Switcheroom 2 - Alpha 2

[tourniquet]

Heh, months passed without anything happening and now this seems to flow gain. Nice....

@locke Nice shots but be aware to not make exact duplicates in terms of layout, the predecessor of this project had a bunch of problems because of that.
Feel free to reshape stuff and implement some of your own ideas as long as the layout stays recognizable.

[LockeRequiem]

I'm gonna implent a bit of The Crushers in the map. So far, this is all from memory! Thanks, tourniquet!

[scifista42]

LockeRequiem said:

Also, 30 Minutes later, this pops up...

Original
http://imgur.com/7KdvSde
http://imgur.com/4Uuvqut
http://imgur.com/r6DNaGr

Mine
http://imgur.com/vqPpC8F
http://imgur.com/LrIuy2E
http://imgur.com/z2aQjKp

Work in Progress

Very early progress, actually, I can only see a couple bland shapes yet, one light level and basically one texture everywhere. You're in no rush, though.

Also, what tourniquet said.

Also, you're not supposed to put any layout parts of The Crusher in your map.

[LockeRequiem]

Oh, so I can't put the crusher that's in The Crusher?

[scifista42]

Any player who will play your map should primarily see The Living End in there, but tweaked. In other words, any player should think off The Living End as the first when seeing your map. You are allowed to put references, as long as the original layout is kept and it's recognizably that map (MAP29). Crusher might (or might not) be misleading.

[Guest Unregistered account]

Aaargh! Fine, I'll claim the last slot. *Lets out breath*
I'll put as much oomph into it as I can!


At least, when I come back from camping.
___________________________

[EDIT]: Actually, MAP24 in city style could be a goldmine for me. The heights and narrow walkways would really fit a city... shame it's not MAP24 --> MAP20, but I guess you can't have everything.

[scifista42]

Alright. We have fully taken slots (again). It's still summer holiday, the best possible free time opportunity (at least for students), so - let's map! This includes people who joined a longer time ago and still have a work in progress. You know who you are! I have your names and your claims written in the OP! :)

@Joe667: The target slot actually doesn't matter, in the means that you don't have to emulate exactly MAP16 anyhow - you can simply go for a generic city.

[Magnusblitz]

scifista42 said:

EDIT: By the way - where are you, Jaws in Space and Magnusblitz and others?

Finally finished my last Switcheroom 1 map, so I'll be able to start working on finishing up MAP02 this week, hopefully. It's a big map, so, taking me a while...

[scifista42]

Thanks for letting me know.

Besides Jaws in Space and Magnusblitz, an_mutt has a job on MAP07 and C30N9 on MAP29. I'm also not sure about zinkai and BlueFeena if they're going to continue development of their maps, those are sufficient though.

[tourniquet]

IIRC Zinkai's recent version had a few vpo and maxsprite problems.
Think i still have one of his earlier attempts on my HD which was at least in my opinion more suitable.
Just in case he stays afk.

[LockeRequiem]

I think I'm making some decent progress! I will release the small bit I have unless its not allowed (?). Has very temporary exit, I plan for everything to be connected by stairs or lifts.

Name: Crushing End

http://www.mediafire.com/?cstc66vgf28qds2

[scifista42]

LockeRequiem said:

I will release the small bit I have unless its not allowed (?).

There's no reason to disallow it. I thought it would be uncomfortable to you to post wad links frequently, it's probably going to keep myself busy as well if I had to check out each version so often, but I don't mind it (right now). You can post versions in progress if you feel like it. As a beginner, you could really benefit from feedback, and I'm here to provide it to you, so that we can eventually end up with a map as good as we can make.

So, I get that you're focusing on structure at first. It's starting off well. But I'm going to show you that your map has problems with texture tiling and alignment. Many textures are cut off, which they shouldn't be - it doesn't look eye-pleasant. Just realize that you'll be better to prevent such situations, by designing the map with texture tiling in mind. Here you can see what I'm talking about :

http://i.imgur.com/8O0HYPn.png
http://i.imgur.com/2dpB3yH.png
http://i.imgur.com/yyt55QR.png
http://i.imgur.com/D0QmWTp.png

I also hope that you'll make this spot actually possible to find - it's really unintuitive now:

http://i.imgur.com/8KtX4Aa.png

Majority of the map still remains to be made - just keep it up!

[LockeRequiem]

scifista42 said:

So, I get that you're focusing on structure at first. It's starting off well. But I'm going to show you that your map has problems with texture tiling and alignment. Many textures are cut off, which they shouldn't be - it doesn't look eye-pleasant. Just realize that you'll be better to prevent such situations, by designing the map with texture tiling in mind. Here you can see what I'm talking about :

http://i.imgur.com/8O0HYPn.png

*facepalm*

http://i.imgur.com/2dpB3yH.png
http://i.imgur.com/yyt55QR.png
http://i.imgur.com/D0QmWTp.png

I had to squint to see these. About that switch, yeah, I thought I put COMPBLUE and aligned it before releasing. Whoops.

I also hope that you'll make this spot actually possible to find - it's really unintuitive now:

http://i.imgur.com/8KtX4Aa.png

So...make it a sector and darken it a bit? (Its just a linedef now.)

Majority of the map still remains to be made - just keep it up! [/B]

Thanks! I get the feeling you played this on UV? xD (the 41% health xD :P)

[scifista42]

LockeRequiem said:

So...make it a sector and darken it a bit? (Its just a linedef now.)

I guess so, at least. Or make the corner brighter and blinking/flickering. Or maybe make it a pressable switch, so that it's top obvious for everyone.

EDIT: Yes, playing UV.

[Jaws In Space]

For map 10 in hellish style I've got the overall layout done, I'm now working on detailing & texturing. I've been a little busy lately, but I should have some free time soon. I don't know exactly when I'll it done, but it will be sometime in September.

[scifista42]

LockeRequiem has been banned. Dunno why, maybe simply for admitting his age lesser than 13, maybe he was actually a ban-evading Fellowzdoomer (Coincidence?). Anyway, if his ban doesn't turn out as a misunderstanding (which I doubt will happen), I'll have to open his map slot again. (MAP06<--MAP29)

---

And now:

I'm finally releasing Wolfencity!!! DOWNLOAD: https://www.sendspace.com/file/6rukp5

(MAP31 in city style, plays on MAP15)

First playable version is complete. Also, as I promised, I've included the scrapped and abandoned precedessors to this map. Have fun, and give me some feedback, please. I haven't published a map in a while. All honest opinions are welcome, specially those which can help me to make the map better.

[Magnusblitz]

Ugh, insta-pop enemies from the floor... usually from asphalt, no less. To each his own, though. Speaking of which, I know we've discussed it before, but I still really think it's weird to have liquids above or on the same level as solid ground. Just looks really strange to me. The fact that the blood here is also just a straight line contributes to this, I think; changing it to curvy lines so it looks like it's been encroaching would make it look more normal.

As far as more objective issues go, I was running out of ammo, especially shells, pretty regularly. Granted I was also playing some haphazardly, so it might just be that. Didn't find any out-and-out bugs or HOMs or anything.

[Jaws In Space]

...maybe he was actually a ban-evading Fellowzdoomer

pretty obvious if you ask me, I'd reopen the slot.

[joe-ilya]

I want to rename "falling dens" to "ruins"

[scifista42]

Okay, but don't you want to change the name to remind of Bloodfalls in some way? True, "Ruins" is a relatively fitting name for what the map is.

MAP06 slot open. Anyone can step in and get it, if he wants to try a Switcheroom-style map and have it featured in this project.

[tourniquet]

Some thoughts about Wolfencity. Looks city-like but a bit texture variation for the buildings might break up the the monotony.
Maybe a bit more masonry to break up the modwall texturing.

I don't mind all those insta pop enemies, i use them too sometimes but they seem to be a bit overused in here. I would try to vary them with some trap doors/closets.

I like the YK secret but the you should distribute a few more cells for the cybie.

Generally the map needs way more ammo, i was almost constantly low.
Maybe a bit more health too, some of the traps are quite unforgiving + a lot of hitscan damage from everywhere.

Here's a demo attempt. No FDA, forgot to record when i played this the first time.

[scifista42]

Thanks for your replies, Magnusblitz and tourniquet, and thanks for the demo.

I don't sympathetize with your ammo complaints at all. I want my levels to be equally well balanced for pistol starts and continuous playthroughs - I don't want to allow the player to struggle or be overstocked on either. Specially not to have too few bullets/shells, but also not too much rockets/cells. It's a hard thing to do. I presumed that casual players will play continuously, and so I focused on it. And people who pistol-start maps will do it because they want an increased challenge. Therefore, I find it normal that a pistol start UV player will have to manage his ammo wisely. I tested the map on UV, playing conservatively (but not entirely), and even allowed about 10% of my shots to miss (I guess) - and even then, I ended up with ammo for all weapons and a lot of shells. I made sure that no particular room breaks the balance if the player managed to skip it. So I thought that I balanced ammo well. I honestly don't want to add more, because of the non-pistol-starters. You can always fight a Cybie with the SSG, there's always enough room and ammo for that. Similarly, I do think that there's enough health in the map, even with nasty hitscanners in mind (and I'm a bad player, unlucky on getting hit by monsters). Now when you see my explanation, don't you agree with it?

I needed to incorporate at least some challenge into the level, but Wolfenstein's layout doesn't offer many possibilities - so I decided for a mixture of insta-pop floors, teleport traps and monsters in windows, occasionally something different. Couldn't come up with anything better. I can't imagine preserving the map's challenge without "overused" instant floors. I've already added other elements, as you can see. I don't want too many closets extending the layout - now I have about 5 of them and all feel odd.

Regarding liquid floors - I thought that my case didn't look that jarring, instead I thought that a curved line / sunken floor would look weird and bad. Flat floor and straight border line are elegant and don't overcomplicate visuals and catch player's attention more than needed. I really thought that the choice fitted the fake D2-like oldschool-style-ness of my level. I'll have to think if I can come up with anything better-feeling than that.

Texture variation - I definitely agree with you. But how to achieve it, without looking too haphazard? I'm afraid of that, as I believe that I've achieved a reasonably unified theme - but some rooms (buildings) could potentially work with brick textures. I'll try what it will do.

Thanks again. If anyone played the map and has an opinion / suggestions, feel free to tell me - I'll be glad.

[sincity2100]

http://www.mediafire.com/download/2bx4sl64t9dhyyg/Doom+2+Switchroom+Map+11-18+%40.wad here's my map entry

I call it "Death Yard"

[scifista42]

sincity2100 said:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/2bx4sl64t9dhyyg/Doom+2+Switchroom+Map+11-18+%40.wad here's my map entry

I call it "Death Yard"

I'm very sorry to say, but could you please rework the map - to be less of a "MAP11 redesign", which it's not supposed to be; and more of a "distinct MAP18 layout in (generic) techbase style", which it is supposed to be - please?

[sincity2100]

Okay

[Guest Unregistered account]

Doomworld said:

LockeRequiem[/B]
Banned

That's a shame, he seemed quite nice and we had fun PMing each other. I wonder if we could ask Grazza specifically? I mean, it seems kind of harsh to ban him because of his age. At the most, he should have been Loser'd.

Anyway, about my map, it turns out I'm not going camping until next week, so I'll fix up some of my map. ;)

[Doomkid]

Joe667 said:

That's a shame, he seemed quite nice and we had fun PMing each other. I wonder if we could ask Grazza specifically? I mean, it seems kind of harsh to ban him because of his age. At the most, he should have been Loser'd.

Anyway, about my map, it turns out I'm not going camping until next week, so I'll fix up some of my map. ;)

Seems likely it was Fellowzdoomer. Dunno what he was thinking.

[sincity2100]

http://www.mediafire.com/download/2bx4sl64t9dhyyg/Doom+2+Switchroom+Map+11-18+%40.wad I took away the redesigned by the map 11 style and replaced it with the techbase style

[scifista42]

sincity2100 said:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/2bx4sl64t9dhyyg/Doom+2+Switchroom+Map+11-18+%40.wad I took away the redesigned by the map 11 style and replaced it with the techbase style

I'm really impressed by your mapping speed, but see - you've only changed texturing and got rid of MAP11 homages. However, I haven't seen a distinct-enough MAP18 in your map even before. I find all the resemblances vague and there's many distractions from MAP18 typical elements. Do whatever you can, so that the player has no problems at all to recognize MAP18, even without knowing that it's coming. Take a look at an_mutt's current MAP12 in MAP07 - it was also found to be vague, and an_mutt was going to rework it.

What do you other people think about sincity2100's map?

[Magnusblitz]

I played IWAD MAP18 right before this one, and I can definitely see the shared progression - exit door at the start, a large outdoor area, yellow key near the door, yellow door leads to the key for the exit in the column room, etc. But I agree that I think it's a bit too different in many respects... probably the central courtyard itself, feels a lot different with the wall setup and larger central structure, the yellow key area is basically far enough away that it's a separate 'area', etc. Also, the whole map is turned 90 degrees for some reason, which also complicates things.