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KiiiYiiiKiiiA

TNT: Revilution . 2 small to medium maps wanted

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So, I have midi request: If someone can make music in similar fashion of Sinister (E2M6: Halls of Damned), I would be really pleased. (I don't have proper adjectives to describe of what I want from music, so maybe this would pass as an example.)

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I almost feel like the overseer with a whip with mini guitars at the tip, given how quickly weve gone past 35 midis.

Given the fact that a lot of the team seems to hate the placeholder system, I probably have to drop the entire midi draft and make it a free-for-all grab bag. I just got back into the project and I already feel drained. It'll utterly kill the music progression theme I wanted, but im putting my foot down on E2 at least being dark/creepy. Three or four of the maps are already styled this way, with two having tracks that match. Megamur is looking for this theme too for E2.

I feel a lot of tracks are going to start being rejected now. I hope any that are find homes in other projects. I always find it tragic when someone's modding work goes to waste. I like practically every track so far, so the thought is painful.

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Okay cool, just wanted to clear up some confusion. It is kind of amazing how many tracks were made for this project!

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Doomhuntress said:

holy balls, i have 11 tracks in this thing now?


You outmidi'd me >:(

CorSair: I might be able to make something, but it might not be for a while.

oh and Ragnor: While you said you don't like people's work going to waste, I'd rather you didn't put Death's Chimes in the music WAD. The only decent part is the ending and I'm keeping it in 30's track anyway. The rest is just a bastardised Space Storm

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Eris: No rush, pal. I believe in you. :)

And Ragnor, it is probably because some of the maps are unfinished, chances are that it simply doesn't work. What you can't see... (On the related note, Bucket's Night Train could probably fit, whereas Doomhuntress' Arcane feels too fast for the Map21. Good track anyway. But once I get my maps done, (probably in next year if the pace is to believe on my part. :P ) you can see if the music fits in Map20.)

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Eris Falling said:

You outmidi'd me >:(

actually, we're tied for the highest amount of MIDIs in the Originals folder right now, which incidentally is 11. :p

it's just a matter of what tracks the mappers choose to pick for the project, barring the locked spots. but yes, it feels kind of good to say i have the most tracks in the current revision of the music wad. :3

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TRCPMUSV6 is a thing. Aside from the project leaders, who else needs it? It does use the much-hated placeholders, and will remain so till midis are claimed for various slots. Changes are the move of Crazy Castle Killer to slot 11, by Scifista's request, Tell No Tales to 25, and the inclusion of Doomhuntress' Your Last Regret in slot 10, Avec Vous in 16 (I dont know if its actually a WIP or not, but it does loop somewhat. E2 is now complete, Enter The Ragnorian not withstanding.) and IDWYTL in 26.

Only slots that are empty is map 8, 14 and 31. I didn't include Death's Chimes as a temporary stand-in for 8 via Eris' request.

Kyka, you can bundle it with the maps and textures for the testers and mappers from now on if you want. Make sure they know the list is a placeholder list and not set in stone.

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Is it broken right away or pretty far in? I loaded it up just now and didnt here anything wrong, but I didnt listen to it in full.

30 sounded a bit off at the beginning, but I guess its a moot point brining that up since its getting a revision. Still, asode from the high pitched guitar (please dont use it in the new version, that particular instrument tends to hurt my ears whenever people use it in midis, besides, it contrasts with the spinechilling effect of the heavier guitars that gave it the evil vibe I love so much (and still get)

Anyway, many of these midis feel better ingame than in a media player. Sometimes the true value of them isnt appreciated till your neck deep in demons, blasting your way through. I have a new appreciation for Map 2's placeholder theme due to this. I also fully tested it and found not one issue, aside from the SSG existing. I dont think it should be in the early maps outside of very tricky secrets, we all know most players use it 90% of the time. I thoroughly enjoyed just using the standard SG for that map. I would also suggest moving/adding a radsuit for the journey back to the beginning after getting the red key; Sure, there is a secret one, but its possible to be stuck unable to progress due to low health. I had this issue on map 19, and had to cheat to finish the level (or restart and lose an hour or more)

Other than that, its pretty much perfect in my eyes. It will need a name change though ;]

EDIT: Oh yeah, Kyka, you'll need to change the start of Map 3. Since it no longer connects to Subterraneal Magnitude, those starting pods are now extremely out of place and confusing.

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Ragnor said:

...Avec Vous in 16 (I dont know if its actually a WIP or not, but it does loop somewhat.

it isn't a WIP. it's a kind of cover based off of the Darius song "avec vous", and the length of the original song should match with the MIDI i made. of course, it'd probably sound more complete if the instruments i can use weren't so tinny, but anyway.

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Ragnor said:

Is it broken right away or pretty far in? I loaded it up just now and didnt here anything wrong, but I didnt listen to it in full.

30 sounded a bit off at the beginning, but I guess its a moot point brining that up since its getting a revision. Still, asode from the high pitched guitar (please dont use it in the new version, that particular instrument tends to hurt my ears whenever people use it in midis, besides, it contrasts with the spinechilling effect of the heavier guitars that gave it the evil vibe I love so much (and still get)


It's only on the guitar solo. That's the overdriven guitar at about 6 minutes in. No other errors with any of my tracks AFAIK, except for the fact that the shores aren't panned left and right on II, which kind of defeats the point of them being the only instrument for about 20 seconds.
Though since I've got Sekaiju as a secondary MIDI editor, I can probably fix that by using panning events.

The problem at the start of 30 was one I brought up earlier. Seems to jump between normal tempo and double tempo randomly, but it shouldn't be an issue in the new track.

EDIT: It's annoying there isn't an alternative way of checking these errors. Having to wait 6 minutes just to check something is a pain in the ass.
DOUBLE EDIT: There's also a tempo issue with 32 at about 14 seconds in. Seems to be the same thing that happens in 30, but this is the only occurence in 32's track. Still clueless.
TRIPLE EDIT: Possibly another instance of bad tempo very close to the end, on the violin part.

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Eris Falling said:

It's only on the guitar solo. That's the overdriven guitar at about 6 minutes in. No other errors with any of my tracks AFAIK, except for the fact that the shores aren't panned left and right on II, which kind of defeats the point of them being the only instrument for about 20 seconds.
Though since I've got Sekaiju as a secondary MIDI editor, I can probably fix that by using panning events.

The problem at the start of 30 was one I brought up earlier. Seems to jump between normal tempo and double tempo randomly, but it shouldn't be an issue in the new track.

EDIT: It's annoying there isn't an alternative way of checking these errors. Having to wait 6 minutes just to check something is a pain in the ass.
DOUBLE EDIT: There's also a tempo issue with 32 at about 14 seconds in. Seems to be the same thing that happens in 30, but this is the only occurence in 32's track. Still clueless.
TRIPLE EDIT: Possibly another instance of bad tempo very close to the end, on the violin part.

I'll give it a proper listen tomorrow. 6 minutes in is almost at the end of it, no wonder I didnt hear it. I was kind of expecting Human BBQ's level of broken after reading it was messed up.

Doomhuntress said:

it isn't a WIP. it's a kind of cover based off of the Darius song "avec vous", and the length of the original song should match with the MIDI i made. of course, it'd probably sound more complete if the instruments i can use weren't so tinny, but anyway.


Removed the WIP bit from the Originals folder. It'll stay in the music wad in slot 16 for now.

CorSair said:

And Ragnor, it is probably because some of the maps are unfinished, chances are that it simply doesn't work. What you can't see... (On the related note, Bucket's Night Train could probably fit, whereas Doomhuntress' Arcane feels too fast for the Map21. Good track anyway. But once I get my maps done, (probably in next year if the pace is to believe on my part. :P ) you can see if the music fits in Map20.)


I hoped you wouldnt mind The Night Train. I actually put that there wondering what you'd think of it. It's a nice bridge between the moody E2 atmosphere, and the upcoming E3 midis, and its faster heavier themes compared to the previous tracks also work as a good episode finisher. It's up to you in the end of course, but yeah, im not jut throwing these midis out randomly. A lot of thought goes into the placement, in the event the mapper doesn't choose a midi/leaves it to the leaders.

The Arcane was placed there as its a very refreshing change from the E2 themes, and it has that awesome demon breath effect to signify the crossing into hell. Ideally, I'd like something in 21 that really tells that youve crossed over into an industrial tech Hell. Your decision on what track is used comes first though, of course, especially since youve got both the 20 and 21 slots, often the most important maps in the whole wad. NO PRESSURE.

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@Ragnor.

I actually don't mind the placeholder system. It is not as if we can't make alterations in conjunction with the mappers as maps get done anyway.

(I confess I haven't heard all of the tracks yet. Bad Kyka)

But what I have heard has been really interesting and creative.

Awesome stuff, Midi people. :)

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Fellowzdoomer said:

So does exits\enterance need to somehow be in conjunction with the next level?


We haven't really discussed this.

Megamur and Ragnor. Thoughts?

My personal thought is just to leave the levels as they are, but if a few levels do link up like that, that is fine too.

But don't take that as final yet.

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If you want to link maps, its fine with me. On the other hand, if you do make a very special exit, try to work with the dude with the next slot to link them.

Map 3 starts in a bunch of pods; this is because when it was still part of Devilution, map 2 ended in a set of teleporters. As such, Map 2 needs a new exit, or map 3 needs the pods removed. Consistency is whats important, not linking for the sake of linking.

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Ragnor said:

If you want to link maps, its fine with me. On the other hand, if you do make a very special exit, try to work with the dude with the next slot to link them.

Map 3 starts in a bunch of pods; this is because when it was still part of Devilution, map 2 ended in a set of teleporters. As such, Map 2 needs a new exit, or map 3 needs the pods removed. Consistency is whats important, not linking for the sake of linking.


Yeah. I have thought about those pods at the start of map 3.

I was thinking of using them on 4 random maps throughout the mapset. For the 4 corners of the teleporter room.

But we can work on that later. :)

I have edited the first post with the latest MIDI updates.

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Can you edit the midi section and make it very clear that the list is a placeholder one and not final outside of the locked tracks? Its only final if nobody chooses a midi.

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Another thing, the mapping style bit should probably be updated to reflect our three episode themes, especially E2's darker creepy theme.

Standard TNT with the occasional hell artefact -> Dark, decrepit techbase -> Industrial technologically advanced hell

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KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:

We haven't really discussed this.

Megamur and Ragnor. Thoughts?

My personal thought is just to leave the levels as they are, but if a few levels do link up like that, that is fine too.

But don't take that as final yet.

I'm generally not too concerned about proper linking of levels. It's cool when it happens and enhances the feeling of a cohesive journey, but it's unnecessary and occasionally just impractical to implement. For instance: If the opening of the next map is so tight that it can't allow for a segment of the previous level's exit to be inserted; or if the next level seems to be a great distance away from the previous, in terms of visual themes.

Map23's ending might have to be altered a bit to flow into my opening for Meat Locker (if I ever finish the thing), but we'll see.

Ragnor said:

Another thing, the mapping style bit should probably be updated to reflect our three episode themes, especially E2's darker creepy theme.

Standard TNT with the occasional hell artefact -> Dark, decrepit techbase -> Industrial technologically advanced hell

This worries me particularly with Map05, which has a lot of Hell influence for such an early level. I almost wonder if it should be made harder and bumped up to E2. But that might be too much work for a detail the players might not really care about. :)

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I havent seen all of 5 yet (Had a quick look on that rental computer when I had it) but what I did see pleased me. As the base from Evilution E3 with hell gone and dissipated, there are still many remnants from it left behind, some dead, some still alive but dying. The E1 sky alone is made to give this sense (Thanks Kyka!) but its really cool to occasionally see it in the levels too.

I'll have to mention it in the mid E1 text break just to make sure the more story focused players understand.

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Well for the first time in like 4 years, I have no mapping to do.

Taking a mapping holiday.

(Though I wanna add that I will still be very much around for organisational stuff and all that for this project.)

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I might be restarting MAP14, progress is very slow, and I want to make sure I get this right: I played D2INO-22 recently. It was really boring.

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I think most people find thier own maps boring.

Only thing I found boring was the red key section, and thats just because you never could expand it like you planned to. Its still pretty amazing for a first published map, no matter how you look at it.

When I get my controller back I'll probably play through the rest of your megawad alongside Threshold of Pain SE when Im not testing TNTR stuff

No promises though, sometimes my willpower is weak and I dont finish wads >_>

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i should probably go back and fix my own tracks, as well. nothing special, just fixing up the errors in them, panning some of the tracks... i guess that technically puts them still in WIP stage, as i want to do-over and fix them for release?

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I wouldn't mind a finished and named "computers" while your at it. Theres no hurry though, Eris is pretty far away from finishing/starting his claimed tracks, thus the soundtrack will likely be complete when he's done, provided there arent further midi requests of course :p

I really am happy with the diversity we have with four midi composers btw, each of whom have a pretty diverse range of tracks.

My only true concern about Revilution so far, is the final boss. Not just because he's essentially my biggest contribution to the project (aside from the projects name of course, ha), but the sheer scope of what I envisioned. We need artwork and sounds for him, we need the piece of him that shows up from Map 14 onwards sorted out, we need a concept map that tests whether my ideas for him are even feasible, and so forth.

He was the second thing that was born out of this project's departure from Devilution, and the thing that got us all out of the post-Devilution depression and got us all inspired, so its the one thing I REALLY want to work above all.

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Ragnor said:

each of whom have a pretty diverse range of tracks.


lol
But no worry over 14 being restarted. I may have started it 3 months ago, but very little was done on it anyway.

As for The Catacombs, while it's too late for D2INO, that doesn't mean I'm done with them.

Spoiler

They'll be back with a boom.

Oh and I've still no idea on what's causing those glitches on MUS32. I'm done with exams though now, so hopefully I can get the wheel turning again.

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