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Professor Sir

Would something like this be possible in Doom?

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I'm not sure this thread is where it's supposed to be (maybe Doom General?), so don't kill me.

There have been a lot of aesthetic things done with the Doom engine that no one thought possible at one point. However, I'm thinking of something that I don't believe is possible: Sunlight Shaders. I'm not talking about torches or lamps, I'm talking sun-in-the-sky light coming through the window. I know it's possible with things like changing the brightness in sectors, but that's a mapping trick (as far as my incredibly unbelievably limited skills can tell) not a modding trick.

Let's say there is a torch on the opposite side of a room. Now let's say there are two columns blocking the torch. Would it be possible for light to shine through those columns and to the other side of the room, and not just form a ball of light around the torch? Would it be possible to set a light in the sky and do the same thing?

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If I understand you correctly and your idea is for this to be done as an effect independently of the actual sector lighting in a map, this would have to somehow be implemented as an engine-side feature, rather than something to load as an addon.

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You're talking about a fairly modern shader effect that involves the simulation of light shafts. It's really difficult to imagine this being possible, even in GZDoom. I could imagine a texture with an alpha channel and a nice gradient possibly accomplishing the trick. Maybe. I'm not a programming guru, so I don't know what the exact limits are on the engine.

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I'm positive I once saw a youtube where doomguy has fists and walks up to a crumbly wall and punches it and light shines through the cracks where he punches. I can't find it though; searched here and youtube for it. Found these though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6xdIXjf5AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCxOnRzpthU

EDIT found it (I guess he doesn't punch the wall, shows how good my memory is... doesn't even look like the doom engine but says it is. I don't know much about it):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpDWGJX4xH4

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I would love to see this - I'm almost certain I've seen a Doom engine out there with proper light sourcing, including shadows around columns as you've described, but I could be confusing it for another mod for an old game.

gggmork said:

found it (I guess he doesn't punch the wall, shows how good my memory is... doesn't even look like the doom engine but says it is. I don't know much about it):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpDWGJX4xH4


Damn, I agree that doesn't even seem like the Doom engine, that's some damn impressive work it it really is. I'd think something like that would be more popular if there was even one map to play.

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Doomkid92 said:

I would love to see this - I'm almost certain I've seen a Doom engine out there with proper light sourcing, including shadows around columns as you've described, but I could be confusing it for another mod for an old game.

That was probably Vavoom.

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Avoozl said:

I really wish Doom would get the polymer and HRP treatment DukeNukem3D got.

Underclock your CPU to 5 megaherz clock cycle, run GZDoom, it should be identical to the experience of using Polymer on a normal computer.

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Doomkid92 said:

I would love to see this - I'm almost certain I've seen a Doom engine out there with proper light sourcing, including shadows around columns as you've described, but I could be confusing it for another mod for an old game.



Damn, I agree that doesn't even seem like the Doom engine, that's some damn impressive work it it really is. I'd think something like that would be more popular if there was even one map to play.


As is my understanding, that is a scripted set up with specially placed textures and such (please correct me if I am wrong of course).

For non-scripted, Vavoom has light sourcing, due to being based off Quake.

Doomsday's unfinished bias lighting ('rend-bias-grid 1' and then 'rend-bias 1' in the console) is sort of, like light sourcing. The screenshot below shows the start of Doom2 Map01 complete with a black back wall showing the feature is WIP (it's probably a lot more WIP than that screenshot indicates).

Dday's dynamic lights also light mobjs in 3D: in this very old screenshot from my old TC of Corridor7 based off the aging 1.8.6, you might just be able to see that the middle table of the three is brighter than the other two for instance. This is because there is a dynamic light in front of it; the other two tables aren't as bright because the dynamic lights are behind them relative to the player.



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gggmork said:


In the comments of the third video it says

"icytux 5 years ago

hey, WadaHolic, care to post a new video of the new way of doing this with meshes now? id really like to see it ingame. as for the people still wondering how. its pretty simple :P alot of additive transparent textures put up in a tight row. nowadays tho hes doing it with 3D models (i think)"

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I think there was a branch of Chocolate Doom with a fully raytracing engine, that one would have "realistic" light sources in the way you described.

Here it is: Doomcaster.

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Maes said:

I think there was a branch of Chocolate Doom with a fully raytracing engine, that one would have "realistic" light sources in the way you described.

Here it is: Doomcaster.


Awesome stuff - one of the few enhanced engines that I dig looks wise.
Though it's such a crawler.

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Professor Sir said:

I'm not sure this thread is where it's supposed to be (maybe Doom General?), so don't kill me.

There have been a lot of aesthetic things done with the Doom engine that no one thought possible at one point. However, I'm thinking of something that I don't believe is possible: Sunlight Shaders. I'm not talking about torches or lamps, I'm talking sun-in-the-sky light coming through the window. I know it's possible with things like changing the brightness in sectors, but that's a mapping trick (as far as my incredibly unbelievably limited skills can tell) not a modding trick.

Let's say there is a torch on the opposite side of a room. Now let's say there are two columns blocking the torch. Would it be possible for light to shine through those columns and to the other side of the room, and not just form a ball of light around the torch? Would it be possible to set a light in the sky and do the same thing?

Making maps look good is an art. Automatically tacking engine effects onto existing maps almost never turns out well. Skilled artists and/or mappers have to go back and manually do it for it to be worth it.

But wait, sector lighting already lets you do it manually.

I guess you could make an argument that it could be *easier* than it is right now. But that's as much of a task for the map editors, as it is for the source ports themselves.

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