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duh

limit-removing levels

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Not sure, but I'm curious to hear what other people suggest, because I too, am not sure (from a player's perspective) what the appeal is for vanilla wads. Limit Removing is where it's at imo.

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40oz said:

Not sure, but I'm curious to hear what other people suggest, because I too, am not sure (from a player's perspective) what the appeal is for vanilla wads. Limit Removing is where it's at imo.


It is kind of fun playing a big 'ol modern megawad with Doom 1.9 in dosbox, but that's more novelty to me than anything else.

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I think making vanilla wads and keeping them within the limits is fun, but I play them in a modern port like prboom-plus.

Btw, I compiled a list a while ago for Ports/0-9/ and Ports/a-c/.

levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/000207.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/100lines.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/102.zip		boom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/1024.zip		boom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/1024-1.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/1024-2.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/1024-3.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/1024dc.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/1024dcv2.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/10tomb4.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/1tag.zip		boom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/256.zip		boom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/32in24-d.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/40ozac.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/4hr.zip		boom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/5minmap.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/6fiffy1.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/6fiffy2.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/6fiffy3.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/6fiffy4.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/6fiffy5.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/8-bitadd.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/acad-xae.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/adspp.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/agony.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ahellday.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/allhell2.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/allwhtnt.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/alstsoul.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/amidol.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/artica.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/asgarden.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ash2ash.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/aslgeup.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/axiom.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/axix.zip		boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/aztec666.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/babbleon.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/badger1.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bbgspd01.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bcheese.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/belial.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/beluga.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bermuda.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bfl.zip		boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/blowup.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/boomhod.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/brian50.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/brkmp_m.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/brtslv11.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bselfish.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bspack.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cafebrk1.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cataboom.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cbd.zip		boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cct2.zip		boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/celtm.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/chachos.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/chaosprj.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/chord3.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cobra11.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cod.zip		boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/coecits.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/commcntr.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/comp_01.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/counter.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/crabbet.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/crea_one.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cresta.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/crimsonh.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/c-shock2.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cybie.zip	boom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/apclypse.zip	cdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/busao.zip	cdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cc-cod.zip	COD
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/3dterror.zip	csdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/64c30n9.zip	doom 64ex
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/arctic.zip	doomsday
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bcv10.zip	doomsday
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/brikwatr.zip	doomsday
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/corrptin.zip	doomsday
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/corvus.zip	doomsday
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ctdemon.zip	doomsday
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/666hell.zip	edge
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bananas.zip	edge
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/baseone.zip	edge
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cqb.zip		edge
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ct-tun1.zip	edge
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ct-tuncd.zip	edge
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ct-wwtrb.zip	edge
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/2ttob.zip	gzdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/6way2die.zip	gzdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/a_core.zip	gzdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ahell.zip	gzdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/alexmaxx.zip	gzdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/aust_01.zip	gzdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/aust_021.zip	gzdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/axbreakr.zip	gzdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/blrvoutp.zip	gzdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bttf.zip		gzdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cah_se.zip	gzdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/chaos.zip	gzdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/chaos2.zip	gzdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cheogsh.zip	gzdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cheogsh2.zip	gzdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ck25da.zip	gzdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cmpdceeb.zip	gzdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/corrpti2.zip	gzdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/crimson.zip	gzdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cthrsis2.zip	gzdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cthrss.zip	gzdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/azgthth.zip	jdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cacopits.zip	jdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/carnhell.zip	jdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/3delevat.zip	legacy
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/3dhorror.zip	legacy
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ad-of-p2.zip	legacy
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ad-of-p3.zip	legacy
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ad-of-rv.zip	legacy
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/andydm1.zip	legacy
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/andydm7.zip	legacy
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/arena666.zip	legacy
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/barrelb.zip	legacy
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bloodpent.zip	legacy
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bloodwrl.zip	legacy
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bltn.zip		legacy
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/brdoom.zip	legacy
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/btb.zip		legacy
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bughunt.zip	legacy
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/c_recept.zip	legacy
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cata.zip		legacy
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/condo2.zip	legacy
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/corea.zip	legacy
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cyberarena3.zip	legacy
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/1024pc02.zip	limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/11years.zip	limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/13years.zip	limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/2sectors.zip	limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/32.zip		limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/32innail.zip	limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/5l1c.zip		limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/5years.zip	limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/64lemons.zip	limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/admdbase.zip	limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/amarcord.zip	limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/arcadia.zip	limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/arx.zip		limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/astican.zip	limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/av20mem.zip	limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/base32.zip	limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bbb.zip		limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bd.zip		limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bloodlst.zip	limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bloodrst.zip	limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bloodrust.zip	limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bmystery.zip	limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bump.zip		limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cacoland.zip	limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/calisas.zip	limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cgcmplex.zip	limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ch_shoot.zip	limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/chaosord.zip	limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ciudad2.zip	limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ciudadel.zip	limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/comp.zip		limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/comp867.zip	limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/conf512.zip	limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/crfe_p1.zip	limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/c-shock.zip	limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cybersky.zip	limit-removing
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/artica_b.zip	mbf
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/artica2.zip	mbf
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/artica3.zip	mbf
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/artica4.zip	mbf
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/atfb.zip		mbf
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cityfrag.zip	mbf
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/3sfth.zip	skulltag
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/aclup.zip	skulltag
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/aforest.zip	skulltag
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/amazing.zip	skulltag
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/asv1.zip		skulltag
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/atomattk.zip	skulltag
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bf-01.zip	skulltag
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/boog.zip		skulltag
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/boub.zip		skulltag
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/caustlab.zip	skulltag
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/chemdept.zip	skulltag
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cinder.zip	skulltag
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/couv1.1.zip	skulltag
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ctb.zip		skulltag
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cyber.zip	skulltag
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/braham.zip	vavoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/clavnox.zip	vavoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/clavnoxr.zip	vavoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/a98dm.zip	zandronum
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/beliefs.zip	zandronum
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/carnate.zip	zandronum
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/coopzomb.zip	zandronum
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/crom.zip		zandronum
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/100x.zip		zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/10cake.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/300.zip		zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/3057hub1.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/30kmaps.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/30kreed.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/4maps.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/6fiffy6.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/787.zip		zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/8game.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/a8marine.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/abaddon.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/aberratn.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/aboomy.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ack.zip		zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/acsrcade.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/act9minors.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/actinium.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/action.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/action2.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/adessa.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/adios.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/admsm.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/advent.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/aeodlite.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/aeternum.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ahole_x.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/aimt.zip		zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/airbse.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/akuma.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/alien3.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/alk-ep1.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/altar666.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/amgdom8.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/amnesia.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/amt.zip		zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/anhs.zip		zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/a-onahd.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ap_012.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ap_013.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/apoc.zip		zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/aprhnsn.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/aquafina.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/arch.zip		zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/artifact.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/assault.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/assi_d.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/audun2.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/awp_b33.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/awsome.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/b0f.zip		zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/b79flames.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/b79hp2.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/b79purge.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/babel.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/badgerze.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/balls.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/banland.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/barista.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/baseen.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bbfourty.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bcmmm.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/beach.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/begeuse.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bella.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/belltoll.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bennyh.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bewani.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/beydkdth.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bfane.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bfbalon.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bfc103.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bfriary.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bgates.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bgw.zip		zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bhouse2.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/biovite4.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bjarne.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/blkfort.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/blkfortx.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bludwrks.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/blzfury.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bmtech.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/b-onahd.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bor_lost.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bossed.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/brains1.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/brains2.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/breed.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/brfinal.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/budrum26.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/build.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bunker.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/burger.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/byddeath.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/c7rc.zip		zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cah.zip		zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cah_p1.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cah_p2.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/caligari.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/candles.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cansquad.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/capslock.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/captain.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/caronte.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/castle2.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cata_rmx.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cava.zip		zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cavern.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cbndr.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cbored.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cdeath.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ce.zip		zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cell.zip		zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cerberus.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cg_blood.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ch133.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/chamdis.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/chasmad.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/chip_512.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/chips19.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/chisel.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/church.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/chw.zip		zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/circus2.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/citfear.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cityass.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/clakil.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/classkil.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/claust.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cmas1.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cmas2.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cmas3.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cmas4.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cmsalawa.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/coc.zip		zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cod_zd.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/colossus.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/comdie.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/complex.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/compstn.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/contain.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/corrptiz.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/crackers.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/crapirc5.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cratnew.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/crimson2.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/crospips.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/crpt_p.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/crudetwo.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ctomb.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ctrl_cen.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/curry.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cw-dftlt.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cybawolf.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cybspd01.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cz_181b.zip	zdoom
levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/6fiffy0.zip	
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/abyss.zip	
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/aotw.zip	
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ap_001.zip	
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ap_002.zip	
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ap_003.zip	
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ap_004.zip	
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ap_005.zip	
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ap_006.zip	
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ap_007.zip	
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ap_008.zip	
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ap_009.zip	
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/awaken.zip
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/badplace.zip
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bc_sp_02.zip
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bdr.zip
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bechhead.zip
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/blakwhit.zip
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/bypain.zip
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cadaver.zip
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cannon.zip
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/castle.zip
levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/ch_retro.zip

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I do find the fact that there's only a "Ports" directory and no subdirs to be an unfortunate lack of foresight, but there's really not much that can be done about it now without breaking every link ever.

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40oz said:

Not sure, but I'm curious to hear what other people suggest, because I too, am not sure (from a player's perspective) what the appeal is for vanilla wads. Limit Removing is where it's at imo.


for me a big part of it is just having a limit, which forces you to make certain design choices, making things arguably easier if you conform rather than try to push the limits all the time. in that way I guess it's like choosing to map for limit removing instead of ZDoom because all the ZDoom features feel overwhelming

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On the other hand, some awesome ideas must be toned down or abandoned.

Does have its charm though, doing things in vanilla. I have this awesome boss planned out that should, in theory, be vanilla compatible. I hope at least one person will stop and think "holy shit, how is this vanilla?"

Hell to Pay and Perdition's Gate are great examples of vanilla sorcery and huge inspirations to some of the shit I think up.

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Boss fight? *Perks up ears*

I must admit that thinking up clever workarounds for vanilla compatibility, while occasionally frustrating, does end up feeling quite rewarding when you finally pull it off. Not to mention some of the cool effects you can create in vanilla(MAP32 of Icarus comes to mind).

EDIT: Imma Staple!

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The problem is many mappers don't seem to understand what limit-removing is. crfe_p1 is "boom" despite the .txt. You won't get far on MAP03 or MAP04 with Doom2+ or -complevel 2...

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Nah, I just went to each wad's /idgames page and looked at the txt file. Ideally, I'd like to start going through each wad and rank them in categories like difficulty, puzzles, fun-ness, weirdness, design, etc. to try and make /idgames a bit more detailed.

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Ragnor said:

On the other hand, some awesome ideas must be toned down or abandoned.

Does have its charm though, doing things in vanilla. I have this awesome boss planned out that should, in theory, be vanilla compatible. I hope at least one person will stop and think "holy shit, how is this vanilla?"

Hell to Pay and Perdition's Gate are great examples of vanilla sorcery and huge inspirations to some of the shit I think up.


On the note of going all out with the vanilla engine, what was the most complex wad(s) that are compatible with it?

It had looked like it was going to be Kdidkizd until that went quiet.

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Batman Doom comes to mind. Also a wad I made a few months back called Operation Hydra.[/shamelessplug]

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I really liked TimeOfDeath's The Room Below, it's a good example of vanilla 3D trickery.

Operation Hydra was good too, I don't think I really appreciated the fact that it was vanilla-compatible when I played it the first time.

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Tango said:

for me a big part of it is just having a limit, which forces you to make certain design choices, making things arguably easier if you conform rather than try to push the limits all the time. in that way I guess it's like choosing to map for limit removing instead of ZDoom because all the ZDoom features feel overwhelming

Not sure if I buy this. ZDoom gives you a lot more features and tools to think about. Limit removing takes things away (the limits). If you're obsessed with "pushing" limit removing ports you're doing limit removing mapping wrong.

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It is, I even thought of that but didn't write it for some reason. It's another good one.

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Suspended in Dusk by Epsi is usually mentioned when talking about vanilla pushing WADs

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Woolie Wool said:

Not sure if I buy this. ZDoom gives you a lot more features and tools to think about. Limit removing takes things away (the limits). If you're obsessed with "pushing" limit removing ports you're doing limit removing mapping wrong.


I think perhaps I didn't write well enough to say what I was trying to say:

if I sit down and decide I want to make a huge, awesome castle map, if I decide to do it in ZDoom I have a great many things to think about and consider adding/using. if I decide to "downgrade" to limit removing it suddenly becomes easier because I no longer have to work things like 3d floors into my design (or at least feel pressured to), or use custom actors, etc.

similarly, if I go from limit removing to vanilla, it is arguably easier (in some ways) because now instead of making some huge ornate, detailed, complex room, I'm limited to what vanilla allows me to do. if it's limit removing, then I could keep detailing for an eternity, etc etc.

I'm not saying it's how everyone feels, nor is it how one should feel (as I think it's really an unhealthy mindset, even though I'm often guilty of it). the point though is that that's one reason one might go for vanilla over limit removing, as there's less to think about (a good number of things you can't do, limits your options, therefore easier to make decisions).

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Tango said:

I think perhaps I didn't write well enough to say what I was trying to say:

if I sit down and decide I want to make a huge, awesome castle map, if I decide to do it in ZDoom I have a great many things to think about and consider adding/using. if I decide to "downgrade" to limit removing it suddenly becomes easier because I no longer have to work things like 3d floors into my design (or at least feel pressured to), or use custom actors, etc.

similarly, if I go from limit removing to vanilla, it is arguably easier (in some ways) because now instead of making some huge ornate, detailed, complex room, I'm limited to what vanilla allows me to do. if it's limit removing, then I could keep detailing for an eternity, etc etc.

I'm not saying it's how everyone feels, nor is it how one should feel (as I think it's really an unhealthy mindset, even though I'm often guilty of it). the point though is that that's one reason one might go for vanilla over limit removing, as there's less to think about (a good number of things you can't do, limits your options, therefore easier to make decisions).


I was recently reminded of one of your Devilution maps, Kyka added an awesome hovering spaceship to the end of it. Completely floored me, as it was one of those "Wait, is this REALLY a vanilla map!?" moments

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Limited options only would sometimes make it easier to make good decisions....because if what you have isn't good enough and it is limiting...you're stuck and nothing you do will be any good and then you can't do what you want to do, at least not very well. I think that last line you said is more theory as I like lots of options and more ways to do things...because if one way doesn't work, I am better equipped to achieve my goals with other options.

I think, it might work both ways....lots of options can be bad if you get overwhelmed by that sort of thing, if you don't then it's good to have them. And if you have limited options then depending on what they are, your decisions could be awful.

But still, I have yet to try all these mapping methods, I'm not well versed in it...I was speaking on more general terms about anything...more choice generally does do well, you just have to know how to handle it.

I'm only really learning what the difference is between these map making methods, I've only made a small handful of maps and only ever made one custom enemy. I don't know if I'll ever go for true vanilla mapping, maybe one day when I'm better at mapping I'll explore different methods

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In basically any creative pursuit, there are many people who thrive on having limitations because it helps them focus towards a goal, and inspires creativity on how to accomplish something within the limitations. The optimal level of limitations varies from person to person though, where getting too strict becomes stifling and getting too permissive becomes overwhelming. And of course there are some people who prefer not to have any constraints at all.

In a way, mapping for Doom at all is a limiting choice, since there are far more flexible engines out there. But it depends what you want to accomplish I guess.

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Indeed, there are limits to everything. I just like to know there are more options out there, just incase the methods I'm using aren't working...I'd rather not have to give up on something earlier than I should.

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Tango said:

for me a big part of it is just having a limit, which forces you to make certain design choices, making things arguably easier if you conform rather than try to push the limits all the time. in that way I guess it's like choosing to map for limit removing instead of ZDoom because all the ZDoom features feel overwhelming


oh yeah I agree with you on that point entirely. Its much easier to map when you have a more focused toolset, and theres a rewarding feeling of completion when you break a limit and tone it down to fit within the constraints and be confident that youve exhausted your resources. I was just speaking...

40oz said:

(from a player's perspective)


... As in I'm not really sure why anyone would prefer to play someone's vanilla map versus that same person making a limit removing map in the same style/theme/whatever. But now that I think about I'm not sure most doom players are actively seeking vanilla-only wads to play unless they play everything begrudgingly in an obsolete source port or something. But its interesting how mapping for limit removing source ports seems to not be a thing anymore. Its like if you're not gonna map for vanilla, you may as well map for boom.

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40oz said:

But its interesting how mapping for limit removing source ports seems to not be a thing anymore. Its like if you're not gonna map for vanilla, you may as well map for boom.

I'd think a large part of this is the prevalence of Boom-compatible ports today. Enough of the commonly used ports nowadays support the Boom feature set that it's easy to choose it as a baseline.

At this point with the ZDoom port family plus PrBoom-Plus and Eternity (and possibly others I'm not aware of) all supporting other additional features like doubled sidedefs limit, MBF sky transfers, ZDBSP extended nodes for more segs, and DeepSea's tall patch format, there's now an even more featureful crossport standard that mappers can play with without having to worry about limiting their audience.

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40oz said:

But its interesting how mapping for limit removing source ports seems to not be a thing anymore. Its like if you're not gonna map for vanilla, you may as well map for boom.

I still like doing limit-removing. I think it's interesting because you're still limited to the vanilla actions/effects without having to worry about vanilla crashes. I think the only times I've made boom maps were for community projects that required boom compat.

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