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Jimmy

Jungle Spirits (Merry Christmas! Beta 3 is out :O)

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oh look I made maps for once :O



Requires the Plutonia IWAD.

Download (Beta 3)


I decided to put together a texture set and do some speedmaps with it as I was feeling unbearably creative. I also tried to make the maps interesting and non-linear, though they may have turned out a bit puzzly. Still in-progress, and has yet to be properly balanced and tested, but I think I have something presentable. :D

This will have more maps later on, maybe 12 or so. This beta contains 4.

Hope you enjoy!




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Umm... this was a bit underwhelming to be honest. You made Jenesis, so what are these large bare areas with very few monsters scattered around? I understand that maybe you wanted to make some easy adventure maps but then you might want to at least make them a lot prettier so that it would actually be exciting to explore the maps. They look way too simple and bare. I don't know, maybe I'm missing something but I don't really "get" this wad. Maybe such an ambitious project needs something more than quick speedmaps? I mean you've got a kinda cool visual style here with all these neat new textures, sprites, palette and stuff, but they are just wasted on uninteresting easy-peasy speedmaps... I'd like to see a little more serious project in this style.

edit: big hom on map01; map04 has some zero-tagged SR linedefs (1340, 1344, etc), also the red key room is kinda silly if you first enter it without pressing linedef 1194.

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Here's what the deal with this project is, as I see your concerns with it being distinctly un-Jenesis as valid.

I'm aiming to change up my mapping style (or should I say approach) a bit - just a bit. I feel that a lot of Jenesis is very boxy and linear, particularly my earliest efforts as in the ones that appeared in Part 1 of that WAD. Speedmapping puts me under a certain pressure to not focus on the minutiae of mapping, and ensures that I get them done promptly and let that creativity out in a way that it can be quickly realized before I run out of ideas or patience. Also as a result I can end up doing stupidhuge stuff, as you see in the opening shot of the first map here. Larger-scale stuff is something I've not dabbled in very much before, and it was almost entirely absent in Jenesis.

I also want to work on my theme-building and texture mixing. WADs like BTSX, all of Ribbiks' stuff, and even your Kuchitsu have really strong overarching themes through various texture mixing techniques, which I'd like to incorporate into a short punchy mapset of my own.

I'm also not too familiar with creating caves and organic structures of that sort, so a natural non-clean setting like a wild, watery jungle will allow me to hone those skills too. I feel that large structures would also help me be mindful when I'm placing monsters and build up a good progression. Jenesis featured demons, chaingunners and revenants on MAP01 - I wish to take it much slower with these maps. I apologise if they're boring, though - I still very much want an entertaining mapset, but in a different way to Jenesis, which was at times extremely brutal and bordered on slaughter-style, which unfortunately is a thing I just can't get into. If you were expecting something like that from MAP01 based on its size/looks, then I'm sorry, that's not what I'm aiming for with any of these maps.

Hope that clears things up a bit. Thanks for the bug reports. MAP04's have been fixed. I have no idea what's causing that HOM in MAP01. Things like that tend to happen willy-nilly with my maps, even after I test. :/

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"Relaxing maps". I liked them, though I agree with Memfis (why staying low when YOU are able to go MUCH higher). I see you aren't going for challenge, but rather an adventure and enjoyment for undemanding exploration-liking players and perhaps people like speedrunners - I noticed that an essence of your style is trying to please people with different playstyles. The new resources are certainly great and make the experience interesting. I admire the palette with desaturated red colour ala Duke3D, once I've tried to create such a palette myself but it didn't look good, here it does. The new enemy is awesome as well, his DEHACKED patch is surprisingly simple.

Do whatever you consider good, I'll enjoy it. :)

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Glad you enjoyed the maps, scifista. :) Yes, openness and exploration is very much to be a key component in these maps' gameplay.

So I think most of the people who've tried this want this to be harder overall. Can do. :)

*spams chaingunners everyfuckingwhere in true Plutonia style*

:P

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Heh, I'm pretty sure Jungle Spirits was the name of one of the Plutonia 2 maps. :P Will give this a go at some point.

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I enjoyed the wide open feeling of some areas in these maps, it is true that map01 was a bit bare, but the greenish palette was very nice so I didn't notice the lack of detail that much.

I also see Australia snuck it's way into map02! There are also 2 zombiemen stuch in eachother on map03. Pretty minor stuff.

In truth, I found myself getting lost a LOT with these maps. Maybe that's just player error though, I did enjoy them a lot. Looking forward to more :)

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Jimmy said:

So I think most of the people who've tried this want this to be harder overall. Can do. :)


A bit harder might not hurt, but I feel like the problem is the architecture looks pretty simple and bare, as Memfis said. I love large open levels where the gameplay is more about exploring than combat, but these maps just aren't selling it. The smaller scale stuff is mostly good and I like the sense of theme, but things like giant outdoor plateaus of one sector height and one texture look to me like stuff that's meant to be filled in later, rather than a finished product.

Again I agree with Memfis that the speedmap approach isn't really suited for this. If you did all the maps like this and then took a second pass at them, fleshing out the cliffs and caverns, that might work.

Don't get me wrong I really liked what I saw but all these maps felt more like outlines than final maps, and made me feel like "man I can't wait to see how this is when it is complete."

I don't know where Memfis' picture is but I found a bug with the switch that lowers the two large platforms with the former humans on them in Map 01. If you press it again when the platforms are lowered, the next part of the cavern lowers as well. Probably an errant sector tag.

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Agreeing with plums on upping the decoration, unless you're aiming for vanilla compatibility of course. I had a quick play through the first 2 maps and while MAP01 seemed a bit too simple, MAP02 was quite fun to play through and flowed decently. It was a nice surprise seeing the custom monster, although personally I think it needs something extra so it isn't just a weaker Baron: maybe a stream of 3 Baron balls instead of just 1? Just my opinion. Either way, keep it up. :)

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Obsidian said:

Heh, I'm pretty sure Jungle Spirits was the name of one of the Plutonia 2 maps. :P

That it was! The map that used one of my favorite tracks by Jamie Robertson. :)

Doomkid92 said:

I also see Australia snuck it's way into map02!

Good spot. ;P This mapset is set in Super Australia.

Also I apologize for the puzzly nature of the maps, I probably went overboard on the switch-hunting.

plums said:

Again I agree with Memfis that the speedmap approach isn't really suited for this. If you did all the maps like this and then took a second pass at them, fleshing out the cliffs and caverns, that might work.

I might do that later at some point, but no guarantees because I'm pretty busy with stuff.

Keep the bug reports coming, guys, if there are any. :P

Obsidian said:

It was a nice surprise seeing the custom monster, although personally I think it needs something extra so it isn't just a weaker Baron: maybe a stream of 3 Baron balls instead of just 1?

Again maybe. I currently can't DEHACKED for shit. :P

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Jimmy said:

Obsidian said:

It was a nice surprise seeing the custom monster, although personally I think it needs something extra so it isn't just a weaker Baron: maybe a stream of 3 Baron balls instead of just 1? Just my opinion. Either way, keep it up. :)

Again maybe. I currently can't DEHACKED for shit. :P

Shorten his walking frames (states 529-536) to a duration of 2. The enemy will move faster and more agile and also will attack more frequently.

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Jimmy said:

Again maybe. I currently can't DEHACKED for shit. :P


I can. :) If you need a DeHackEd monkey, just send me a PM.

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1 has tons of space obviously making it very easy. Started getting interesting on maps 3/4 with neat layouts and the monsters and textures (and new sounds? I forget) made it seem hereticy. I don't think I died once on fdas, but couldn't figure out how to get red key on 4 so quit.
http://speedy.sh/pYxHX/jb2-fda-ggg.zip

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Very cool demos, gggmork. :D

You missed the right-hand candle-lit corridor in the tomb's entrance room, which is opened by pressing one of those two gargface switches just in front of the yellow door. (The left-hand corridor you went through to get the yellow key.) The one on the right leads to the switch that lowers the red key in the arena, and to the red door.

The layout is perhaps a little obtuse, and the backtracking can probably be done without so I'll see if I can do anything about that. Sorry you didn't end up finishing the map, it's my favorite of the set so far. :<

(It's interesting that MAPs 03 and 04 seem to have been better received than 01 and 02 - the ones I attempted to branch out my approach in order to create. I may do some more bighuge maps like those two, and see if I can do any better. 03 and 04 definitely carry the Lego-y square-room construction method that plagues a lot of the maps in Jenesis.)

Obsidian said:

I can. :) If you need a DeHackEd monkey, just send me a PM.

Cool beans! I'll think about what else I need and get back to you if indeed there's anything. :)

joe-ilya said:

Nice palette, can I use it for my megawad?

I'd prefer if you didn't, sorry. Ask me again once this mapset is finished and I might reconsider.

I've been making slow progress on this for the last week or so, but no new maps are done just yet - I've been playing around with concepts, mainly. I need to plan more in advance, and dedicate some time towards actually getting them done in a "speedy" fashion. I demonstrated yesterday that I can do a pretty decent two-hour speedmap while tired as fuck, so as long as I find the time, I'll be able to get this done sooner or later. :P

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Neat. The palette and texture usage do a really good job of carrying the jungle theme along. The Snake Imps were honestly kind of funny to see for the first time, too.
And by the way, it took me about an entire minute for me to realize it, but isn't MAP01's theme a remix of Oil Ocean?

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Jaxxoon R said:

And by the way, it took me about an entire minute for me to realize it, but isn't MAP01's theme a remix of Oil Ocean?

That it is! One of mine. :)

Expect some more screenshots soon of a map I've been working on in a decidedly un-speedy fashion, Sleeping City. No new beta until at least four new maps are done, but rest assured that I have ideas for them. :P

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Two more shots!




Will resume work on this over the weekend and hopefully get some shit done! :D

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I must say I dig the wooden Plutonia teleporters: very groovy. :) The Inca style temple in the second shot looks quite promising too.

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Thanks! :D

Gez said:

Skyline is kinda flat.

Not really sure what you mean by this. Do you mean the sky needs more colors/shades (it is a little "flat" in terms of shading), or do some of the buildings need to be taller than others?

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The latter; I think the first pic especially could benefit from having some tall buildings/outcroppings/anything.

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FDAs for maps 01 to 04 : here

Cool new palette. :)

Map 01 didn't interest me much to be honest. Yeah you have a cool huge area with height differencies but it looks a bit bare for now. You could at least double the number of enemies there and it would be more enticing ( even though the monsters would still be easy to evade with such huge areas ).
Still, it's a good way to introduce the new theme and palette. Quite a pleasing atmosphere, I must say.

Map 02 was better. Areas were less huge but also more appealing to me somehow.
A new monster is introduced, well why not :)
It goes down a bit quickly but has a powerful attack, so it should be interesting to see how this thing will be used in your future maps.

Map 03 felt more Jenesis-ish, and I liked it more than the previous two. Seems like you completely dropped the idea of having huge areas and preferred classic smaller-sized brick forts. When I got the Blue key early on I was like : "Oh come on is this already over ?", having mentally associated the new Blue key with the exit since it's been that way in the previous two maps. But fortunately there was still a lot to do in this map.

I got lost in map 04, I got the 3 keys but I couldn't find a way to lower the wooden bars near the Red ones. Couldn't jump back to the starting area either, and I suspected there would be a blue switch there or something... Still, a nice map.
The new Revenant sprites are nice, they blend very well in this environment ( much more than Doom II's stock sprites ). Funny thing is that I'm also using Eriance's Revenant sprites for one of my wads, but I was afraid they'd be too dark and hard to see. Your yellow variant fixes this problem somehow. :)
Also, nice remix of one of Hexen's most memorable songs. I guess you made it yourself ?

I'll definitely keep an eye on this project :)
The new palette and atmosphere are what stand out here for now. Let's hope gameplay catches up.

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I really like the textures and theme. I didn't like MAP01 though, I don't think speed mapping and large areas work together that well. MAP02 is really nice though, hopefully you keep working on this.

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MegaTurtleRex said:

I don't think speed mapping and large areas work together that well.

Having seen Jimmy's speedmaps in other projects, I disagree. He tends to go for large scale environment with lower monster density (which can be threatening though, if Jimmy decides so), and I find it a good and effective approach. It usually encourages various combat strategies, and for once, I don't have to care about precise movement to not bump into stuff or fall off a ledge. I can also very well imagine how maps like this can be produced fast.

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Yeah it's just my opinion. I just thought it looked very barren, not because the author is bad but because the scale amplifies the lack of detail, so I tend to think it works better for smaller maps.

It's a nice experiment though, natural environments kind of demand detail, so to try and pull off the opposite is a fun idea.

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Wilou: Cool demos! :D Really sorry about the MAP04 bug - those red pillars should totally be openable. D: That was addressed as soon as Memfis brought it up. Also I realized only after posting the maps that the starting room was completely inaccessible. This has since also been rectified.

You're right to deduce how the blue key/mask is to be the "exit" key for these maps. Kind of a throwback to Heretic there, in a way, which also has a dedicated style of exit room. The only thing I'll be changing for the next beta is making the bars immediately openable rather than remote-activated - so I'll be changing MAP02's exit area in a way to make it not quite so arduous.

BlackFish: Rest assured the maps shall be harder for the next beta. Certainly the use of Plutonia textures seems to demand at least a decent challenge, I now realize. :P

scifista42: Yep, that's more or less what I'm going for here. :) Looking back at Jenesis, I realize that holy shit do some of the maps suffer from monster overpopulation. In what may be a permanent change to my mapping approach, I'm trying to be very conservative with my monster usage now, with a view to giving the player enough challenge to keep them on their toes, and suitably entertained, as they go through the maps, but not saturating the levels with monsters to the point where it's all action all the time. With Jungle Spirits, I'm making sure that I introduce the different kinds of monster in a steady and graded fashion, especially given my choice to give some of them new sprites/behaviors.

I also wish for there to be brief moments of silence or inactivity as I set the scene and let the player explore around, so I guess there's also a small element of allowing the player time to look at the scenery. :P I will, however, try to avoid boring the player with prolonged spells of very little happening.

MegaTurtleRex: No offense taken. I guess given the nature of the maps as being made fairly speedily, I'm relying more on the aesthetics provided by the textures, rather than the detailing, to carry the theme and the visual cohesion. At the very least I tried to use textures that wouldn't tile gratingly at that scale/distance. Proper detailing is usually an afterthought with me, especially when speedmapping, and in the latter case I just tend to create rooms with their bare essentials, not giving a great deal of thought to making them look fancy in spite of whatever size they might be.

I'm not entirely sure what I could do with MAP01, as I was really going for something suitably massive in scale to wow the player on opening the set, but MAP02 kind of seems to suffer from awkwardly being caught midway between the tight, constricted Lego-brick aspect of my Jenesisy style, and the new approach of explorative nonlinearity and spaciousness that I'm going for with these maps. If I had the time or patience, I'd probably go back and remake MAP02.

...God damn it I talk way too much about my shit. XP

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