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Tarnsman

Final Doom The Way id Did

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Marcaek said:

Dear everyone: please stop testing in ZDoom. I don't just mean for this project, some high profile releases recently were compromised by bad testing and after all this time it's disappointing to see this still happens.


What if one tests with Doom or Doom (Strict) compatibility?

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It's best to just load up Chocolate Doom and UV Max the map (play with IDDQD on and just IDFA BFG everyone if playing in Chocolate Doom is a bridge too far for you), there are a lot of vanilla specific crap that testing in other ports will miss like merged sectors not lowering properly.

Make sure you can get 100% kills and 100% secrets in vanilla and exit the map.

P.S. if you don't see a submission of yours in the OP, please tell me, I try to catch every new map but sometimes I miss it.

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esselfortium said:

The trouble is that, especially when we're talking about vanilla compatibility in particular...

Ok, yeah that makes a lot of sense. I'm sorry if I sounded confrontational before, having it broken down like that was very helpful and I will definitely be testing these types of maps in chocolate doom in the future.

@Tarnsman, my stuff is all up there, although Waste is just a general episode 1 map and doesn't have to go in the map01 slot.

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Glaice said:

What if one tests with Doom or Doom (Strict) compatibility?


Even beyond the game-breaking stuff (visiplanes, etc.!), (G)ZDoom is different from the classic-emulating ports in a lot of ways. Movement over floors is a lot different, for one thing, and any sources of micro height variation (stairs, details, etc. as opposed to ledges and stuff) should be examined in a lower port to make sure they aren't very annoying. There have been limit removing and Boom-compatible maps that range from very irritating to unplayable in the lowest compatible ports for it because they were tested almost exclusively in (G)ZDoom. There are a lot of other small changes and I'm not even sure what all of them are because I mostly play in prBoom+.

Hmm...

Platform is easier in (G)ZDoom for simpler reasons that the player doesn't go sliding all over stairs and floor bumps.

The player moves a bit faster too, which makes certain jumps easier to make. (A bit less relevant: Some jumps are harder to make, again, because the player's feet are glueier. This SR50 jump doesn't work in (G)ZDoom, because the player doesn't go sliding over the gap the same way.)

Flying monsters disperse differently in (G)ZDoom, so even with infinite height off, your caco/PE setups won't play the same way -- they'll likely be easier with classic behavior. (Although this is a lot more likely to make a setup designed for classic ports harder in (G)ZDoom than to have deleterious effects the other way around ... Sunlust map25 and map30 come to mind!)

(G)ZDoom fixes that annoying coding error whereby the player can't slide along two-sided impassable linedefs, so those can inadvertently end up being annoying in classic-emulating ports.

(G)ZDoom fixes elastic collisions, I believe, so you might miss hotspots for it (usually in relatively tight spaces with abstract angles) if you only test there.

That's what I know. The main thing is that (G)ZDoom smooths out player comfort in ways the 'target port' often won't, meaning a map might end up being less fun to simply move around in when played in the less fancy ports.

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Small map updates;
Narthex: fixed stuck monsters, all blocking decorations moved, slight monster tweaks
Waste: fixed more stuck monsters, more blocking decorations moved, late map slightly more forgiving, fixed several few visplane overflows (boy was that fun to learn about). Should be overflow free now!

Whoops, sorry. I guess the links on the front page will have to be updated again now that I put up those fixes.

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I made another map, Dario-style, which I think would work well in E3 (or possibly E2).

The Testament

uSbQvui.png

edit: super quick map update

Edited by AD_79 : fixed link

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Combinebobnt said:

nice project hope there are 31 plutonia maps and 1 map tnt+masterlevels combo. also that it does the .... f word.... (finish)

Speaking of Master Levels, someone ought to do a Sverre, Jim Flynn, Dr. Sleep, or Chris Klie map for the TNT project. That would be awesome, especially when Sverre (better if he does some maps in his style) and Jim Flynn would have been very likely to have made TNT maps, having been Team TNT members and all.

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A couple of FDAs for the two previous maps

F-Stranded: RK ambush feels very tame, a lot more so than the group of chaingunners at the YK for instance. I was kind of like, "That's it?" I got to the BK fight with 200%/200% so was able to handle that fight in a very blase way (tanking damage in the nukage). I also think that you have the Plutonia monster count in mind, but the layouts are so spacious that they end up feeling slightly sparse in places.

Testament: Fun map. I was basically swimming in ammo (both shells and rockets), and would have been even without the infighting here and there. Many traps are telegraphed on the automap, which is probably not the best thing since that pretty much defangs them (most of them -- the chaingunners at the switch are the exception). I noticed some solid damaging floor, a square in the blood where the PR sits.

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AutoDoom FDAs for the following maps. 2-player coop. Use Final Doom compatibility. ZIP download here.

MAP01 (TNT1.WAD)

Feels like a homage to original MAP01 because of the impossible coop Cyberdemon in MAP01 and the former marine lift-like setup near the exit. It's also rather wide open but okay with that. Kinda reminds me more of Hell Revealed 2 though.

MAP02 (BATTERY2.WAD)

Oh yeah I love this one. Feels right on spot with TNT and the Master Levels. I really liked the Pain Elemental encounter and generally the traps.

MAP01 (TNTROTT-1A.WAD): desynced demo, sorry (Eternity's problem). If you want to see it anyway, here it is. It desyncs right after Green (me) dies.

But I needed the guidance of the bot to find the blue key, because it wasn't obvious (I thought I have to dive into the slime to find it).

MAP01 (BURIEDV3.WAD)

Nice dark map, kinda bare though, and very similar to previous maps overall. There's tutti-frutti on the crates in the depot near the start. And the cacodemon/pain elemental trap is an obvious homage to the Human BBQ similar trap.

MAP07 (RADIOTOWER_V5.WAD)

Feels samey after the previous playthroughs, but I like the teleporter setup in it.

MAP01 (ENDPOINT.WAD)

I'm beginning to think that you associate TNT Evilution maps with mapping tricks and glitches. The final bridge can be cleared of slime but doesn't lose the damage. This level again feels too similar to previous maps.

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AD_79 said:

I made another map, Dario-style, which I think would work well in E3 (or possibly E2).

The Testament

http://i.imgur.com/uSbQvui.png

edit: super quick map update


Cool map, perhaps a little complex for a plutonia style map for what concern layout and secrets, usually the secrets in plutonia are very easy to find; I finished the map with 102/107 kills and 3/4 secrets looking for the remaining monsters and secret for some minutes before exit. Other than that an enjoyable and good looking map that would fit well for late e2 or e3.

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Wow, yeah, Testament is a great map. The only thing I can think of is it seemed a little secret-heavy for Plutonia. Also that raising bridge puzzle stumped me for a fair bit, but I might just be dumb.

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It might be a bit too secret heavy, sure, but keep in mind that Dario occasionally placed a decent amount of secrets in his maps (Caged has 4, Baron's Lair has 6(!), Impossible Mission has 4, Bunker has 4). So I don't think it's too out of place, heh.

(Though now that I think about it, yeahhh the secrets are probably a little tougher than the average Plutonia secret. I'll see what I can do about that!)

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Despite having a bunch of more important stuff to do, I couldn't resist cooking up another map. Milo E2.

High Noon

W6aiGDk.png

edit: found a cool vile jump, modified the map slightly so you couldn't break the map after pulling it off

Edited by AD_79 : fixed link

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AD_79 said:

Despite having a bunch of more important stuff to do, I couldn't resist cooking up another map. Milo E2.

High Noon

http://i.imgur.com/W6aiGDk.png

edit: found a cool vile jump, modified the map slightly so you couldn't break the map after pulling it off


Good map. It has the 'plutonia feel'. I managed to complete it on my first playthrough thanks to luck on the first vile + revenants ambush which almost butchered me. The last indoor room (with the yellow door) is very cool :)

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There are two possible HOMs: (1224, 3888) and (1896, 1968). And one “Player 2 start” should be actually “Player 3 start”.

 

In my opinion, having one cyberdemon in a MAP01 slot, for any non-slaughter map, is a bit exaggerated, unless there is a creative way (one secret teleport to telefrag, for example) to kill it.

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20 minutes ago, Litrivin said:

In my opinion, having one cyberdemon in a MAP01 slot, for any non-slaughter map, is a bit exaggerated, unless there is a creative way (one secret teleport to telefrag, for example) to kill it.

It's actually really easy to get the Cyberdemon to infight with the Revenants across the way. Makes the Cyberdmon mostly trivial.

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I made the map for E1, but not specifically Map01, I just made it in Map01 for convenience. I fixed up the other things though, I can't believe both of those HOMs slipped by me when I tested the level. The download link has been updated.

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A quick observation regarding Plutonia's use of boss monsters...

 

Map05 (Milo) - Mastermind in the southeastern room held by blocking lines

Map06 (Dario) - Roaming Cyber in the final fight

Map12 (Milo) - Cyber on the RK platform

Map15 (Milo) - Occupies the platform that blocks a path to the exit

Map19 (Milo) - Cyber in the cubby hole that houses the exit bar switch

Map24 (debatable) - Sniper Cyber who overlooks the main room

Map27 (Milo) - again, occupies the platform that blocks a path to the exit

Map29 (Milo) - Cyber on his little island

Map30 (Milo) - platform Cyber blocking the boss brain

 

So it would appear that the boss enemies are basically used as either doors with health or snipers, almost exclusively used by Milo and in his case pretty much immobile. I hope i didn't miss any other examples cause this would appear to be a pretty slam dunk mapping guideline. I have deliberately ignored the secret maps cause they are kind of a law unto themselves in Plutonia, in my opinion.

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Nodes of that map for TNT MAP01 slot need be rebuilt. PrBoom-Plus reports this:

 

P_GetNodesVersion: using normal BSP nodes
Too big or not supported REJECT overflow has been detected. Desync or crash can occur soon or during playback with the vanilla engine in case you're recording demo.
You can change PrBoom behaviour for this overflow through in-game menu.
P_LoadReject: REJECT too short (0<1327) - padded

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I've been wanting to do this for so long now! What mapping format will we use or is it whatever? Can we use Boom?

Edited by UAC-Janitor

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I completely overhauled Tiger, my Map01 Milo submission. It was getting pretty painful to look at, so while some of the basic ideas and setpieces intact, most of it is changed beyond recognition. I'm kind of glad the original didn't get discussed too much as this version is much improved, in my opinion.

 

New version:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7UjVRGUGknvNDN0MzVCOXJZeTA/view?usp=sharing

 

Y1bwCD5l.jpg

 

HagME0V.jpg

 

 

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