Difference between -fast and Nightmare!

[Terra-jin]

I've been playing UV with -fast and -respawn (and double ammo for good measure), patting myself on the back that I can do Nightmare. However, in this thread, they say that Nightmare also removes the 8-tic reaction time of the monsters.

Is this true? I've tested it out on ZDoom (E1), but couldn't really see any difference. Is this true for vanilla Doom?

Would this make Nightmare significantly harder?

PS: I've also learned that crushing a monster's corpse will prevent it from ever respawning again :O it's amazing how you can learn new things about a game that's two decades old!

[Patrol1985]

Yes, there is a difference between UV -fast and nightmare in terms of monster reaction time.

By the way - how do you turn "double ammo" on with UV? Can you do it with some parameter or is it restricted to source ports (because I was asking about vanilla)?

[Zed]

Terra-jin said:

I've been playing UV with -fast and -respawn (and double ammo for good measure), patting myself on the back that I can do Nightmare. However, in this thread, they say that Nightmare also removes the 8-tic reaction time of the monsters.

Is this true? I've tested it out on ZDoom (E1), but couldn't really see any difference. Is this true for vanilla Doom?

Yes, I think that's correct. A good example is Hell Revealed, MAP18.

PS: I've also learned that crushing a monster's corpse will prevent it from ever respawning again :O it's amazing how you can learn new things about a game that's two decades old!

As I understand it, as long as there is a monster corpse (a thing that can be "replaced"), it can be resurrected, regardless if it was crushed or not.

EDIT: What I mean is that, when using -respawn or playing on Nightmare, the game will remove the corpse (crushed or not) and replace it with a new one in the monster's original location. In the case of Arch Vile resurrection, they will obviously be resurrected on the spot, but crushed monsters will be resurrected as ghosts. That's why Pain Elementals can only be resurrected as ghosts.

[myk]

Terra-jin said:
PS: I've also learned that crushing a monster's corpse will prevent it from ever respawning again :O it's amazing how you can learn new things about a game that's two decades old!

The original behavior is that crushed corpses are resurrected as "ghost monsters" that retain some attributes from the crushed thing, so they can only be hurt by area-based damage, monster hand-to-hand attacks and some rare occurrences. Some newer engines may remove this bug or behavior by not having the crushed monsters get resurrected.

[Terra-jin]

myk said:

The original behavior is that crushed corpses are resurrected as "ghost monsters" that retain some attributes from the crushed thing, so they can only be hurt by area-based damage, monster hand-to-hand attacks and some rare occurrences. Some newer engines may remove this bug or behavior by not having the crushed monsters get resurrected.

Ah yes, ghost monsters. Cool bug.

What I meant however, was respawning. Apparently, crushed monsters do not respawn. So theoretically, you could lure every monster under a door / crusher and empty out a map on Nightmare.

Zed said:

EDIT: What I mean is that, when using -respawn or playing on Nightmare, the game will remove the corpse (crushed or not) and replace it with a new one in the monster's original location.

Hmmmm... I've tested this on ZDoom, and crushed corpses seem to persist, whereas normal corpses or gibbed corpses are eventually respawned. Perhaps this is unique to ZDoom..?

Patrol1985 said:

Yes, there is a difference between UV -fast and nightmare in terms of monster reaction time.

By the way - how do you turn "double ammo" on with UV? Can you do it with some parameter or is it restricted to source ports (because I was asking about vanilla)?

I never realised this. Is there a command line option or something that can change monster reaction time? Something like -noreactiontime?
It does seem a little strange to me... why wouldn't the faster reaction time be included in -fast monsters? Seems like something that -fast would encompass. Odd (but cool in a way) that this feature is unique to Nightmare.

As for the double ammo, ZDoom has an option for this in the menu. For vanilla, I don't think it's possible.

[BaronOfStuff]

Terra-jin said:

Apparently, crushed monsters do not respawn. So theoretically, you could lure every monster under a door / crusher and empty out a map on Nightmare.

It's a ZDoom thing. Vanilla (and I assume most other ports) will still allow crushed monsters to respawn. Try it:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/8b6yp5jpdrp9493/crushtest.wad

[Da Werecat]

Terra-jin said:

It does seem a little strange to me... why wouldn't the faster reaction time be included in -fast monsters?

Probably an oversight.

[Gez]

Terra-jin said:

What I meant however, was respawning. Apparently, crushed monsters do not respawn. So theoretically, you could lure every monster under a door / crusher and empty out a map on Nightmare.

Full explanation of why it's this way here.

[MajorRawne]

Rather than playing with -fast and -respawn, then creating a dehacked patch to change monster reaction times (as mentioned in the other thread)...

Why not just play on Nightmare?

[BaronOfStuff]

MajorRawne said:

Rather than playing with -fast and -respawn, then creating a dehacked patch to change monster reaction times (as mentioned in the other thread)...

Why not just play on Nightmare?

Because cheat codes.

[duh]

[Fernito]

BaronOfStuff said:

Because cheat codes.

Assuming the OP is playing with ZDoom, that's not an issue.

[BaronOfStuff]

In turn making the dehacked patch entirely redundant too. Wonderful.

[Terra-jin]

MajorRawne said:

Rather than playing with -fast and -respawn, then creating a dehacked patch to change monster reaction times (as mentioned in the other thread)...

Why not just play on Nightmare?

A valid question! In ZDoom, you can toggle respawning monsters on or off, but this only works on UV. I use this feature to tweak the gameplay a bit. Here's how I prefer to play:

The game begins at UV -fast -respawn. The objective is to reach the exit, only after I've collected all items and visited all secret areas to spice up the challenge. This phase is all hectic and crazy.
When I finally do reach the exit, I turn off respawning so I can clean out the level at my leisure and survey the carnage I wrought. The calm, calculated gameplay of this phase feels like a nice reward for surviving the Nightmare. This way, things at least seem remotely fair.

I do still have to find a way to include the reduced monster reaction time. That way, the first phase will be a pure Nightmare experience.

PS: Thanks BaronOfStuff & Gez, that explains it.