A shameless plug for what I consider my best map

[Brad_tilf]

I'm not going to lie - I think my map Bloodworks is one of the best maps - ever. I know for a fact it is the best map I ever personally produced with Mitnal being about 1% off from that and that is only because I believe the gameplay in Bloodworks is superior - sort of a decision I made on purpose because I wanted to show off what could be done with 3d in a 2d engine in Mitnal more than challenge uber doomers. So ya, I'm putting in this shameless plug because if you HAVEN'T played either of these maps, then I think you've missed out on a couple of great maps. You can feel free to disagree, of course, and I will respect your opinion if you disagree, but I stand by my assertion - NO ONE has take 3d effects to that degree in a map (to my knowledge) except for The Eternal Carrot and even that sits in the shadows in comparison. So, please, download them - use RISEN3D for the best effects, and let me know what you think!
As an aside - there is one other map that I felt showcased my mapping skills towards the end of my map creating career just about 7 years ago - that was The Hub. Again - looks PHENOMENAL in Risen3d and I tried something different in that map that I didn't do in either Bloodworks OR Mitnal - I set it up so that creatures would materialize randomly from an off map sector and so that it plays out differently every single time. Something a little different - difficult to set up but totally fun to do. I got the idea from another map - done somewhat differently, but I think it had something to do with the creatures materializing under a crushing door and turning them into ghosts which then could not be killed - cool map, whatever it was. Here's a pic from Mitnal. I hope you enjoy the maps.

[Seele00TextOnly]

Hi I just went and downloaded Bloodworks off idgames and I must say, I don't understand how you could boast so thoroughly about the gameplay in that map. First off at least half the comments on the idgames upload complain about the gameplay, second off it's just downright shoddy.

The player gets stuck on just about everything as there's detail clutter lining all the cramped areas, there isn't anywhere near enough ammo for the monster count, there are places I've found where one will be forever impossible to proceed if one doesn't do exactly what you expect of them at the right moment. Hit a switch or what you think might be a switch that reveals a green armor alcove with another switch behind it? Hope you were holding forward and not trying to duck away to dodge the projectiles from the monsters you don't have ammo to kill, because that switch now inaccessible! Approaching a gate door while on a midtex bridge, keep holding forward or you won't be able to get in or the scripted actions won't line up somehow (I don't even understand that one).

I also found 2 stuck Imps near where that gate broke for me, near where there is eventually that 4 switch pillar.

I didn't see anything in the files about jumping, if that was expected of these situations then I guess I would have to half apologize for the broken situations I mention. But still the gameplay is undoubtedly not all that and a bag of chips.

Mitnal
I just finished this map and it's by far superior to Bloodworks in every way, to basically being a decent-ish map. Hard to believe it's the same creator, or moreso that said creator places Bloodworks even close to the same league as it. Don't sell yourself short like that.

Did find the 3 Revenants near the Yellow Key to be either deaf or stuck and easily picked off; also a stuck Imp on the bridge near the Red Key. No other bugs really; several annoyingly inescapeable pits but I guess Doom did that on occasion too.

Edit: Ah I see my update was at the same time as your reply heh.

[Brad_tilf]

You are completely entitled to your opinion. The only "jumping" I can think of involves another map but yes, the balance of weaponry/ammo to monsters is VERY finely balanced and is designed to make it VERY difficult to get through. That was sort of the point. As for Mitnal - if you played it. Take a look around. That map was designed to not be difficult - with plenty of ammo/health bonuses lying around in various places. It was designed to showcase the 3d abilities that could be accomplished with Doom/Doom 2 without needing to resort to specific ports. IE - they will play just as well with Zdoom as Legacy, or Risen3d. As far as I know, Risen 3d is STILL the only GL port that will display those maps correctly. But hey, thanks for playing. Sorry you don't like cramped surroundings or really tight ammo/health maps. Not everyone does. Quite understandable - they create a more highly challenge quotient than open maps which give you lots of "wiggle" room and strafing room - something that I definitely did NOT want in Bloodworks.

[Vermil]

Doomsday and GZDoom can both, near perfectly, render Bloodworks these days.

[BaronOfStuff]

Brad_tilf said:

I'm not going to lie - I think my map Bloodworks is one of the best maps - ever.

Are you a comedian? Average at best affair with irritating navigation and unfun combat. Gameplay flows like a brick with little or no room to avoid incoming projectiles, and constant snagging on decorative objects only lowers impressions.

A novelty "style over substance" showcase for faux-3D effects.

[Deleted_Account]

Bloodworks is the BEST map ever released for Doom. A lot of work and effort went into this, clearly the author deserves the recognition from Dooomworld. I sincerely hope this map wins a Cacoward, specifically a Special Award - Lifetime Achievement. This blows Doom II the Way id Did out of the water.

[Csonicgo]

Bloodworks said:

*FFFFHHHSHSSHHHHH*

Seriously that noise is terrible. It made me feel sick.

[Brad_tilf]

Ya, it was tough to come up with a good sound but, hey, nothing can be perfect! lol

[Marnetmar]

If Rick Rubin made a Doom map, this is what it would be.

[ReFracture]

Oh hey Bob! I remember play testing some of those maps through emails YEARS ago.

This will be a trip down memory lane.

[Brad_tilf]

What was your username back then?
That WAS a LONG time ago

[ReFracture]

It was my (now defunct) email address phyco3069@yahoo.com I was about 12 years old lol. I wish I could dug up the emails.

I remember telling you one of the maps was crashing with Doom 95, then you pointed out ZDoom 1.22. What a huge jump in quality that was.

Good times.

[Brad_tilf]

I remember that email address (vaguely). Didn't you make a couple of maps back then?

[ReFracture]

I aspired but my attention span and excitement to play the existing mapsets available (holy crap Alien Vendetta) consumed my Doom time. So no, never released anything. I have a directory of levels I started but never really went anywhere.

[plums]

That waterfall (bloodfall?) sound make Bloodworks almost unplayable for me, and I had to replace it with a blank sound. After that it was a decent map. Very cramped gameplay that was tight on ammo, not my favourite way to play, but it wasn't terrible and the map was short enough that it was tolerable. The architecture does look very 3D though I noticed at least one HOM and some of the pseudo-3D bridges seemed a bit glitchy. Also the bloodspray animated texture was a little ugly, especially since it was repeated so much and with such regularity. The starting area looks quite awesome and some of the other spots are great too, but cool 3D tricks alone aren't enough to sell me on a Doom level. Still not bad. Will check out Mitnal later.

EDIT: Mitnal was much more fun, I agree with Seele00TextOnly that I don't see why you place the gameplay of Bloodworks over it. It wasn't as hard, but the challenge in Bloodworks comes from ammo starvation/cramped fighting/hidden enemies, none of which are terribly fun except when used sparingly IMHO. Anyhow I liked it quite a bit, though some of the 3D stuff looks kind of odd and serves no function other than to say "look, it's 3D! wow!".

[zap610]

Bloodworks is definitely one of the worst maps I ever played. It was super cramped, randomly textured, and super cramped. I'm guessing you are saying it's "the best map ever" just to get people to try it while knowing full well it's terrible. I mean it worked, I tried it. And why is there a picture of Bill Nye? I mean- Okay I can understand why there is a picture of Bill Nye, never mind. But really you're crazy if you are happy with your map.

[mrthejoshmon]

The webpage for bloodworks is so retro, it even has one of the random little .gif images I usually associate with 90's URL's

[Doomkid]

zap610 said:

Bloodworks is definitely one of the worst maps I ever played. It was super cramped, randomly textured, and super cramped. I'm guessing you are saying it's "the best map ever" just to get people to try it while knowing full well it's terrible. I mean it worked, I tried it. And why is there a picture of Bill Nye? I mean- Okay I can understand why there is a picture of Bill Nye, never mind. But really you're crazy if you are happy with your map.

I had more fun reading this review than actually playing the map, not sure what that says.. Maybe I was just put off by the "best evar" claim. I played bloodworks before, but reading this thread got me to try it again, so I suppose I fell for the trick. Pretty much agree with everyone else here, "It was OK, but not awesome."

[mrthejoshmon]

I played the map.

I liked it... But then again I like the "Gamarra's soul story" series so what the hell do I know about wads?

Oh and I found a stuck imp:

[TimeOfDeath]

Hey Seele00TextOnly, are you gonna finish that impossible map? I'm interested in it for serious, not being a dick.

[Seele00TextOnly]

TimeOfDeath said:

Hey Seele00TextOnly, are you gonna finish that impossible map? I'm interested in it for serious, not being a dick.

This is hardly an appropriate thread for that, but sadly the Incompletable Maps Project proved to live up to its name. I had a couple different hard drive failures soon after its initiation that threw me off course enough that I lost all inspiration for it.

[schwerpunk]

Brad_tilf said:

http://www.doomwadstation.net/mitnal/mitnal1.jpg

Hey, not really familiar with Bloodworks (sounds interesting, if overhyped (in this thread)), but just wanted to mention that this is a sweet little screenshot. I don't usually like high gamma shots, but the contrasts on this are really nice. Kind of reminds RGBI (or whatever old-timey) graphics on old computer monitors. Almost make it look like a still from some slide-show style dungeon crawling adventure game, hehe.

Anyway, it's good to be proud of your creations. I think it's natural to think that the map you've put the most effort into is some sort of [misunderstood] masterpiece. I felt the same way about one of my earlier attempts. I'm almost glad I lost it in a hdd malfunction before I could share it with the internet - I'm not sure I could've bourne criticisms against it elegantly.

EDIT: used the wrong 'bourne' - i r gud at englis

[Brad_tilf]

I don't mind the criticism. The guy who got the HOM - don't know what port but that's the first time that ever came up. I get that some people don't like tight maps and that's fine too. It's not too everyone's liking. Some people don't like quake style textured maps. We all have our preferences. But at the time it was released - OH So many years ago, nobody was putting 3d to effect like that and there were bound to be glitches here and there. Sometimes they show up - sometimes not. It's not science. lol. but for those who DO like a fight - with bare minimum of ammo and health - aka as a challenge, and enjoy the tight quarters face to face fighting - not to mention that Caco's and other flying creatures can literally come at you from anywhere - I think those are the folks that might appreciate it the most. As for the comment about Mitnal - Yup - I designed it to showcase what COULD be accomplished with 3d and lighting - pretty much the entire point, actually. The gameplay was infinitely easier compared to Bloodworks and it was designed with esthetics over gameplay in mind. Not that it was "easy" but your average doomer with some decent skills would do alright in that map without TOO much difficulty.

[BaronOfStuff]

Brad_tilf said:

But at the time it was released - OH So many years ago, nobody was putting 3d to effect like that and there were bound to be glitches here and there.

Oh yeah? While it may not be as needlessly saturated with midtextures, all of these bridges function just fine.

[Tarnsman]

So I played this map and it um sure is a thing. I had no problem with ammo or difficulty. I did have a problem with the atrocious layout and cramped playing area which instead of adding to difficulty and pressuring the player, just makes the map not fun to move through. The blood fall mid texture is hilariously awful. But above all else the most confusing thing about this 'magnum opus' is the fact that it's roughly 1:30 long. Its like if Stairway to Heaven was only 15 seconds long and those entire 15 seconds were just Robert Plant screaming while smashing a glass table.

[schwerpunk]

Funny, I thought this one would be right up Tarnsman's alley. ;P

Anyway, the wad is sitting on my desktop. I'll get around to it someday...

P.S. I actually like the pre css-looking website. Gives me a nice nostalgia kick. The red borders seem to mess up on my bowser, though.

[baronofheck82]

Brad_tilf said:

What was your username back then?
That WAS a LONG time ago

Bloodworks' idgames date says it's 2/11/03 (eleven years ago tomorrow no doubt). It hasn't been THAT long ago. You make it sound like it was centuries ago :)

[j4rio]

I liked it. Fuck the haters.

[Darch]

I enjoyed it. People are hating this so much because author's "one-of-the-best-maps-ever" attitude, which this also isn't. Maybe if it was released in 1994... but this is from 2003, there were many better wads around already. Anyway, I thought this was a pretty decent map, I even liked the sense of immersion provided by the water sound. No problem with layouts either, I didn't even get lost, as always. Maybe I was expecting something much more cramped after the commentaries.

[Xaser]

Huh, is there even a download link on the Bloodworks page? All that's listed is a bunch of old port versions for some reason. 'Course it's on /idgames I hear, but having no link to it is quite an oddity.