Moonlight

[Doomkid]

Springy said:

Look no further, sunshine.

You beauty! :D

[plums]

OK, played the new version. I like the changes, and think the outdoor textures work better like this, though you missed one spot near the beginning: http://i.imgur.com/Cy8aEms.png

Airlock sounds are quite loud and startled me even though I knew one was coming. New sounds are much better than the old ones.

Hell area is better all around, though that's a lot of cacos around the yellow key. Were there that many before?

And since no one's brought it up yet: the music has grown on me, it still doesn't sound like "space music," whatever that might be, but it's a nice atmospheric track to go with the slower pace of map.

Tarnsman said:

Really draggy

Did you get through the whole thing? I agree it's slow to start off, but it definitely picks up as you go. I can see how it's too slow overall for some people, but I liked it.

[MegaTurtleRex]

I almost made it to the end I think, but I died :\

Really fun. Only two suggestions I can think of.

1 - It would look sex with Purple, Green, and Blue highlights.
2 - Tighter ammo budget. Some areas I felt I had too much ammo.

The music is really nice too.

[Gez]

Map is cool, though rather labyrinthine and cramped and eventually I got fed up with fighting hitscanner gangs in tight corridors.

Thread is awful, though.

[Gez]

And the map wasn't tested just with it, but also with ZDoom 2.7.1, so the point is moot. Testing with an old Skulltag and a new ZDoom allows to show that the map doesn't rely on idiosyncrasies from one version in particular.

Vanilla Doom is a buggy, outdated engine but people still routinely test their maps with it, so go figure.

[Marcaek]

Look meapineapple, I can keep going in circles about why I don't care what engine you use. It doesn't matter, I was just mentioning the possibility of having issues in a buggy engine nobody updated. If I responded too harshly to your post about "giving you shit" for it(I genuinely wasn't giving you shit, it was just honest advice you could take or leave) then I apologize. But I don't like that a minor comment on your choice of engines spurred hostility from you, either. If you want to ignore my advice go ahead, but until that happened and even afterward I was trying to help and avoid more of it as much as possible.

[meapineapple]

@Marcaek I haven't even been participating in the discussion anymore. You and others were indeed giving me shit about the port I used - it's a figure of speech and it was apt. I couldn't have imagined it being taken as hostility warranting a response such as "Get fucked". Along with one of the shallowest reviews of a map I've seen. You complained about the difficulty of finding where to go after the blue key - there were three different blue doors, it wouldn't have taken any effort. You made broad statements about a map you hadn't seen 10% of. You sank close to zero effort into it and gave largely useless feedback. Kind of an asshole thing to do, that.

@Tarnsman The palette wouldn't allow for a decently-colored Earth, I imagined a green one would be the next-best thing, would at least be recognizable. Which moon rock texture do you mean?

@Gez I might revise the first part of the map, up to the blue key. The cramped bits pretty much end once you've reached the second exterior area.

@plums Sometime soon I'll make the sounds a bit quieter. And I actually reduced the number of cacos there since your last playthrough. Did you change the difficulty to UV from anything else? That would have put in a few more.

@MegaTurtleRex I'm glad you enjoyed the music! I'll keep those things in mind.

[plums]

meapineapple said:

@plums Sometime soon I'll make the sounds a bit quieter. And I actually reduced the number of cacos there since your last playthrough. Did you change the difficulty to UV from anything else? That would have put in a few more.

Huh, weird. I played in UV both times. Maybe just because of the way I handled the fight the first time (ran away and shot from the outside) vs the second time (stay and fight) it seemed like a lot more.

BTW, if you use ZDoom you're not limited to the Doom palette at all, ZDoom can use 32-bit PNGs or 8-bit PNGs with any palette. It can sometimes look funny if you have lots of colours that don't match the Doom palette at all, or really high-res/high-colour images mixed in with the regular Doom textures, but for a sky it's often a good choice. I personally thought the planet looked OK as it is though, and the moon rock textures didn't bother me either.

[Marcaek]

Actually no, I did explore most of the layout and after finding in uninteresting eventually quit. I criticized what I played and then went back and observed the stuff I missed which didn't impress me either. I not once gave you "shit" about your use of a port and I'd like you to describe where I did so. I gave specific feedback on what I played and what I saw. The fact that you'd give me attitude about not completing the entire thing smacks of a sense of entitlement. I got bored, sorry if you took it personally, but I stated why.

[meapineapple]

@plums I didn't know that about the palette. Awesome.

@Marcaek You literally took a steaming shit on Skulltag, the proof is in the brown stains I still haven't been able to scrub out of it.

[Tarnsman]

meapineapple said:

@Marcaek You literally took a steaming shit on Skulltag, the proof is in the brown stains I still haven't been able to scrub out of it.

By saying it's outdated? That's not shitting on Skulltag, That's an objectively true statement. Zandronum LITERALLY IS Skulltag. Nothing has been changed that would remove features or make something that runs in Skulltag not run in the current version of Zandronum. Quit being retarded.

Also @Gez

Vanilla Doom is a buggy, outdated engine but people still routinely test their maps with it, so go figure.

Sorry but this isn't remotely the same thing. Testing your map in Skulltag is like testing your vanilla map in Doom 1.666 instead of 1.9.

[Marcaek]

meapineapple said:
@Marcaek You literally took a steaming shit on Skulltag, the proof is in the brown stains I still haven't been able to scrub out of it. [/B]

This isn't a link, it's another baseless accusation.

Considering I've been playing Skulltag from 96c until it was forked, It'd be pretty strange to just "shit on" something I owe a lot of good times to.

[meapineapple]

Hey, asshole mod who's removing posts because they civilly defend my preference. You know, instead of removing the ones aggressively criticizing it? I put a lot of time and a lot of effort into this map only to find the thread derailed and myself flamed, and you who's supposed to be responsible for keeping things in order only kicking the thing while it's down. I came to this forum expecting to get feedback regarding the maps I make, not to find myself struggling against this idiocy. So quit being so useless, will you?

[Marnetmar]

meapineapple said:

Hey, asshole mod who's removing posts because they civilly defend my preference. You know, instead of removing the ones aggressively criticizing it? I put a lot of time and a lot of effort into this map only to find the thread derailed and myself flamed, and you who's supposed to be responsible for keeping things in order only kicking the thing while it's down. I came to this forum expecting to get feedback regarding the maps I make, not to find myself struggling against this idiocy. So quit being so useless, will you?

Post preserved for posterity.

[plums]

Tarnsman said:

Sorry but this isn't remotely the same thing. Testing your map in Skulltag is like testing your vanilla map in Doom 1.666 instead of 1.9.

Or like in ZDoom 2.4 instead of the latest version. People do all of those things. And if you test in other versions/ports too, it literally doesn't matter at all.

meapineapple: I get why you're angry and I'm not saying you shouldn't be, but I don't think you're doing yourself any favours by arguing with people about ports (or the discussion that's evolved from those arguments) at all. I can't see how you're going to get anything whatsoever out of engaging with them. I've also never seen a time where calling a mod a useless asshole has helped someone, regardless of whether it's accurate or not.

Marcaek: From the very start of this thread you've come off as derisive and dismissive. Maybe that wasn't your intention but that's really how I've read it. If you can't figure out why meapineapple is giving you dismissive answers in return, I'd maybe suggest re-reading this thread from the beginning.

[Tarnsman]

At least with Zdoom you have shit that doesn't work unless played with previous versions. Testing in Skulltag literally does nothing that testing in Zandronum wouldn't.

[meapineapple]

You think useless asshole is bad, you might have seen it before I toned it down to something so kind. But I have better things to do with my time than tiptoe around ridiculous mods. If calling them out is going to cause problems then they can really just go fuck themselves.

I tested it with a port I like because it was convenient, and I also tested it with an up-to-date port. So what's the issue? It doesn't matter that I used Skulltag, and it doesn't matter that I like it or why I like it. What more is there to talk about? Sure, Zandronum is better by pretty much any standard. If nothing else it's certainly more recent. Does that satisfy? But that doesn't mean I used it for this map, and it doesn't mean I'm going to start using it, and it doesn't mean you had to take such issue with that.

[ClonedPickle]

I am legitimately curious as to why you like Skulltag more than Zandronum, though. Is it purely the name?

[meapineapple]

meapineapple said:

Skulltag is what I'm used to, that's all. It's what I was most often using back when it was still cool.

It's what I have installed, it's what DB is set up to use, it's the application icon I'm accustomed to seeing represent wad files, it's what I've been using on-and-off for years. Since I don't use it to play online I haven't got any good reason to change.

[Obsidian]

Heh, I started off with Skulltag too: a friend of mine recommended it to me when I got back into Doom a few years back. Nowdays I'm ZDooming of course.

[Sqrrt121]

SHhhhHHhhHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhHHHHHH. Stop arguing. Accept that Skulltag is Skulltag and Zandronum is Zandronum. Just because meapineapple wants to test in Skulltag doesn't mean you have to go anal on him. And just because Marcaek tells you that Skulltag is now outdated and has been replaced with Zandronum doesn't mean you have to rape him.

[MegaTurtleRex]

Zandronum is a pretty silly name though :P

[Gez]

Please put some switch with Door_Open(43, 64, 0) somewhere behind the door so when we go back to the first part of the map we can reopen it. The room with sectors 738 and 741 would make sense for this I think.

[Devalaous]

Meanwhile 40oz's pretty normal posts get scrubbed, and all the bullshit remains.

As for dumb port names, most of them are crap. Eternity and Doomsday are the only decent sounding names, with Zandronum being "almost" good. Skulltag however is around bottom tier for names..

[dew]

Ragnor said:

Meanwhile 40oz's pretty normal posts get scrubbed, and all the bullshit remains.

I love the passive-agressive, concerned citizen style of this post, haha. Sucks to not be the one making rules, eh? (ftr: I don't either, not here.)

[meapineapple]

Gez said:

Please put some switch with Door_Open(43, 64, 0) somewhere behind the door so when we go back to the first part of the map we can reopen it. The room with sectors 738 and 741 would make sense for this I think.

I know how much you guys love realism, but the reason they close is that otherwise the base interior would become exposed to the vacuum that is the surface.

[Vorpal]

The "Engine tested with" field in the various txt templates is just supplementary information for the person downloading the file (well, the entire text file is supplementary). It just basically translates into, "the author used this environment during construction, so it probably functions most properly under these conditions".

The "Engine tested with" isn't some kind of message to the author that they should be using the most up-to-date version of everything. Yes it is generally good practice to keep your software up to date, but some people prefer older versions of things (e.g. a lot of people use old versions of windows media player, due to all of its phone-back-to-hq behavior and automatic shenanigans in new versions, or old versions of paint shop pro due to interface rearrangements).

meapineapple made it clear early on that they weren't interested in upgrading that particular source port, and a bunch of people continue to impose their own preference for updated versions, despite meapineapple's stated non-interest in the whole thing.

So that's what this is really all about, not about one person being objectively wrong and another being objectively right, but about imposing your will where it is not wanted.

[fraggle]

My personal opinion is that it's kind of silly to be using Skulltag nowadays.

However, ultimately it's meapineapple's decision what he wants to use. The point has been made and nothing helpful is achieved by dragging the issue up over and over again. All you're doing is harassing him. Frankly he's done nothing to deserve the kind of angry vitriolic flames that have been thrown at him in this thread.

Consider this formal warning to drop the issue. Next person who brings it up gets losered. Your move.

[MegaTurtleRex]

Someone else mentioned the sound of those airlock doors being a bit jarring, I kinda agree. The airlock doors themselves you could probably do without, the first time I pressed the centre switch I backed up and closed myself out again :p Maybe you could make the space between them larger and use some of them as a trap, or just make one really thick door? A big ass door would give the impression you were holding off the atmosphere.

This was my favourite part of the map: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=239202812

It got really hectic and I had to hide under the bridge, the way you placed the monsters here was really fun.

[GreyGhost]

meapineapple said:

Skulltag is what I'm used to, that's all. It's what I was most often using back when it was still cool.

I was like that with Legacy for several years, and Amiga computers before that, but in due course something newer beckons.

MegaTurtleRex said:

A big ass door would give the impression you were holding off the atmosphere.

But you still need two for an airlock, I suppose the doors could be interlocked and automated to eliminate those slightly confusing switches.