So I've noticed divided reception of Brutal Doom lately

[Memfis]

mrthejoshmon said:

in reality it is not.

Who decided this and when? :\

[j4rio]

Terminology corner:

Overrated means that something is exceptionally highly praised (10/10) material when in reality it is undeserving of such a high rating and instead should be somewhere lower (around 7/10 or 8/10). It doesn't mean if stuff is overrated that it is bad, it just means it isn't deserving all the praise it gets.

[Memfis]

And the truly deserved rating is determined by Brandon D. Lade I suppose?

[j4rio]

There is no true rating determination. That's just what someone who says something is overrated thinks, or should think.

[Enjay]

Just to reiterate what j4rio said...

The clue is in the word: "overrated". Over rated; it is rated more highly than (a person thinks) it should be. A synonym is overpraised; given more praise than it is deserving of.

These terms do not mean something is necessarily bad, just that some people think it is better than others feel it deserves to be thought of. It could still be good, very good even, but (in the eyes of the commentator) just not as good as people are saying it is.

Commonly the context is where something is held to be excellent by a large number of people but the speaker disagrees with them (and may have a reasoned argument to explain why).

All too often, however, it is incorrectly used or assumed to mean that the thing being commented on is bad. That may be the speaker's opinion, but the term overrated does not intrinsically imply as much.

[Linkrulezall]

BURL TUMD - It's like Brutal Doom only it's not an overstuffed mess that gets boring after 5 minutes: http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=35458&sid=b7ab16f2e6981886661ddc7686455d5a

srsly everyone play burl tumd it's fun. What? We were talking about Brutal Doom again? Why?

[dg93]

Well... The first time I tried Brutal Doom (v.17) I found it to be pretty fun. I've never seen a Doom mod like it before (in the exception to Beautiful Doom, which is a bit underrated in my opinion). But I wasn't necessarily hooked on it. John Romero talks a lot about how good Brutal Doom is. My guess is that he's highly impressed with how some of the modders in the Doom Community have pushed the Doom engine to it's limits.

If anything, I believe Brutal Doom is somewhat keeping this community alive. So in a way, I respect Sgt_Mark IV's efforts and creativity of making an old school game into more of a hilarious modern day FPS. Hell, I would play Brutal Doom anytime over Doom 3.

But if you don't like Brutal Doom, there are always alternative mods of new weapons/enemy behaviors. Why not try Doomzone? Gather a few friends and circle jerk to this if you like:

[wesleyjohnson]

I have learned enough to know I won't be playing it.

1. Extremes in gore and audio. The kind of stuff appeals to some 10 year olds, and most have outgrown this by age 17.
It never appealed to me and never will.
Gratuitous gore would decide the issue by itself.

2. Brutal Doom is not what Doom should have been. Doom is about playing a level, not about saturating ones senses with excesses. I like the variation of Doom that is about immersion and the thinking game. Doom could have been an army game, or some other theme and it still would have been good. Chexquest is still the same kind of game play.
Brutal Doom makes the player a sadistic observer, with no feeling, no immersion, watching the gore safely from outside, a TV set horror movie experience.

3. Using the monsters weapons? If it can figured how to throw fireballs like an imp, and have it make sense, then OK. What do they do, rip an imp arm off. I have never seen an imp fireball launcher.

4. Played with a Simpson mod once. Kind of neat for while, but not fit for using in any other map other than one expressly designed for it.
Tried a mod with Marvel characters. Having 4 or 5 identical special characters really spoils the effect. Similar things in Brutal Doom would not be enticing as I have already seen how that does not work well. This needs additional characters in the engine, not altered monsters.

5. I have seen enhancements done that way already. Interesting attempt, but the faults and quirks make them useless for anything except a demo piece.
I already work on Doom Legacy enhancements that are much more compatible with existing maps and styles.

[Xegethra]

wesleyjohnson said:

I have learned enough to know I won't be playing it.

1. Extremes in gore and audio. The kind of stuff appeals to some 10 year olds, and most have outgrown this by age 17.

As opposed to normal Doom, which is just as childish anyway?...I mean demons, come on....that is already over the top silly stuff right there. Brutal Doom just tries to add to an already immature game.

The other things you mention make sense though, the mod could have been done better...but for what it is, its just a silly gore mod and people seem to be really taking it hard. So it changes Doom somewhat? That's the point....it would be a useless mod even more if it didn't change anything and people would be complaining that it doesn't do anything different.

I agree that it sucks that people might refuse to play Doom without it, thinking it makes it the only way to play Doom now. But that is the danger of any mod really, Brutal Doom shouldn't be singled out for that. Some people will stick with a mod and run with it, happens with all games.

Sure, it is not to everyone's taste, but people should lighten up on it a bit...what is meant for a bit of fun is taken way too hard. Yeah the guy is a douche, the mod may have a couple bugs in it, and it ain't perfect but that doesn't change what it is trying to do, spice up the game every now and then.

But reading this topic some names of other mods have come up that I will try out. I never really did play with mods a whole lot and learning of a few new ones will give me something else to have a crack at now....which is nice.

And I've seen videos of that Simpsons one....I find those sprites terrifying!

[GreyGhost]

TimeOfDeath said:

Haven't played it.

Same here, though I've watched a few gameplay videos. Brutal Doom has some nice touches but the gore's a little overdone for my tastes.

[Xaser]

Since it's tangentially relevant, I may as well post my own most recent experience with Brutal Doom:

[Obsidian]

HOW COULD YOU FORGET THIS?

[Shadow Hog]

Xaser said:

Since it's tangentially relevant, I may as well post my own most recent experience with Brutal Doom:
http://youtu.be/vq0L2FsMOOY
http://youtu.be/9MkBD_wsyBI

I can't decide which of these is more hilarious.

[Deleted_Account]

One thing I remember from the earlier version of Brutal Doom was when you blew off a zombie's arm it let out that obnoxious scream. AAAAHHH-ARGHHHHH---AHGGGHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeesh! Talk about blowing out my headphones lol.

[Enjay]

One thing I really like about BD is how it introduced new ways of doing certain tricks. e.g. I have learned how to include a psuedo ducking/standing up system for the enemies for my revised Burghead mod (when I eventually get it done) by looking at how the head-shot system in BD was done. Also, I like the system used to alert other enemies to the death of a nearby comrade which they might otherwise ignore with stock Doom AI.

I said earlier that it's "just a mod" and that I don't get all the fuss over it. I very much stand by that. However, I do think it's a good mod. I thoroughly enjoyed playing with it when I first got it and I appreciate the cunning, well implemented technical aspects of it too. However, it is just a mod. I've pretty much stopped using it at all these days and other gameplay mods have had more longevity for me in the past.

The fuss is bizarre and utterly pointless. I mean, why are we on page 3 of this thread? Everything here has been discussed to death before. (Yeah, I know, I'm not helping.) In fact, I find all the fuss far more offensive than anything relating to the mod. Not that I find the fuss that offensive either. However, it is threads like this which (at least partly), in the collective hive-mind of the community, seem to raise BD up to something more than just a mod.

[Koko Ricky]

I wanted to explore what it was that was causing so many people to react so strongly to this mod, more so than any other in Doom's modding history. I'm a bit surprised at how pissed some of you are about it. This has been a real eye opener.

[Woolie Wool]

Piper Maru said:

One thing I remember from the earlier version of Brutal Doom was when you blew off a zombie's arm it let out that obnoxious scream. AAAAHHH-ARGHHHHH---AHGGGHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeesh! Talk about blowing out my headphones lol.

That's what happens when you don't know what you're doing while recording and STAND TOO CLOSE TO THE MICROPHONE.

EVERYTHING DISTORTS INTO A DEAFENING WALL OF NOISE.

I think the "Sperglord Edtition" is the only Brutal Doom worth playing since it fixes many of the annoyances and restores the original zombie sounds. All the RIDICULOUSLY LOUD sounds are banished and it's so much more pleasant.

Brutal Doom Mancubi can still fuck themselves though.

[doom_is_great]

GoatLord said:

I wanted to explore what it was that was causing so many people to react so strongly to this mod, more so than any other in Doom's modding history. I'm a bit surprised at how pissed some of you are about it. This has been a real eye opener.

I honestly don't understand the absolute, harsh hatred for it. I can understand being annoyed by people constantly mentioning it or asking other modders "is your map compatible with BD?" or objecting to Sgt. Mark's foolish actions, but saying the mod itself is absolute shit when it obviously isn't? John Romero likes it. Matt Hooper likes it. I'm sure lots of other people over id likes it. Tons of people all over the internet like it. It's popular for a reason. It's a quality mod.

[mrthejoshmon]

doom_is_great said:

I honestly don't understand the absolute, harsh hatred for it. I can understand being annoyed by people constantly mentioning it or asking other modders "is your map compatible with BD?" or objecting to Sgt. Mark's foolish actson. ions, but saying the mod itself is absolute shit when it obviously isn't? John Romero likes it. Matt Hooper likes it. I'm sure lots of other people over id likes it. Tons of people all over the internet like it. It's popular for a reaIt's a quality mod.

That is all subjective as beauty is only in the eyes of the beholder. Technically, the mod is indeed an impressive display of how hard and painful you can rape the Doom engine (Or at least the more modern ZDoom style ports), however the substance of the mod is terrible in the eyes of many here.

Remember: We are not a hive mind, opinions are unique.

[ReFracture]

Xegethra said:

What is supposed to be a silly fun mod is taken waaay too seriously.

Seriously. You'd think some people were being held at gun point and forced to play it.

Brutal Doom is an amusing gore fest of violence that when coupled with a 1980s Slayer album works out pretty well for cooling off from a shitty day at work, but that's about all it has done for me.

[YieldBitch]

Personally I really like BrutalDoom (or well that is BrutalDoom SE, I don't care much for the original), though I'd also wager it depends a lot on age of the player, the older you are the more you'd likely find the excessive gore, well, excessive.

Though I'll also admit BrutalDoom does make the game easier, the assists are ridiculously strong, the assault rifle is a strong alternative, the finish off allows you to have frames of invincibility among large crowds of enemies and the mod even allows you to completely forego some levels, e.g. in Human BBQ where you can just kick the barrel out in the open field, jump up the ledge and exit the level without even acquiring a single of the keycards.

I first played Doom as a kid though, so to me the vanilla experience was quite brutal and BD manages to reignite that brutal experience now that I'm an adult.

Different strokes for different folks though.

[Phml]

What is supposed to be people voicing their opinion is taken waaay too defensively. You'd think some people were held at gunpoint and forced to read each BD topic.

[ReFracture]

Phml said:

What is supposed to be people voicing their opinion is taken waaay too defensively. You'd think some people were held at gunpoint and forced to read each BD topic.

Well, excuse me for throwing my two cents in. I wasn't aware my opinion on the divided reception of Brutal Doom was invalid.
(I deduce that you find my opinion invalid based on your mocking of my entire comment to state that I shouldn't even be in this thread in the first place).

I have no problem with anybody discussing any opinions they have in here. To clarify my frame of reference, I have heard a lot of discussion about Brutal Doom on IRC and Twitch, and the majority of it was very angry and pissed off. Not 'oh, that mod sucks I don't play it lol' but more 'THAT MOD IS A PIECE OF SHIT FUCK PEOPLE WHO PLAY IT' followed by actually playing it on Twitch and spending the whole time angrily discussing every bit they absolutely hate and making me wonder if they are about to have a heart attack.

So my comment of 'You'd think some people are held at gun point and forced to play' stems from that, and I felt Xegethra's feelings that the mod is taken too seriously was in line with my own.

Also I don't read many Brutal Doom threads, so I don't know where you are going with that.

If you'd like to discuss this with any civility please respond as such, otherwise respond with something else rude and I'll take that as my hint to vacate the thread.

[duh]

[Phml]

(I deduce that you find my opinion invalid based on your mocking of my entire comment to state that I shouldn't even be in this thread in the first place).

I was hoping to hint at both statements being equally absurd.

Comments like this come with this implied live and let live attitude... Yet at the same time browbeating anyone who disagrees. You don't like Brutal Doom? Obviously you're stuck up and take games way too seriously. Chill, bro. It's just a mod. What are you getting worked up about? Be cool.

This is intellectual bullying of the lowest form, capitalizing on that young people stupid ideal of being a detached cynic who never gets passionate about anything; and it's hypocritical, as someone who truly wouldn't care wouldn't bother posting. There's no possible answer, because anyone who disagrees has preemptively been labeled hot-headed, irrational, etc..

Screw that. Games (and mods) are awesome, talking about games is fun, games are worth being taken seriously and getting into screaming matches about.

[mrthejoshmon]

XCOPY said:

There is a portion of people who hates the author for being a dick and are trying their best to make people stop playing brutal doom by spreading author's bad deeds, because the author is clearly brutal doom itself. bleh

?

Where is this going off? I don't see anybody trying to convince people to stop playing, we are merely posting opinions here and not direct orders to stop playing.

that would look something like:

"The author is a dick, look at what he did! Do you really want to be supporting that." or probably something more subtle and less lackluster than that.

Despite my HUGE hatred for the mod (with it feeling like a crippled unfinished and unbalanced mess), I don't mind other people playing and enjoying the thing (in fact I am a regular on Mr. Chris' Brutal Doom based Youtube channel, don't comment or anything but I drop in and watch the videos he puts up). What it boils down to is weather you like the mod (Or possibly the author) or not (and as can be obviously seen, people here generally dislike the mod).

[duh]

[dg93]

Honestly, I can careless whether or not the author of Brutal Doom is a dick. We've all come across plenty of assholes in the community.

And if people don't like mods with gameplay changes, than don't play Brutal Doom. I don't understand why everyone has to bitch and complain about this shit so much.

[plums]

GoatLord said:

For those of you who don't care for--or just plain despise--Brutal Doom, could you elaborate?

Several forum members said:

Here are the reasons we don't like Brutal Doom.

But then some other people said:

Why are people always complaining about Brutal Doom?

Like I get that talking about BD is probably boring as shit to some people, and there's not really a whole lot of new ground being covered here. But if someone makes a thread genuinely asking why people don't like a thing, don't be surprised if a lot of the replies speak negatively of that thing.

[HXCpr0n]

I don't get all the fuss either. Brutaldoom is fun and cool and it's just a mod ayways. I have a potato computer so I just hate how it kills my framerate sometimes