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scifista42

Switcheroom 2 - Alpha 2

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Sorry for not updating anything on the map progress, had a busy schedule last week (chockfull of practical classes in hospital). So I haven't had a chance to finish the maps...

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Hurricyclone said:

If you don't like the fountain I can get rid of it. Helps to cure visplane fever as well. But I want to put SOMETHING in the middle there.

What should I do with the area on the right of MAP19? That's actually where I ran out of ideas. Magnus seemed to like it and so far there's not much negative for that area.

For the fountain, I'd say replace it with something which undoubtly makes the area to be a 4-way crossroad. Instead of one structure in the middle, which restricts movement and field of view, maybe add some (perhaps non-blocking) detail in the corners/on the floor that looks like the shape of crossroad.

For the eastern area, not a bad idea with those buildings, but they don't look very good to me. Too simplishly boxy. But if they were more complicated, they'd probably take player's attention and distract from the area's recognizeability. I'll tell you my strategy for what I do when I run out of ideas in Switcheroom map: Copy the areas very similarly to what they were, and change texturing. With your buildings, I don't know, maybe use some nicer-yet-nonstriking textures on them, perhaps you could make some buildings out of 1-sided linedefs to block view and save visplanes.

Mainly please correct the flawed ammo balance, relying on finding weapons in secrets and insufficient even then.

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scifista42 said:

I'm sorry to be repeatedly harsh on you (I don't want to), but:
1. The texturing is ugly, cramped-ness is annoying and some structures are weirdly angled and shaped.
2. You again failed to follow MAP15 structure, also you excluded a lot of the original areas, which you shouldn't had.
I can imagine MAP15 being done as an extensive E1M2-style techbase, I don't think it would be a problem to keep the layout. Please, try better.

I'll just drop this slot, I think it's impossible to make a small level without excluding anything from the original map, but if someone does then it's all good.

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I might be interested in taking over joe-ilya's MAP15-as-MAP02 slot, let me fire off a quick proof of concept for approval before committing though.

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I hope i'm going into the right direction with this. It's still just a concept of the first areal with a few enemies for testing purposes.
Resemblances to Map05 should be clearly obvious.

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Nice, tourniquet, you are a great mapper! The piece of map totally works and feels as it should.

Magnusblitz, I've replied you via PM.

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I just realized something...

Right there, in the OP, the rules stated originality, and being curious about one's own work. Now, I know I didn't have feelings for that fountain structure there before. But after reading that rule, I now think it fits just fine. It, and other structures, don't exactly fit the context of "MAP26 in city", yes, but it's something I put there for a little originality in my work.

Clearly the most memorable thing about The Abandoned Mines was the intersection itself. I really did not want my intersection to be fully open for that. The layout's there, and I decided to be original too. I hope that combination of things isn't too bad.

Yes, I'll get to ammo and maybe do something about the area on the right, that's for sure. Not trying to be angry, I just figured out one of the rules.

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You are true. The only thing I can add is that a mapper still should primarily be obliged to satisfy players, who are eager for Switcheroom-style reinterpretations of IWAD maps. And giving them a deja-vu enjoyment is, in a Switcheroom project, an essence.

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Okay I came up with a different idea for the right portion.



I've removed the buildings and put some hills (that you can't climb) where monsters are. The road's still flat, but this is okay as most city levels are.

It's kind of a reverse of the lava path, if you will. People should still recognize they're on a path.

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@walter: Not bad. I specially like the fact that your base is the classic bricky/GRNWALL/water styled one, whereas my (following) MAP06 will be metallic+nukage based.

Fellowzdoomer, please don't spam. Feel free to clearly state what you wanted to express. From your post, I didn't get it.

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http://speedy.sh/KNucW/map15-as-map02.wad

Heavy WIP of Map15-as-Map02. (Yes, some switches missing and probably some HOMs)

To turn it into a techbase, I envisioned taking the "outdoor tall buildings" of MAP15 and squashing them down a bit vertically, and make the space between them hallways instead of open ground. The middle structure remains free-standing and outside.

Just want to get a sense if this seems like it's on the right track, or I should scrap it for either A) something much closer to MAP15's huge outdoor building design, or B) something else entirely.

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...misanthropia, thats how i name this one. At the moment with UV settings only, and definitly not enough health and ammo distributed.
Theres still a lot i need to tweek and polish but the basics are done.

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tourniquet said:

...misanthropia, thats how i name this one. At the moment with UV settings only, and definitly not enough health and ammo distributed.
Theres still a lot i need to tweek and polish but the basics are done.

Awesome! I like how you can capture the structure and progression logic of the original map in a well recognizable way, even though you employ lots of vast changes. I like how you achieve quality through competent use of high detail and focus on enjoyable gameplay at the same time. The "scale everything up" strategy works great in your implementation. Your style reminds me of a late cannonball's designs (if he resigned on slaughter-gameplay), but your artful way of crafting out shapes seems even a bit better to me.

This map is your another big success. The only couple faults I'd point out are minor. All your secrets are basically cubyholes. Bars in the windows near SSG are weirdly clipping, I recommend fixing it, it's so simple - everything needed is to change light level on one side of the bars, or alter height variation. Lastly, my problem when playing was that I couldn't find the rocket launcher. Eventually it turned out it was top easy, but anyway I recommend either placing it somewhere else, or change the mechanism, so the player will more likely find that place earlier. I didn't notice the newly uncovered switch manipulating the lift down there. You know, it's an unknown mechanism you've used there. Alternatively, return RL to the MAP05's default RL place. If the player finds the RL earlier, I'd say he wouldn't even need much more ammo than you've provided in the map. But still a little bit more would be welcomed, yes.

Again, I like the map a lot, great job!

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tourniquet said:

...misanthropia, thats how i name this one. At the moment with UV settings only, and definitly not enough health and ammo distributed.
Theres still a lot i need to tweek and polish but the basics are done.

I really like this, really nicely done, fairly tricky with some good visuals which do manage to sell a city environment to me.

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Damn hours and hours of playtesting and i didn't even notice those clipping bars, gonna fix that.
Well i was also a bit unsure about the RL position so i'll gonna place em at the default location.

thanks for the feedback Scifista and Cannonball.

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Yeah, that's a damn fine map. The start was good but I really liked the outside area with the Times Square-style billboard.

I agree on the RL, the absence of it was the only thing that felt off to me about the map. Probably wouldn't need too much more ammo or health (though some would be good).

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Well, I think it might be time to do the monster invasion to "Nirvantlet" and then just render the line dead. (Expression for finishing something days or even weeks before deadline and having lotsa time on your hands before compilation finishes.)

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@Hurricyclone: Oh well, OK. To your maps and your recent changes to them, I see a slight improvement. They surely look a bit better (texture variety in MAP16-08 actually helped, so I accept it as an adequate Sandy Petersen-inspired tribute). You solved the problem with ammo in a way that player still lacks it initially, but gets well stocked later on. Given that players will most likely play the wad in continuous, it's acceptable. Pistol start comfortability just had always been a plus, and advanced mappers usually don't underestimate it, but that's not to say it's downright wrong. In fact, I see a similarity between your approach to creating Doom maps and my own approach some time ago, and I understand. No doubt your maps well fulfil their job and are totally useable. Good job.

(But MAP26-19 now lacks the rocket launcher in singleplayer, I think it deserves a correction before final release.)


@walter: Seeing your screenshot, I think it's really good that you're working particularly on this slot, and that this slot is being worked on particularly by yourself. :) Your maps are always OK and often fun, but also they always give a vibe of scatterness and makes the player constantly ask themselves: "Why?", just to answer: "Because the author wanted." This characteristic awesomely fits to MAP19, therefore I'm already looking forward to personally explore your base. And I dislike MAP19, mind you! I think I like the way you're building the layout anyway.

(I dislike MAP19 due to horrible mandatory and unobvious secrets, "one-way" paths and weird mechanics that all directly obstructs to reach an exit. Hopefully you're gonna reduce this aspect as much as possible.)

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Hurricyclone said:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/ky9g4e6bsc1b1np/

Sorry for saying this, but this will be the last time I'm gonna be working on these maps. I'm really trying to catch up with the rest of my real life now, and won't have time to revise these any further. At least they were acceptable.


I only played Map 19 by now. Found a missing texture at that brick wall.
If one of the arachnotrons steps on the teleporter that leads to the room i mentioned above, it gets stuck in the wall. This happened twice during playtesting.
The absence of the RL is slightly annoying since the SSG is available quite late.

Difficulty, Health and Ammo distribution felt ok , except the missing RL, which makes a pistol Start a bit too tough.
Overall the map works out for me and similarity to Map26 is given.

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