Doom 2 was a terrible game

[Da Werecat]

mrthejoshmon said:

(Hint: A sequel is a continuation of a plot, not to ring as much new features in as possible)

Well, we have Quake 2 with a totally unrelated plot. It wasn't an ideal sequel too, by the way: all monsters were shooting either projectiles or hitscans. Nothing new.

But at least they added colored lighting and made all new models and textures.

[dew]

OpenMaw said:

If anything i'd say the Deathmatch is harmed by the SSG as it essentially makes it ten times easier to act like a grieving spawn killer.

That's it, you couldn't leave well enough alone. I couldn't care less about your half-witted tirades, but then you had to say something entirely stupid like that. You're that bitch boy at the end of a FFA ladder board with 2 frags and 40 deaths, stubbornly trying to get a kill with the SG, because it's so superior and proper, aren't you.

Newsflash: Doom DM is defined by the SSG, it can stand on its own or it balances out the superheavy arsenal. It's why we're still playing it. Save few very precious exceptions, non-SSG maps are boring and people avoid them. No one really wants to take pot shots at each other with the shotty, it's not much fun. If people listened to you, multiplayer Doom would be long dead.

[mrthejoshmon]

Da Werecat said:

Well, we have Quake 2 with a totally unrelated plot. It wasn't an ideal sequel too, by the way: all monsters were shooting either projectiles or hitscans. Nothing new.

But at least they added colored lighting and made all new models and textures.

Yeah, I said the wrong thing. What I meant to say was series and not story.

[TheCastle]

Captain Red said:

Where there any Doom 2 wads that set out to follow the spirit of the original doom's Level design?

No Rest For The Living

:)

[Marcaek]

Hey, It's that castle guy!

Stick around this time\make more wads :P

[Woolie Wool]

Captain Red said:

Where there any Doom 2 wads that set out to follow the spirit of the original doom's Level design?

Yes, actually...

[TheCastle]

Marcaek said:

Hey, It's that castle guy!

Stick around this time\make more wads :P

I plan to actually :D

[Csonicgo]

babo said:

Especially compared to doom 1. When I first started doom 2, I was thinking it was a joke or a fan created map or something. First off WTF is with the music? It went from atmospheric, evil doom music to unfitting lounge music.

The level design was mostly trash. Completely boring textures, no atmosphere, nothing. What happened? How did we go from doom to doom 2?

Then what the hell are you here for? Delete Doom2 (and Doom) from your HDD and stop posting.

[Avoozl]

Quake 2 was much more consistent than Quake 1.

[Koko Ricky]

Consistency doesn't matter when your gameplay is pretty good, but could be awesome. Quake 1 was extremely inconsistent but has more replay value in the campaign.

[MajorRawne]

Csonicgo said:

Then what the hell are you here for? Delete Doom2 (and Doom) from your HDD and stop posting.

This thread is entitled "Doom 2 is a terrible game", so his opinions are valid. Besides, half the currently active threads seem to be about Doom's music, and I agree Doom 2's music is significantly worse than the original game's.

[esselfortium]

MajorRawne said:

This thread is entitled "Doom 2 is a terrible game", so his opinions are valid. Besides, half the currently active threads seem to be about Doom's music, and I agree Doom 2's music is significantly worse than the original game's.

Doom 2 had "Message For The Archvile", your argument is invalid :P

[Doominator2]

esselfortium said:

Doom 2 had "Message For The Archvile", your argument is invalid :P

Ya, ok DOOM II has a few good songs but DOOM had a great song on every level :P

[dg93]

Doominator2 said:

Ya, ok DOOM II has a few good songs but DOOM had a great song on every level :P

I agree to that!

[Da Werecat]

Doominator2 said:

Ya, ok DOOM II has a few good songs but DOOM had a great song on every level :P

Especially Refinery.

[MajorRawne]

When I first heard the Hangar music, I laughed my head off. But now I think of it with great affection. It's not so much the music from Ultimate Doom as it is the names of the tracks. Some of them are a bit silly. I like the Hell-themed music from Ultimate Doom.

The only Doom 2 track I can think of that I almost like is the one from Inmost Dens (I think).

EDiT: No it isn't, but it's one that is a bit similar, quite suspenseful.

[mrthejoshmon]

Doom and Doom 2 both have great music but TNT has the best ;P

[RUSH]

Not a terrible game, but certainly the weakest of the commercial id WADS. The SSG overpowers the berserk fists and original shotgun. Thankfully, the new monsters help balance the SSG and have subsequently extended the modding life of the game. I guess Doom 2 was more of an experimental expansion pack, albeit with poorer maps than the original.

Overall, Doom 2 is still Doom and a blast to play.

[Doominator2]

RUSH said:

Not a terrible game, but certainly the weakest of the commercial id WADS. The SSG overpowers the berserk fists and original shotgun. Thankfully, the new monsters help balance the SSG and have subsequently extended the modding life of the game. I guess Doom 2 was more of an experimental expansion pack, albeit with poorer maps than the original.

Overall, Doom 2 is still Doom and a blast to play.

I found Plutonia to be the worse, there were some interesting maps (like Map11) but overall it just felt like a map pack for doom 2 that didn't add anything new.

[Maldoror]

Doom 2 was very bad level and atmosphere wise yes, except for a few shining moments like Dead Simple. The monsters were great though.

It was a big letdown as a standalone game BUT it was an absolute goldmine for modding and it allowed the creation of many amazing Doom wads that made Doom what it is today.

That's why I both hate and love Doom 2.

On the other hand I really wish they toned down SSG a little. Doom 1 had great weapon balance - every situation asked for a particular weapon - but in Doom 2 we can basically solo everything with it. :(

It's a fun weapon but still.

[RUSH]

Maldoror said:

Doom 2 was very bad level and atmosphere wise yes, except for a few shining moments like Dead Simple. The monsters were great though.

It was a big letdown as a standalone game BUT it was an absolute goldmine for modding and it allowed the creation of many amazing Doom wads that made Doom what it is today.

That's why I both hate and love Doom 2.

On the other hand I really wish they toned down SSG a little. Doom 1 had great weapon balance - every situation asked for a particular weapon - but in Doom 2 we can basically solo everything with it. :(

It's a fun weapon but still.

It's overpowered I agree, but damn - it's just SO satisfying.

BOOM *CLICK-CLICK-CLICK*

[Platinum Shell]

RUSH said:

BOOM *CLICK-CLECK-CLOCK*

Fix'd

[dew]

Maldoror said:

Doom 1 had great weapon balance - every situation asked for a particular weapon - but in Doom 2 we can basically solo everything with it. :(

Again with this argument? Does it stem from romantic memories or what?

If you consider pistol starts, a rather surprising number of Doom2 maps either hide the SSG somewhere deep in the map, or don't place it at all! Go check, you'll be surprised and annoyed that you suddenly face mancos with the SG only (and how pace-breaking that is). Then you'll realize the SSG merely helps to keep the game as fast against mid-tier monsters as Doom was against low-tiers with the SG/CG combo.

On the other hand, if you're talking about continuous play only, Doom faces the same issues as Doom2. That precious "weapon juggling" goes out of the window soon, because you get massively oversupplied. E1 becomes Chaingun: The Game, the ultimate weapon to neuter any existing threats sans the Barons. E2 and E3 gives you the same treatment with the Plasma Rifle. You only ever need to step down from these deathsticks to conserve ammo occassionaly, or show off with a rocket group kill.

[TheCastle]

Honestly, after closely analyzing doom 2 for everything its worth I found that the most balancing destroying item in the game was the backpack. Nothing compares to what this item does to the games overall balance.

I also don't view the super shotgun as being over powered unless you are death matching. A single point blank blast from the SSG can one shot someone from 200 200. On that note I don't view Dooms deathmatch to be ideal for balance to begin with.

[Platinum Shell]

TheCastle said:

A single point blank blast from the SSG can one shot someone from 200 200.

Actually, it can't. The SSG's damage output is anywhere from 100-300, and, assuming the armor type the player is wearing is blue (absorbs 50% of all damage), then a blast of 300 points will leave a 200 200 player with 50 50. Still incredibly powerful though.

[vdgg]

Oh, let's stop with this 100-300 HP range myth.

[Platinum Shell]

vdgg said:

Oh, let's stop with this 100-300 HP range myth.

Hey man, bring it up with the wiki.

[dew]

TheCastle said:

Honestly, after closely analyzing doom 2 for everything its worth I found that the most balancing destroying item in the game was the backpack. Nothing compares to what this item does to the games overall balance.

Amen! Without it, running out of ammo is a fairly quick process - the limit works particularly well for (wait for it) the SSG, of all things. Also if the following map isn't microscopic, chances are the carryovers won't ruin it. Spending 100 shells, however, is a pretty tedious process. The backpack limits only work well for the BFG, I'd say, and even that opinion might be clouded by watching the slaughter genre grow.

I also don't view the super shotgun as being over powered unless you are death matching. A single point blank blast from the SSG can one shot someone from 200 200. On that note I don't view Dooms deathmatch to be ideal for balance to begin with.

Overpowered relative to what? Keep in mind, it's impossible to reach that optimal 300dmg. Doom's lookup table of RNG values is fixed and pellet damage is added up in also fixed uninterrupted jumps, so you'll never hit all the high values. This histogram is closer to truth. In reality, anything over 200 (basically a maxed full hit) will get you an evil eye from the opponent, heh. SSG only really ruins CG and SG and those suck anyways. :) RL, PG and BFG can be considered even deadlier murdersticks.

(Gorramt, I was ninja'd!)

[scifista42]

Backpack is great, and doesn't influence balance in a bad way IMO. I don't like to run out of ammo soon, when I've already saved up the ammo. Specially if saving up the ammo required a long time, effort (precise shooting), and struggling of using the particular weapon. It's the reasonable distribution of ammo what makes a good balance. Then, let the player manage his ammo however he wants to.

[MajorRawne]

People can get through almost the entirety of Ultimate Doom with the shotgun and Doom 2 with the super shotty. There really isn't much need to bring out the high power weapons most of the time. It always seemed weird that in two hundred years' time when humans are beginning to learn interdimensional travel, their most useful weapons were developed and built in the 1800s-1900s.

So much for antimatter, lasers, zero-point energy, super-advanced body armour, remote drones etc.