Bikeshedding: Renaming 'Ultimate' Freedoom

[fraggle]

Our doom.wad build is currently named on the title screen as "Ultimate" Freedoom. This is obviously ripping off the original WAD; I've never liked it, it seems others don't like it either, and I'd like to get rid of it. But in that case, how do we distinguish the two WADs?

The two WADs presumably constitute two parts of an overall story, so how should those two parts be called? Vote above, and after a week I'll pick the most popular option and update the title screen appropriately.

Feel free to suggest other options and I'll add them to the poll.

[Average]

Part 1 and part 2. Clear and simple. :)

[fraggle]

Related: the two "parts" (or phases, chapters, etc.) should probably have subtitles. Like, "Freedoom Phase 1: An Unexpected Journey", or "Freedoom Chapter 2: The Two Towers" (though not those names, obviously). Suggestions are welcome.

[Gez]

Note that we don't need to have "Ultimate" Freedoom come first in the narrative. It could come after. Freedoom: The Aftermath or whatever. Something that could justify it being four separate short "missions" instead of one long campaign.

[fraggle]

Good point, although from a compatibility standpoint that could be quite annoying. Imagine trying to explain how to load a mod using Freedoom. "For Doom 1 mods you want to use freedoom2.wad and for Doom 2 mods you want to use freedoom1.wad"

[Quasar]

Yeah, please don't do that, unless you want to blow up everybody's configs for ports like EE. Having to swap around the paths is something nobody needs to do.

[fraggle]

Don't do what? Freedoom's IWADs are already named doom.wad / doom2.wad and always have been. We're proposing to solve that problem: see here.

[Quasar]

fraggle said:

Don't do what? Freedoom's IWADs are already named doom.wad / doom2.wad and always have been. We're proposing to solve that problem: see here.

And EE doesn't assume they're named anything at all; it detects them by the lumps that are inside.

But detection doesn't re-run for people who already had their files detected, unless they force it to do so, and then it only ADDS paths, it doesn't replace existing ones.

Swapping 1 and 2 needlessly will thus cause the paths to be reversed. What was "Ultimate" Freedoom will start loading Freedoom 2, and vice versa.

[Gez]

fraggle said:

Good point, although from a compatibility standpoint that could be quite annoying. Imagine trying to explain how to load a mod using Freedoom. "For Doom 1 mods you want to use freedoom2.wad and for Doom 2 mods you want to use freedoom1.wad"

Freedoom "2" is already named just plain Freedoom, and Freedoom "1" could be Freedoom Unleashed or Freedoom: Unfinished Business to still be Freedoomu. :p

[Quasar]

Gez said:

Freedoom "2" is already named just plain Freedoom, and Freedoom "1" could be Freedoom Unleashed or Freedoom: Unfinished Business to still be Freedoomu. :p

Haha I like the last one.

[wesleyjohnson]

DoomLegacy also has "Ultimate FreeDoom" hard coded as a substitute for "Ultimate Doom".

It also looks for a few unique wad file names, such as FreeDM for the deathmatch FreeDoom. If the user renames the wads it is easier. It would be easier still if FreeDoom gave its wads unique names like that, and then stayed with the same names.

If Ultimate FreeDoom is the FreeDoom version of Ultimate Doom, then it needs some Ultimate in there somewhere, or at least the U.
I cannot think of any other way to identify Ultimate Doom playing rules (episodes, weapons, etc.) other than saying "Ultimate".

FreeDoomU

Doom1 to me (and DoomLegacy) is the shareware Doom.
There will be no understanding of any numbering scheme such as 1 and 2.

FreeDoomU can be a prequel to Freedoom, same as Ultimate Doom. It is using the earlier weapons and map naming, and that already suggests a prequel.

We cannot get one wad to be consistent, so I would laugh at any idea of getting consistent story between FreeDoomU and FreeDoom. They could just as well be separate universes.

[boris]

I voted for "phase", just sounds most interesting to me. I think it should definitely incluse a 1 and 2, since everything else is probably pretty confusing to people outside the Doom community. I mean, who should know that "Ultimate Freedoom" isn't an enhanced version of "Freedoom"?

[wesleyjohnson]

There is not a "none of the above" choice in the voting.
All the choices have numbering. Such a system is broken even now, as free-plut would not fit, and any other free-xxx wad would not fit a numbered scheme.

I prefer a scheme where each wad gets identified in three letters
after "free", instead of a numbering scheme. Any future wads can be easily fitted into such a scheme.
I want to vote for freexxx.wad naming scheme.

Under such a scheme FreeDoom could be free2.wad, but trying to put Ultimate Freedoom as doom1 is boxing yourself into a corner.
What would you call a vanilla freedoom, as that would better fit as free1.wad.

[chungy]

More numbers can always be added. There will never be a "free-plut"; there is no need for such. There has been an idea passed by for a FreeCTF, but ideas such as that are really the only good extra IWAD ideas, not pointless things like "free-plut".

[fraggle]

I think we have enough IWADs already. free-plut and free-tnt make no sense to me: the originals are just Doom 2 with new levels.

[andrewj]

fraggle said:

I think we have enough IWADs already. free-plut and free-tnt make no sense to me: the originals are just Doom 2 with new levels.

There are numerous new textures in TNT and Plutonia (more in the latter), and some existing textures from Doom 2 were modified.

P.S. for the original question, I'd go with "FreeDoom 1" and "FreeDoom 2" on the title screens.

[chungy]

Freedoom's doom2.wad already contains replacements for the new textures from TNT and Plutonia. Making new IWAD targets for them is senseless.

[RjY]

Firstly: Congratulations on getting 0.8 out.

On topic: AGM 1 and AGM 2. Or AGM and AGM Episodes. Yes I know what it really means and I don't care, it's written all over the doors and wall panels already.

—

Digression: if dropping the name "Ultimate", how about dropping the name "Doom" while you're ther——/me ducks, and runs off stage.

No but seriously, I heard this in a channel I was lurking in a few days ago. Paraphrasing: """Freedoom was a good name for a collection of permissively licenced freely reusable PWAD resources, but it's become its own game now and shouldn't have a name with "Doom" in it."""

That said I don't think that means the whole project has to change names (especially with having updated all the URLs again after all). "Freedoom" is the team/organisation, making a libre game for Doom engines, entitled "AGM" (or whatever you choose)

[fraggle]

andrewj said:

There are numerous new textures in TNT and Plutonia (more in the latter), and some existing textures from Doom 2 were modified.

As we can include those extra textures in "Freedoom 2", the principle remains the same, though. I don't see any reason why "free-tnt" or "free-plut" ought to exist.

[fraggle]

Digression: if dropping the name "Ultimate", how about dropping the name "Doom" while you're ther——/me ducks, and runs off stage.

Changing the name to drop "Doom" was proposed, years ago, but the eventual consensus was to stick with "Freedoom". You can see some old discussion threads here:

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/freedoom/2044-project-name/
http://www.doomworld.com/vb/freedoom/2736-project-name-list/
http://www.doomworld.com/vb/freedoom/2997-let-ballot-begin/

I recall that we decided in the end to just stick with "Freedoom" but I can't find the thread where that was decided.

No but seriously, I heard this in a channel I was lurking in a few days ago. Paraphrasing: """Freedoom was a good name for a collection of permissively licenced freely reusable PWAD resources, but it's become its own game now and shouldn't have a name with "Doom" in it."""

That said I don't think that means the whole project has to change names (especially with having updated all the URLs again after all). "Freedoom" is the team/organisation, making a libre game for Doom engines, entitled "AGM" (or whatever you choose)

I'd prefer if we didn't have separate names for "the project" and "the result of the project" because I think it's needlessly confusing.

wesleyjohnson said:

There is not a "none of the above" choice in the voting.

Added this as requested.

[GreyGhost]

Gez said:

Note that we don't need to have "Ultimate" Freedoom come first in the narrative. It could come after. Freedoom: The Aftermath or whatever. Something that could justify it being four separate short "missions" instead of one long campaign.

Given the smaller bestiary in Ultimate Freedoom, I'd treat it as a set of skirmishes (possibly unrelated) that precede the main campaign. "Freedoom Phase 1: Prelude to Disaster" if you like.

[fraggle]

After a week of voting, Phase 1/Phase 2 seems to be the clear winner. I've updated the title screen to take this into account.