Third article in my console playthrough adventure

[rabidrage]

In case you've missed the first two and don't know what's going on, here they are:

http://www.talesntangents.com/journey-to-the-center-of-doom-part-1.html

http://www.talesntangents.com/journey-to-the-center-of-doom-part-2.html

I've been playing through all the console Dooms in release order, and, well...so far I've only beaten the 32X version. I'm waiting on an AV cable for my Jaguar so that one will look good on my TV. Along the way I've been picking apart the fine details and describing how Doom has evolved over the years. I'm open to criticism (but please be gentle!). Whatever I learn can be applied in future articles.

Here's part 3: http://www.talesntangents.com/journey-to-the-future-of-doom-part-3.html

[gemini09]

Hey.

I read all three articles and I look forward the rest in your rundown of console Doom's history. Me and anybody I knew, had Doom on PC, and if somebody only owned a console, it was likely to be Super Mario jumping around on screen in that house.

We never had any interest in the console ports, obviously, and on that note I had a laugh and a few flashbacks as I read you argumenting pro-Nintendo vs the original PC edition.

Anyway, this is all like an unread chapter for me, so count me in, and thanks for your efforts. :)

[Xegethra]

Yeah I read them too, and I grew up playing the PSX port, I wonder if you have any similar experiences with it that I did.

I learnt a bit about the other console ports which is nice, I've never played any of them as I didn't have the systems....not even old Snessy was in my possession as a child. Rarely played that system at all.

I've seen gameplay of some of the ports though, may yet try them but for now I don't see it happening. Still though, good read.

[rabidrage]

Glad you guys are enjoying the articles. I love to write, but I've been lazy about it lately. They say to write what you know, so here I am. Maybe it'll get my brain back up to speed.

I liked the PSX port for the new stuff it had, and I never played through very much PSX Final Doom. Hopefully I don't get stuck on it for too long, or we'll never get to GBA Doom and Doom II. Of course, imagine how much more I'll write before the PSX even comes into focus. We've got some time yet.

[Waffenak]

Fascinating, interesting articles browse thru

[Blastfrog]

Nice articles, but there are some inaccuracies that have not yet been addressed.

1. The 32X version doesn't have a special splash of red pixels for the Zombieman and Demon attacks. What you're seeing is merely the ordinary blood sprites. The only version that doesn't feature this is the SNES version.
2. The PSX version does not use brick pixels like the other ports. While it does run in a lower horizontal resolution (256 rather than 320), it makes use of all pixels, rather than every other pixel.
3. The border in the 32X version was quite necessary for performance reasons.
4. Item pickup tint is yellow, not white. I wonder why so many people get this wrong.
5. 32X Doom got out earlier because it was rushed, not because it necessarily had the mapset first. 32X version originally had its own mapset that was closer to the PC version before an apparent development reboot. Go check out the prototypes if you're interested.

The following aren't inaccuracies, just notes.

The reason they didn't put the BFG in 32X Doom is because it was originally only found in the Inferno maps, and they rushed the port. As I'm sure you know, despite Fortress of Mystery being placed in Inferno in the Jaguar version, it was originally an episode 2 map.

Frankly, the 32X version should have had its ticrate capped at 15. It shares the Jaguar version's behavior (designed for 15), but runs it at 20 instead. While 20 is nice and smooth, there is frequent slowdown to 15 (it's all based on a screen refresh rate of 60hz), making the gameplay pace very inconsistent. The speed up is problematic.

I'm not entirely sure myself if what I'm about to say is accurate, but the Jaguar version didn't necessarily do anything extra, just different. It's still 8-bit indexed (I think), but the lighting has double intensity (same as setting R_Visibility in ZDoom from 8 to 16), and the blending method is subtractive (only half intensity), as opposed to the PC version's full intensity divisive. It's a distinct and neat look, though.

Unrelated to Doom, I wonder why you find it so hard to believe that Donkey Kong Country doesn't use the SuperFX chip. Sure, the game looks nice, but it's not doing anything fancy with the hardware. It's only that the art assets being fed to the SNES were prerendered with high end 3D renderers, it's no different than being fed hand drawn assets. They're 4bpp bitmaps all the same.

gemini09 said:

We never had any interest in the console ports

Are you trying to speak for the whole community? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think many of us are interested in the different versions out there. The PSX version is widely well regarded.

Speaking of which, I'm still pissed that Tim Willits snubbed the PSX version. I know he was trying to shill for the BFG Edition, but the PSX port wasn't "only Doom 1" and "not very good." It had some limitations, sure, but they put effort and care into that port, with a sleek presentation, and a revamped atmosphere. A lot better than "eh, put minimal effort into altering the politically incorrect content" and "multiplayer synchronization? What's that?"

[Xegethra]

rabidrage said:

Glad you guys are enjoying the articles. I love to write, but I've been lazy about it lately. They say to write what you know, so here I am. Maybe it'll get my brain back up to speed.

I liked the PSX port for the new stuff it had, and I never played through very much PSX Final Doom. Hopefully I don't get stuck on it for too long, or we'll never get to GBA Doom and Doom II. Of course, imagine how much more I'll write before the PSX even comes into focus. We've got some time yet.

The PSX version is the only port I've played really. And most people I know haven't really tried any other ports either, it'll be nice to read up on somebody else's impression of those other ports. PSX Final Doom I also haven't played as much of, however I have played through it a few times, but it's the original Doom and Doom 2 I have played the most for the system.

Not growing up with a PC, I didn't know the PSX version was a port...just thought it was a game as no friends either had a PC, or had Doom for it. When I learnt of the PC Doom I was surprised to know it has a few games in the Doom series for it and the Playstation Doom took some levels from all of them and put them in one game....

Because of this, it will always be my favourite Doom version...as cool as the PC version is. I think one thing that sticks me to it is the sounds of the game....the doors, item pick ups, monsters and ambient music all sound different, darker and deeper and the slower pace of the game made it feel a little bit more sinister. Thel ift sound effects of moving floors in the background used to scare me as I wondered if the monsters were using them. That's one more thing about Doom, the fact the monsters often travel the map and try to find you....

[rabidrage]

Sodaholic...

I love the technical specs you've brought to the table. Some of that is stuff I'd never have noticed or been able to describe due to a lack of more comprehensive programming/graphics knowledge.

That being said, some of your inaccuracies seem questionable. I've just been playing the game. I'd write my articles fresh off a level or two. So the blood splatter is definitely there. I didn't mean to imply that it was "special" only to the 32X--it's special to the consoles, minus SNES, like you observed. If I need to be more specific to avoid misleading people, I will. I figured it was something I could explain further as I actually played through the rest of the ports.

"The border was quite necessary for performance reasons"? I question that. I highly question it. The reason I do so is that the 32X is probably the fastest of all the ports, and without the border I don't think it would have suddenly backslid all the way to the sloth/choppiness of the Saturn or 3DO. I remember how little difference it made to change the 3DO screen by only one or two sizes. It wasn't blazing fast until it was tiny. I think the 32X border helped the game, for sure, but was it necessary? Hard to accept. I'm ready to watch some of the beta videos again, though I only seem able to find them when I'm not looking for them.

For item pickup color, I was referring specifically to the invulnerability artifact effect. Not the flash when you pick up an item, but the tint of the screen while invulnerable. The whole screen stays tinted until you lose it.

As far as the mapset, well, I'm not sure if it had the mapset first, per se, but the quote I posted regarding Carmack's time at Sega of America HQ was apparently referencing spring 1994. If both the 32X and Jaguar versions were released in November, it stands to reason the 32X version was the one on which the maps were originally developed, and then that mapset became the default console mapset. Unless it was coincidence that the maps look the same on every console except the SNES?

Xegethra--given your passion for the PSX port, I highly recommend Doom 64. You'd probably love it!

[ReFracture]

I've been playing console Doom games lately as well.

Playstation Doom is pretty cool. I am very surprised how well it plays using just digital inputs.

I got Playstation Final Doom in the mail recently, somewhat disappointing to be honest. Not a very big mapset with spotty performance. I wouldn't mind trying out the Playstation mouse on it sometime though.

[Blastfrog]

I don't have a clue who made the Jaguar mapset, maybe it was Carmack, maybe it was Romero, maybe it was Petersen? At best the mapset was made with the intention of both, but Carmack seemed far more interested in developing for the Jaguar. None of us can really say for sure, though.

rabidrage said:

So the blood splatter is definitely there. I didn't mean to imply that it was "special" only to the 32X--it's special to the consoles, minus SNES, like you observed.

No, it's not special to the consoles. It's not a screen effect, it's just a sprite being spawned in the game world, you can observe this in PC Doom as well. Seriously, open the IWAD up in Slade, find the sprites BLUDA0, BLUDB0 and BLUDC0, that's what you're seeing. It happens whenever you're attacked via hitscan. I don't remember if it occurs from typical monster melee (I doubt it though, given the non-physical nature of it), but the Pinky Demon uses hitscan in version 1.2 and lower, which is what the console versions are based on.

The reason it doesn't appear in SNES Doom is because it was written from the ground up without any of the actual Doom code. They didn't replicate the effect for performance reasons, to avoid rendering too many sprites. The bullet puffs are missing too. I highly doubt it had anything to do with censorship, because all the other blood, gore, satanic imagery and IIRC even the cursing in the story text was kept intact.

rabidrage said:

"The border was quite necessary for performance reasons"? I question that. I highly question it. The reason I do so is that the 32X is probably the fastest of all the ports, and without the border I don't think it would have suddenly backslid all the way to the sloth/choppiness of the Saturn or 3DO.

I doubt that the border was added without much deliberation. The early 32X protos tried a full size and it ran somewhat poorly.

Observe how often the framerate drops when you're not facing a solid wall. If it ran 20 tops with the border, and, say, 15 tops without, imagine how slow it would run in those areas where you observe the framerate drop.

20 may be faster, but look at all the concessions it has to make in the rendering. It doesn't process fog (the lighting is all flat, as if you set R_Visibility to 0 in ZDoom), it doesn't even bother to light sprites, and it has to run in a border to do so.

Music aside, the 32X version is better than the SNES version, but it still sucks pretty hard.

[rabidrage]

If the port was rushed, I'm not sure how much deliberation they really could have put into anything, including the border.

For what I'm talking about with the blood splashes--okay. I think I recall seeing them in Vanilla Doom when you get shot by Former Humans/Sgts., but have a look at these videos.

PC version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua1gdU-_VVg
Watch for it around the 18 second mark. The bite effect is a red flash.

32X version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcgnnUy3Jdw
Roundabout 54 seconds in, he's getting bitten by a demon. Watch for the difference. Are we maybe talking about two different things? Or is it just that I haven't played Doom 1.2 and lower?

I have a certain fondness for the SNES version, as it was my first, so hopefully I don't annoy you too much when I defend it. The SNES was pretty bad in a lot of ways, but worse than the 32X? It retained the invisibility powerup, light goggles, Cyberdemon and Spiderdemon, and it had more levels overall, as well as better adherence to the original PC layouts (for better or worse, it's subjective).

[Gez]

That's a blood splat alright. Notice that the red flash is present too.


If this were a HUD effect, it would be a lot less pixely than that. It'd be at the same resolution as the HUD weapon sprites, for instance. The huge pixels are caused by extreme close-up with an actor, in this case a blood splat actor caused by the demon bite being a hitscan. Hitscan attacks spawn either blood splats or bullet puffs, as appropriate, upon hitting something.

[Xegethra]

Yeah, I'll have to check out the N64 Game beyond just watching it on YouTube.

I don't have an N64, so maybe I'll go look at one of those total conversions for an N64 port.

[Blastfrog]

rabidrage said:

I have a certain fondness for the SNES version, as it was my first, so hopefully I don't annoy you too much when I defend it. The SNES was pretty bad in a lot of ways, but worse than the 32X? It retained the invisibility powerup, light goggles, Cyberdemon and Spiderdemon, and it had more levels overall, as well as better adherence to the original PC layouts (for better or worse, it's subjective).

Heh, no, it doesn't annoy me at all. The reason I claim the 32X version is superior is because the gameplay isn't broken, and the sound effects weren't simplified.

The SNES version's presentation is far better, but it has some really wonky gameplay behavior, which is the dealbreaker for me.

*Movement in general is very stiff
*Despite having shoulder buttons, you can't circlestrafe. 32X gets a pass on this one because 3 buttons isn't enough, and the 6 button layout wouldn't be comfortable for it
*Walls are made of superglue
*The weapons feel way off
*Enemies do not react to sound, only sight
*Enemy animations are bizarrely turbo
*Sfx are simplified, Pinkies sound like Imps, etc

I'd like it a whole lot more if the gameplay wasn't an incompetent mockery of the real Doom engine behavior, and if the music didn't replace distorted guitars with orchestral strings in some tracks, all while being utterly off-beat (that's the 32X's sole musical advantage).

Despite the censorship, I actually rather like SNES Wolf 3D. The music was on-beat, the gameplay was fluid, smooth, fun and most importantly, functional, and it supported the mouse. I can actually set an emulator up to play with WASD+Mouse. Decensor it, and you've got a pretty damn good Wolf 3D game.

I wonder if E1M1's music was changed to Funk You as a subtle way of telling Nintendo "fuck you."

Xegethra said:

I don't have an N64, so maybe I'll go look at one of those total conversions for an N64 port.

Don't bother with the Absolution TC, get Doom 64 EX instead. Kaiser is the author of both, and he created EX years later as a better solution. It's not an inaccurate rip of the assets like the TC, it's pretty much the actual game recreated as accurately as possible.

[rabidrage]

All your points about SNES Doom fit what I remember. A lot was frustrating about it. I remember that the screen didn't bob up and down while you walked, but your weapon stills swings from side-to-side. It's sad that even that and the ceiling/floor textures had to be done away with to make it work. I give SNES Doom a lot of credit for pulling off what it did, though.

The Absolution TC has its own merits--original levels and monsters mixed in, plus a few custom mods are out there for it. There's a "Doom 64 upscaled" mod that makes things look pretty nice, as well as an HD weapon mod that also upgrades a few other sprites. All of that said, I'm still interested in checking out EX.

[Blastfrog]

rabidrage said:

I give SNES Doom a lot of credit for pulling off what it did, though.

Yeah, the rendering engine was pretty damn good. It ran at a solid 15fps. I don't mind the lack of flats so much, it still comes off looking better than 32X Doom despite the slightly lower resolution. At least it uses fog based lighting and doesn't make all the sprites fullbright, not to mention the transparency effects.

It's just a shame that it's all rendered null by not having the correct, or even half-way decent gameplay mechanics. That alone reduces this to a mere techdemo novelty than an actually enjoyable game.

rabidrage said:

The Absolution TC has its own merits--original levels and monsters mixed in, plus a few custom mods are out there for it.

Having played both, EX is a far better experience, IMO. I'm sure those original levels could be easily ported to EX -- hell, why don't I do it? Maybe I will.

rabidrage said:

There's a "Doom 64 upscaled" mod that makes things look pretty nice, as well as an HD weapon mod that also upgrades a few other sprites. All of that said, I'm still interested in checking out EX.

Y'know, I remember seeing those on JFiles or whatever that site was called before it shut down. Where can I find those files these days? I'm not sure if EX has support for hi-res replacements yet, but it's probably not terribly difficult to add.

[rabidrage]

Regardless of its quality, I'll be playing through SNES Doom after JagDoom. Funny--one of the worst-received ports came out after one of the best-received ports. I found something amazing, too. An old discussion thread from 1995 where people were coming up with potential comparisons in the month prior to SNES Doom's release: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.games.video.atari/LKXpk6lUxcE[1-25-false]

I also found an old thread discussing 3DO Doom development and why it was a failure. Took place in 1996: https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/rec.games.video.3do/gYZzvG2scUo

I wonder if any of these people are active on Doomworld!

If you can port the new levels AND the new monsters/items to EX, please do! I'd love to play through Outcast Levels and face the grenade-launching Arachnotron and Nightmare Cacodemon in EX.

I searched around a bit for a place where you might be able to get the hi-res weapon pack. The thing to remember is that it was originally created by Hellbound Hillbilly, who made a 1.0 and 2.0 version, and then improved upon by Pimpuigi. If I remember right, Pimpuigi called his polished version 2.0 as well. I found this link, and I think it's the right one: http://narod.yandex.ru/disk/12131021001/Doom64-Hi-Res-Pack-2_0.rar.html

There's also a link in the following thread (I'm linking to the thread so you can look at the pictures) to a mod called "Absolution Upscaled", which seems to work on different elements of the game--textures and maybe a few sprites. I managed to talk the creator into uploading what he had finished so far, since he may never finish it. http://dcemulation.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=99589

Except...it looks like the pics are down. Crap. Sorry.