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invictius

Does Evilution "feel" like better quality to free TeamTNT maps to you?

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I know it started out as a free megawad, but I just can't shake the feeling that it's of a higher standard than, say, Icarus. I'm not sure why, must be crazy, or have been conditioned to believe that commercial always = good and freeware = meh.

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Yes/no. Too many factors to consider; Evilution had a longer development time than Icarus, so it's only natural that most of the maps look better or feel less tacked-on. Eternal DOOM on the other hand was worked on for far longer, and by Christ it shows (although the style isn't to everyone's taste/expectations).

It's nothing to do with whether or not the mapset is free, it's down to how much time went into making it.

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I've not had any experience with TNT's other work, but I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up spending a lot more time on polish and extra passes after the commercial incentive was introduced

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BaronOfStuff said:

It's nothing to do with whether or not the mapset is free, it's down to how much time went into making it.


While I agree with this, let's not forget that both Memento Mori and its sequel were made in an incredibly short time, so it's not necessarily a factor (of course, in the vast majority of cases, it is).

About TNT: Evilution, even though I like it far more than The Plutonia Experiment, it's certainly not the best work by Team TNT.

EDIT

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I did not like Icarus, for the most part. I did like most of Evilution. I've said before that I think a truly outstanding megawad could be made by taking the best levels of each and putting them together.

the doomwiki page for Plutonia has this quote:

Unlike their contributions to TNT: Evilution, which were edited after submission (four were also rejected due to being too large), these turned out to be the final revisions of the levels; Dario Casali later commented, relieved that no further changes were required, "thank God because I was ready to throw my computer out the window at the time"


The interview with Ty Halderman on Doomworld's 5 years of doom page has some bits about redoing parts of the levels, too.

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It's only better because of the presence of Tom Mustaine levels. Turns out, they're pretty much the best ones.

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plums said:

I did not like Icarus, for the most part. I did like most of Evilution. I've said before that I think a truly outstanding megawad could be made by taking the best levels of each and putting them together.

the doomwiki page for Plutonia has this quote:


The interview with Ty Halderman on Doomworld's 5 years of doom page has some bits about redoing parts of the levels, too.


This is from the interview:

...the Casalis were TeamTNT members, and a couple of levels that weren't selected for Evilution ended up in Plutonia...


Now, I didn't remember that part, but the thing is, we've had a lot of "Plutonia vs. TNT" threads, so that's interesting. Even more, I remember I read somewhere in this forums that the start/finish teleporters in Plutonia are actually taken from a level in TNT.

I know this is a little off-topic, but I had to say it.

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From the interview...

"a couple of levels that weren't selected for Evilution ended up in Plutonia"

I wonder which level were those?

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I consider Icarus and Eternal classics personally. I also agree that Tom Mustaine makes some good maps; Perdition's Gate is a lot of fun and also a classic.

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Yes, that has me curious as well. Would be crazy enough just for them to exist, much less them being uploaded.

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I think TNT is a great Megawad, and I prefer it to Plutonia. That said, there are a few that are just downright crap and shouldn't have been released ever. Like "Baron's Den" for instance. But it also has one of my alltime favorite Doom maps "Dead Zone".

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Avoozl said:

I don't think Baron's Den was bad, but I think a map like Habitat is bad. :P


Didnt you try converting Baron's Den for PSX Lost Levels, or was that someone else?

Anyway, yeah, TNT does feel like higher quality, Team TNT had id riding their asses making them edit the shit out of their levels to be a higher standard. Not well ENOUGH though, since the Pharaoh bug happened and id ignored the fix for a very VERY long time.

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Icarus was better IMO, but I enjoyed both. And Evilution was worth the money.

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The TNT maps that made it to the PSX were of far better quality than the handful of Plutonia maps IMO. I have played both on the PC and feel the same way. Plutonia just seems like chaingun spam. TNT feels like "real' Doom - difficult enough to be challenging without being a chore of wading through the same shit. Having played Icarus ten years ago, all I can say is that it didn't grab me like Evilution.

Apologies to Plutonia fans.

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