pure Hellspawn]

Crasger said:

There are 4 clusters of Doom 2:
Starport (MAP01-07)
Hellish Outpost (MAP08-MAP11)
Hell on Earth (MAP12-MAP20)
Hellish Heart of the City (MAP21-MAP30)

These names are not canon BTW.

i feel as if Map07 is part of the Hellish Outpost?

Also, how about the Icon Of Sin?

[Gez]

Pure Hellspawn said:

i feel as if Map07 is part of the Hellish Outpost?

Yep. The text screens are between MAP06 and MAP07, MAP11 and MAP12, MAP20 and MAP21, after MAP30, and also before each secret level.

MAP01 to MAP06; subterranean/starport levels:
    Level 1: Entryway
    Level 2: Underhalls
    Level 3: The Gantlet
    Level 4: The Focus
    Level 5: The Waste Tunnels
    Level 6: The Crusher 

MAP07 to MAP11; hellish outpost levels:
    Level 7: Dead Simple
    Level 8: Tricks and Traps
    Level 9: The Pit
    Level 10: Refueling Base
    Level 11: Circle of Death/'O' of Destruction!

MAP12 to MAP20; city levels:
    Level 12: The Factory
    Level 13: Downtown
    Level 14: The Inmost Dens
    Level 15: Industrial Zone
    Level 16: Suburbs
    Level 17: Tenements
    Level 18: The Courtyard
    Level 19: The Citadel
    Level 20: Gotcha! 

MAP21 to MAP30; inside hell levels:
    Level 21: Nirvana
    Level 22: The Catacombs
    Level 23: Barrels o' Fun
    Level 24: The Chasm
    Level 25: Bloodfalls
    Level 26: The Abandoned Mines
    Level 27: Monster Condo
    Level 28: The Spirit World
    Level 29: The Living End
    Level 30: Icon of Sin

[Megalyth]

Some maps don't exactly fit neatly into their own episodes, though. Maps 14, 18, and 19 are more like castles or gothic structures than anything resembling areas of a city, for instance. Monster Condo could just as easily have been a city map as a hell map, Abandoned Mines could have been placed among the "industrial" city maps, and so on. We do have the accepted "episodes" of Doom2, but we can break the themes down a bit more, in my opinion. That may complicate things a bit, but it could add variety as well.

[scifista42]

What about themes "base, city, hell"? Pick any map that definitely isn't a base, and tweak it into a base style. The same with all 32 maps. Then reassign map numbers. Have 11 base maps, then 9 city maps, 10 hell maps - and 2 Nazi maps. :)

EDIT: Or perhaps don't even rely on these numbers, just place all the base maps first, then city and hell, and have 2 Nazi slots. That would solve potential problems with picking mapslots and theme assigning. ("We can't give you this slot, because then this other slot would have to be a theme it can't be" paradoxes)

[Gothic]

How about "Switcheroom 2: PluTNT edition"? I think mixing both megawad styles would be easier than mixing Doom 2 maps, 16 maps from TNT with Plutonia style and vice versa.

[Walter confetti]

pretty cool map, but i've expcted a red hellish sky.... it could be way better

[Salt-Man Z]

gothic said:

How about "Switcheroom 2: PluTNT edition"? I think mixing both megawad styles would be easier than mixing Doom 2 maps, 16 maps from TNT with Plutonia style and vice versa.

Ooh, I like this idea.

[Megalyth]

walter confalonieri said:

pretty cool map, but i've expcted a red hellish sky.... it could be way better

I slapped it together in a few hours, of course it could be better. This is far from a finished product.

[Fernito]

Whatever this project ends up being, count me in! :D

[schwerpunk]

Ditto. And while I know we're far from reserving slots, I'm going to admit that I'm mostly thinking about switching the layout of MAP14 - The Inmost Dens with the aesthetics of lower-level map.

[Megalyth]

scifista42 said:

I liked the level mostly. A few nice simple ideas make it good on its own, only I'm not sure how it would fit into a megawad. Doesn't seem appropriate for neither a first map slot (due to viles, cyberdemon, BFG), nor a late one (due to a relative layout simplicity and easyness).

I was thinking more along the lines of a map21 or 22 slot, but the game-play does need work.

schwerpunk said:

Ditto. And while I know we're far from reserving slots, I'm going to admit that I'm mostly thinking about switching the layout of MAP14 - The Inmost Dens with the aesthetics of lower-level map.

In my opinion, you should just go ahead and make it anyway. The ball is already rolling, and mappers seem to enjoy this concept enough that a sequel would come together nicely.

I might as well use this post to share some shots of "The Refueling World" (it's a stupid working title, I know, and definitely not one that I plan to use for the finished map). I might have over-done the detail in places, but I feel pretty good about this map, and I think it does a nice job of portraying The Spirit World as a "real" star-port or refueling base.

Pics

Edit: Actually, the hell with it, this map is in a playable state as far as I can tell, but I could use some feedback or demos to help me iron out any game-play issues.

Map

[scifista42]

Megalyth said:

Edit: Actually, the hell with it, this map is in a playable state as far as I can tell, but I could use some feedback or demos to help me iron out any game-play issues.

Map

The map is very easy and quite undynamic, even compared to both of the originals (personal opinion). You just wander around a vaguely familiar environment without much of a threat or surprise on the way. Only a lot of techy detail which mostly is just decorative. But well, it might be my higher expectations.

Again, some good ideas are fitted in, although for example the boss monsters walking among a few zombiemen is a little weird design. Your management of space seems to me almost like a parody on D2TWiD :) (sorry I had to say this), as a lot of the wide open areas are much wider and more open than necessary and even comfortable. Then you find yourself fighting harmless zombiemen on a large courtyard, which is totally flat except for some details in the background, and contrarily these details are pointless for gameplay.

I'd personally cut down on some detail, specially that which doesn't have any gameplay function and doesn't replace any particularly recognizable structure from the original map. Also I'd redo the hitscanner placement thorough the whole map to create for a much bigger challenge. Add sergeants and perhaps occasional chaingunners. But also place all monsters so they could cause a harm to the player, for example in strategic groups. Finally, I think most of the reinterpretations of MAP28 setpiece fights turned out subpar, while these specifically should have been the best of your map. Let the player be excited when the bosses appear, or when the red key trap triggers, and provide some really memorable challenge there!

That's what I think. Not a bad map at all, it serves its purpose. Would fit well inside a full mapset of such D2 switched-maps.

I'm thinking I'd do some map too. I'll just consider which one.

[scifista42]

I made an experiment too. Underfactory. Works with MAP02's layout and gives it a city-level aesthetics and feel, mainly with the flavour of "The Factory".

MAP12 slot. Oh, and it's vanilla.

Screenshots:


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I also started working on Wolfencity, a MAP31's layout tweaked to look like a city, in MAP15.
Screenshots: 1 2 3 4

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And also I've been thinking about an organized version of Switcheroom 2, with rules and proper management and all, based on this my idea I described before. I mean, I thought how the rules would be set up so it will be less confusing and more easily managable.

What about themes "base, city, hell"? Pick any map that definitely isn't a base, and tweak it into a base style. The same with all 32 maps. Then reassign map numbers. Have 11 base maps, then 9 city maps, 10 hell maps - and 2 Nazi maps. :)

Anyone up for it? Just hypothetical debate for now. I just myself realized that I like creating Switcheroom maps, so I'd be glad if there was the project already. Even if I should have started it myself.

[tourniquet]

@scifista42 well done really enjoyed playing your map.
this kinda deja vu feeling but still not knowing what comes next was great. so i would like to join in case you really wanna start a project like this.

[Memfis]

I think I would make a map if there was Switcheroom 2. I enjoyed having a layout already planned for me when working on the first one.

[scifista42]

Thanks for the feedback! Any other opinions, regarding Switcheroom's sequel?

Megalyth, when you arrive here, please check your private messages.

[Fernito]

scifista42 said:

Thanks for the feedback! Any other opinions, regarding Switcheroom's sequel?

Megalyth, when you arrive here, please check your private messages.

Well, as I stated earlier, I'd love to participate on a sequel of Switcheroom. Actually, I've been thinking of making a base-themed version of either Monster condo or Spirit world.

[scifista42]

I actually posted a proposal of my version of the rules to Megalyth. Once we agree on them, the project may be started. Choosing slots will be partially restricted though, in order to make things both interesting and dirigable.

[tourniquet]

scifista42 said:

Choosing slots will be partially restricted though, in order to make things both interesting and dirigable.

I totally agree with that.

[EvilNed]

doublepost

[EvilNed]

[scifista42]

The official thread was just started: Switcheroom 2

From now on, please post there.