mouldy Posted May 13, 2014 Map13 - “Obsidian Nightmare" I'd never played this map before, probably because I never got past the opening without giving up. That start is ridiculous, it took me an insane number of deaths to get a foothold in that area. Once I managed to labouriously clear it out and get the yellow and blue keys things went a bit wrong. Mainly thanks to pain elementals filling up the whole map with more lost souls than there was ammo to deal with, and they completely blocked the way forward. So I had to give up. I went on god mode and checked out the rest of the map, looks very cool with the black and orange colour scheme, and the final room looks crazy. But I doubt I'll ever be able to comment on the gameplay because I had no fun playing what little of this map I could, so I don't imagine I will be back. I just hope the last map is better, would be a shame to end the wad on a sour note. 0 Share this post Link to post
Obsidian Posted May 13, 2014 Well, I played it Ragnor. :P MAP13 - Obsidian Nightmare DNF I'm not really a slaughtermap player, but despite dying a hang of a lot I did kind of enjoy this map - up until the Pain Elementals at any rate. I'd have to agree with Mouldy, the PE swarm just eats up way too much ammo. A giant swarm of Lost Souls would probably work better IMO, as it eliminates the random factor. It might also be a good idea to put up an invisible barrier behind the bars in the Revenant room so you don't just snipe them through the bars like I did. :P Hopefully Gazebo fixes the PE problem in the final release. 0 Share this post Link to post
Cynical Posted May 14, 2014 Demon of the Well said:Another running theme is that cyberdemons are very overtly meant to be weaponized in a lot of the fights; this point is made from the get-go with the best way to handle everything behind the first door being to play Blame It All on Cybie, underscored in several later setpieces (the 'three ledges of trash' fight beyond the yellow gate, the giant caco/noble bonanza that takes place in/around the Crazy Revenant Gazebo, etc.) I always figured that this was what the title of the map was referring to, not any particular architectural feature. Namely, that "The Zealous Machine" was "that mechanical and demonic beast that rampages through everything, friend and foe alike". Also, holy shit, Obsidian Nightmare is fucking relentless (well, aside from that one rather pointless Cacoswarm, and that long line of ineffective Chaingunners). Even knowing how to get past the start, I've got no prayer. Those fucking Viles in that tiny fucking arena... fuck. That said, I have to imagine that the visual approach here was a massive influence on Ribbiks's recent "color-themed" works. In particular, the finale of SWTW Map 03 seems like a callback to this map's finale, in terms of architecture at least. 0 Share this post Link to post
dobu gabu maru Posted May 14, 2014 Fell a touch behind; it's pretty rough to try and catch up on these maps. MAP12: I really enjoyed this one. The wood, metal, and red theme reminded me a bit of Hollow Icon, and the gradual increase in the scale of battles just drove that point home. However this map turns the dial up to 10 with some really intense and large arenas, and is more clever in how it handles its hordes (like with the teleporters being on the outside of the final arena). There wasn't a fight that stuck out to me as poor (perhaps the cacos after the yellow key switch are unnecessary) and I had a good, rough time overall. I bolted from the final fight as soon as I could though, since I wasn't going to spend my time cleaning up 1000 left over monsters. 0 Share this post Link to post
Devalaous Posted May 14, 2014 Obsidian said:Well, I played it Ragnor. :P DNF I guess your nightmare continues on ^_^ I thought this was the best map in the set, visually. I don't bother with slaughter, as I don't believe in it full stop, so I doubt I'll ever play it for real. I might play your mapset though. Depends if im in a Dooming mood those days. I cant just pick this game up and play it anymore ._. 0 Share this post Link to post
Demonologist Posted May 14, 2014 Map13 - “Obsidian Nightmare" Visually striking indeed, but actually this map provokes mixed feelings. The only part that feels complete is the beginning (and maybe the ending, though spamming AVs and cybs isn't, like, an activity that requires much thinking to be put into it), but everything from there feels weird, like if almost all of the fights in this map were put as a placeholders, so raw and brainless they are (oh yeah, fill that Pale Monument-like area with just imps and no one else and put shotgun shells everywhere; is it fun? sure as all hell it is, fun my ass). This doesn't complicate things that much once you know the order of things, so that the only issue you can have is bad luck (ah, my favorite, luck is a mean bitch), but notably affects the flow of the map. As a result - very inconsistent experience, even though in a lovely surroundings. This map needs some serious polishing gameplay-wise. Map14 - “Hive Mother" I'm somewhat confused. Dark caves filled with bumpy hexagons, ssg-only action ahead with lots of heavyweights and archviles that are always ready to make your double barrels overheat after constant shooting at revived beasts, like if killing them once at such a slow rate wasn't an achievement already; inescapable pits with narrow paths; absolutely ridiculous battle with cacos\revs\AVs in a small quasi-circular room with almost no cover where your only hope of survival is that AVs get distracted by others; lazy final fight that does a bad tribute to Deus Vult, sort of like 'grab the invul and face the ridiculous amount of AVs and cybs, have fun hahaha'; strange usage of space where some big open areas remain empty and some get filled with barely threatening groups of enemies. Oh yes, rev/cyb/manc encounter is decent, and manc/chaingunner/cyb clusterfuck is not really much to my liking but at least it's somewhat entertaining in its frantic nature, but these are just a little bits in the narcotic puzzle that is this map in its entirety. In the end - I don't know what to say. I tried to like this map, but so far my love is lukewarm at best. I can't say I hate it, either, there's some charm to it despite all the annoying and downright stupid FUCKING GARBAGE found in here, and in great quantities. So, a map of many colors it is, don't let the homogeneous color scheme fool you. True colors always come from experience and through the prism of perception. 0 Share this post Link to post
mouldy Posted May 14, 2014 After reading what Demonologist says about map 14, I've decided to stop there with Sunder. I had a go just now and it seems like just surviving the start will take me ages, and after doing to same on map 13 only to get to an unplayable point I'd rather not risk wasting the time on it. There are some good maps in this set, and they are all pretty spectacular in a visual sense. There are some maps that feel a bit lacking in gameplay terms, where battles are either too simplistic or demand you learn a specific tactic for survival, and while I can appreciate a challenge I like to have a bit of fun at the same time. The maps that get it right in my opinion are 1, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8 and 11, and of the remaining maps there are only about 3 or 4 I wouldn't bother playing again. In a lot of wads that would be enough to put me off the whole thing, but the gems in this one make it worth returning to. For anyone who enjoyed bits of this but found some of it too frustrating or grindy I would recommend combat shock 1+2, which I think I might have to go and play right now. 0 Share this post Link to post
dobu gabu maru Posted May 14, 2014 MAP13: Wow is that start mean—the AV in particular is especially troublesome as he can hit you unless you dive into the tunnel which is clogged with some big mean red shit. This rough start is nothing compared to the horrendous Pain Elemental spamming that plagues the level though. I know Gazebo must enjoy the brown cyclopses, but they’re no fun to fight in groups and here they show up at some pretty inconvenient times, reducing your mobility to zero as they hack up skulls. I had to camp multiple times in this map and found those tussles to be no fun, praising the lord when AVs were spammed up my ass instead. The final three areas had some fun fights, although it didn't really wash out the grime in my mouth from all those PEs. Man is this map a beauty though. I like the metastructure of the the Cage of the most but Obsidian Nightmare has the best detail by far, boasting multiple gorgeous rooms filled with sinister nooks and crannies. The final room is especially jaw-dropping, being a massive room bursting with strange glowing machinery and containing a pretty cruel AV infestation. Definitely a looker, and worth going through in -nomonsters if you're not a fan of the gameplay. 0 Share this post Link to post
Demon of the Well Posted May 15, 2014 Map 13 -- Obsidian Nightmare - 104% Kills / No secrets Perhaps the most structurally and thematically abstract of all the maps in the set, Obsidian Nightmare gives the vague impression of crawling around inside of some kind of boiler or radiator unit, built around/partially from some kind of massive crystal geode deep within the planet's fiery bowels (as to which planet, don't ask me); the only view of 'sky' here is from the strange lava-bound imp colony, and this vista of a vast, empty molten expanse suggests more that the whole thing is inside of some incredibly vast cavern than anything else. Like the grandscale square-jawed architecture of map 11, the heavy use of the radiant, solid-color (orange, in this case) anonymous texture to accent the various structures is one of Sunder's most defining and most imitated aesthetic traits; in combination with the riveted iron and dark/muddy dirt and rock textures, this should indeed look very thematically familiar to those who have played some of Ribbiks' recent major releases, as Cynical pointed out. Despite the generally vibrant presentation of the map's visual theme, however, it does have a couple of areas which look kind of poor to me, the biggest of these being the featureless lava-ceiling in the area surrounding the puzzlebox fight. In most of these cases I think that different lighting choices would probably help immensely, as has been the case with many of Sunder's less visually impressive areas. The Duke3D midi used here (can't remember which map it's from) is less gratingly monotonous than many of the other selections in this last part of the WAD, but it loops very poorly. From a play perspective, this map has a strangely 'arcade-y' feel to it. Demonologist has said that most of the fights feel like they're placeholders; I don't think that's how I'd put it, but I do see what he means, in that there is a certain lack of stylistic cohesion between the different battles, other than that a few of them make use of deep, narrow slits in the floor that monsters can't smoothly navigate around. Now, as we've all seen, a lot of the Sunder maps have certain themes or gimmicks to the combat that tends to dominate within them (e.g. the cyber-weapons from map 12, the V-sphere segments from map 09, the crusher segments from map 04, etc.); I think the aforementioned piecemeal feeling of this map is attributable to the fact that the gimmick in this one appears to be gimmickry itself, perhaps with a bit of cheap nonlinearity on the side, as at a couple of points you get to pick which of two fights you want to do first (although you always have to do them both before you can move on). Most of the major fights are based on one very specific concept, be that concept having to stay ahead of the spawn rate of the PEs at the far end of the initial area, being stuck in a corner and hounded from about 300 degrees of threat in the puzzlebox fight(s), having to avoid being stuck between arch-vile tagteams in the darkened tunnel 'maze', or whathaveyou. There's a lot of variety but usually not a whole lot of depth on display at any given point, so as a whole it almost feels like a collection of Doom-based minigames or something, rather than a single flowing campaign. So, a bit stilted, but it didn't really bother me because I spent little time on it--I was able to clear it on the first attempt this time, in fact. Over the years I've seen a lot of debate about the map's difficulty relative to other maps in the set, but I've never had too much trouble with it. Major sticking points seem to be the opening two minutes or so and the PE clusters. I suspect the problem a lot of folks have with the opening is that they overthink it; granted there's theoretically a lot of different things you can try here, and trying to do this from a speedrunning mindset it is pretty damned dangerous. Assuming you're not concerned about optimizing your time, though, the solution is simple--pick up the weapons and ammo, and then go fight the Barons in the tunnel with them (I prefer to pass them initially and fight from the mancubus-plugged side, rather than the cyb-covered side, although opting for the former inevitably aggros more of the HKs at him if you want to take that tack). It's sort of dangerous in that small space, I guess, but really not very difficult, and should you fail you're only 5 seconds from trying again anyway; and once you win, you can work out from that tunnel at your leisure, mostly stress-free, since the terrain is generally very unkind to monsters in the area. As to the PE hordes, the simple answer to both of them is (perhaps somewhat counterintuitively) rocket splash. The first one, all you need to do is stand on the plasma rifle ledge or the other metal lip across the way, and fire rockets at the PEs as soon as they start coming into view and until they stop spawning (once in a while you may have to SSG a soul or something); since they are concentrated in the lava well and not able to move or attack efficiently while they're in it, this approach is devastating to them, with every shot you fire wounding or killing 1 or more of their number. The second PE horde in the puzzlebox area is best handled simply by ignoring them and fucking off promptly into the box; the cybers outside will almost always do away with most of them as a side-effect of hissy fits they inevitably throw about being inadvertently nipped by lost souls. The final fight is the most potentially fun if you fight like a man (a really feverish game of hide and seek before the vile population gets thinned out), but it is also incredibly easy to cheese/exploit if you want or need to do so, simply by standing around by the first switch and letting errant rocket splash evoke a riot down on the ground level. While it does feel like it lacks a certain cohesiveness, I don't really dislike the map, mostly because I think its more simplistic, smaller-scale encounters make a good intermission between the absurdity of map 12's monster floods and the more stressful, staccato pace of map 14. 0 Share this post Link to post
NuMetalManiak Posted May 15, 2014 i assume that since it's the 15th here, we are now starting Countdown to Extinction, two maps per day. my standard settings here are, GZDoom v1.4.8.762, double ammo, UV, no mouselook but still using the mouse for movement, autoaim on. I just got a brand new mouse, so this should be good. MAP01 Contact Hmm, now that's a music track I've never heard past TNT MAP11 before. Anyways, it's another Entryway redux, with imps and zombiemen with nothing to note other than a 3d bridge. MAP02 The Yard I'm trying to get used to my new mouse's strafing keys, so I had some problems at the beginning but ended up okay still. After plundering the cages I danced with a tomato as other demons tried to eat him. 0 Share this post Link to post
dobu gabu maru Posted May 15, 2014 ^ Yup, it's time for Obsidian to shine. I just finished up Sunder so I'll jump in soon. MAP14: While this isn’t Gazebo’s intended final map, Hive Mother comes off as a pretty worthy finale. It’s by far the most intricate and impressive map, boasting a pretty wild and hexagon-intensive design. I still think Obsidian Nightmare is more aesthetically pleasing, but it's impossible not to be impressed with the demonic beehive. There's quite a lot of uneven terrain here and it can be to the detriment of the player often, specifically when you're sliding around in the manc, chaingunner, cyber room. Luckily it’s not a long one and there’s only a handful of encounters, although the last two fights are defined by the AVs juggling you back and forth while Doomguy wears his blaring white goggles. Not too shabby. Overall, I was surprised with how much I didn’t enjoy Sunder. Now I did have a lot of fun with it and still find the architecture and themes to feature some of the best stuff ever seen in Doom (and likely ever to be seen), but going in I was anticipating being floored by the combat. Instead I spent a lot of time not engaging enemies and cleaning up some pretty unthreatening mobs, and questioning the spammy use of PEs and certain AV placement. The maps still feature some of the biggest battles even by slaughterfest standards (MAP11 takes the cake here), though sacrificed in its stead is some meticulous balance placed into the battles. That still doesn't diminish the fact that Sunder is one hell of a mapset to experience, and does a fantastic job staying away from symmetry for the most part. Favorites were MAP07, MAP10, and MAP12, while least favorites were MAP05/MAP09 for gameplay and MAP06 for difficulty. 0 Share this post Link to post
Salt-Man Z Posted May 15, 2014 Yay, CtE time! Per usual: GZDoom, HMP, continuous, keyboard-only. MAP01: Contact Not much to say about this one, other than I blitzed through it 100% in 1:35. I had played through it once before (upon downloading, as you do) so I more or less remembered what to expect. I'm not sure I even took a point of damage this time around. MAP02: The Yard Two maps in, and the only thing I can really note about the set is that it sure seems Obsidian likes random, ugly, 3-D bridges. :P Anyway, I was pretty reckless here, and as a result I took a lot of hits from the crossfire of imps and zombies—plus the occasion lucky shot from the shotgunners I didn't even know were up in that tower until later. The caco posed no problem, but I still exited in relatively bad shape. Fun level. 0 Share this post Link to post
Ribbiks Posted May 15, 2014 Demon of the Well said:The Duke3D midi used here (can't remember which map it's from) is less gratingly monotonous than many of the other selections in this last part of the WAD, but it loops very poorly. If you haven't, you should really watch this movie (this is the track the midi is based on): 0 Share this post Link to post
Magnusblitz Posted May 15, 2014 Good place to jump back on, got a bit busy and couldn't catch up on Sunder given how ridiculously packed its levels were. MAP01: Contact 100% kills | Time 0:47 Yeah, not much to say about this one. It feels a bit like a "Baby's First 3D Bridge" demo map spruced up. Not really feeling some of the details here, such as the silent horizontal-opening door at the start, or the piston that just kinda sits there and pounds nothing. MAP02: The Yard 100% kills | Time 2:04 This is a bit better, I like the teleporter progression here. The step texture used for the 3D bridge/ceiling/platform/whatever here is pretty exceptionally ugly though, I agree - should've used the steel/silver step texture, I think. 0 Share this post Link to post
dobu gabu maru Posted May 15, 2014 Magnusblitz said:Good place to jump back on, got a bit busy and couldn't catch up on Sunder given how ridiculously packed its levels were. Yeah, I feel like now that I'm done with Sunder I finally have some free time. Going from +2 hour behemoths to <2 minute maps is quite the difference. MAP01: Uhhh that was a thing. Level was too direct and short to really have an opinion. MAP02: Hey, now here's an actual map. You're surrounded and have to make the best use of the pistol that you can, although with only low tier units harassing you its not too bad. Neat little details here and there, like the exit doors "sliding" apart. 0 Share this post Link to post
mouldy Posted May 15, 2014 I played Countdown to Extinction a couple of weeks ago so I'm going to sit this one out, but I highly recommend it. Very short, inventive and varied maps. 0 Share this post Link to post
Obsidian Posted May 15, 2014 Yay, my maps! MAP01: I'll admit that this map is way too simplistic: I made this one while on Skype with General Rainbow Bacon(he was making a one-hour map at the same time, funnily enough) and he said that I definitely spent too much time on detail. It isn't horrific by any stretch of the imagination, but it isn't that good either. MAP02: I believe this was one of the last maps I made for CtE. Computer was being an asshole the whole time. //_- It's alright though, definitely better than MAP01. 0 Share this post Link to post
plums Posted May 16, 2014 Magnusblitz said:The step texture used for the 3D bridge/ceiling/platform/whatever here is pretty exceptionally ugly though, I agree - should've used the steel/silver step texture, I think. Going for vanilla compatibility means there's only a few step textures that work for 3D bridges - the STEP1 through STEP6 textures won't work because they're made from more than 1 patch. The wad mostly uses Doom 2 textures, besides the sky and a few other things. 0 Share this post Link to post
Magnusblitz Posted May 16, 2014 Having never actually made a level with a 3D bridge, I was actually thinking after I posted that it might be only a few textures can be used (since I only ever see STEPTOP used for bridges). Thanks for the info. 0 Share this post Link to post
plums Posted May 16, 2014 Yeah, just STEPTOP, STEPLAD, and NUKE24 (which looks even worse!) work, everything else is too tall or made from multiple patches. Interestingly, for Doom 1 some of the STEP textures are only 8px high, and work fine as 3D bridge textures because they're only one patch. Anyhow, I think I'm about to go play Sunder finally. I'll probably comment on the CtE maps that I particularly liked or have something interesting to say about, too. 0 Share this post Link to post
Demon of the Well Posted May 16, 2014 @Ribbiks: Oh yeah, I've seen Blade Runner, definitely. Didn't recognize the midi though, apparently. Makes me wonder which Duke3D track I thought it was....actually, I think when I heard it back when I first played Sunder, I recall thinking it was the track from the castle keep segment of Castlevania SotN, which is.....even farther off the mark, to say the least. Map 14 -- Hive Mother - 105% Kills / No secrets To be honest, I wasn't looking forward to playing this last map. It has some dreadful (in more ways than one) moments and the starting segment has that 'wading through a ball pit in Hell's Chuck E. Cheese' feeling to its player movement that defined most of map 06, but in the end it went a lot smoother than I thought it was going to, pretty clear sailing once I hit the imp horde past the weird little fence (although I did fuck up the V-sphere fight in the little outdoor pillar forest once, being knocked into one of the inescapable lava pits nearby). Of all the battles in the map, the one that gave me the hardest time was actually the lost soul/HK trap by the yellow key, of all things, probably because I kept messing up against the last viles in the caves and therefore kept going into it wounded. The two fights that I remembered most going in were the final crass V-sphere orgy (fun fact: first time I saw the map it took my dumb ass approximately 7.4 eternities to realize there's a sphere in the center of the room when you start) which is only a problem if you get lazy/greedy/cowardly and use the second sphere before you've thrown the first switch, and the ridiculous revenant cave. I don't think the former battle is as artful as some of the similar encounters earlier in the WAD (mainly because the battle space is really just a big empty box in this instance), but it doesn't stick in my craw or anything. The revenant cave, though, fuck that. It's not too difficult/unreasonable to do what you need to do in there or anything, but cleaning out the staggered rev-perches is a royal pain in the ass and feels like a misuse of one's time far beyond what some of us experienced in cleaning up all the monsters in the final battle of map 12....so, for all of the many inefficient switch combos Gazebo has employed throughout the WAD to ensure that players must endure at least a few minutes of his encounters, this was the only such device that proved necessary in my case. I'd have played all of the other encounters of my own free will, but I'd have skipped this one in a heartbeat given half a chance. It's kind of hard to say just what the defining concept of this level is, apart from the hexagonal/honeycomb theme that defines its construction, of course. Most of the fights are redolent of ideas done earlier (and often better, IMO) on in the WAD; if anything, I'd posit that maybe the unifying thread here is just simple intimidation factor...you start hemmed in more tightly than in any other map in the set (even map 13), and a lot of battles employ monster teleportation to abruptly dump shit on you with little preamble, in contrast to the sort of stage/wave/stream flavor of a lot of the WAD's other battles. Of course, intimidation is mainly a psychological thing, and once you grit your teeth and stop asking 'how the hell am I supposed to do THIS' and just start doing it, it's usually not half bad. The cyber/commando/manc battle, for instance, looks incredibly dangerous but usually goes pretty well once you figure out the best way to consistently start infights that allow you to take cheap shots at the cybs. It's another very interesting offering on the visual front, of course; the titular 'Mother' is presumably the vaguely face-veneered final battle space (embarrasingly, I think this playthrough is the first time I've ever noticed the sinister flashing face-thing behind the screen inside the chamber), and the irregular caves and terrain formations seem to suggest that perhaps the whole adventure takes place in and around the fossilized carcass of some giant alien creature. That so many of the terrain features and layers of detailing on structures and in vistas are comprised of hexagonal 'sticks' lends it a fascinating peculiarity that makes it feel very different from most of the other maps, despite not being as strongly themed in the battle department as most of them. I'd say it's most reminiscent of 'Dreaming Garden', which had a similar impression of being very organic in structure yet paradoxically artificial in arrangement (or maybe it's the shared tendency for bumpy floors, heh). Whatever the case, while it may fail to make the most pronounced (or most consistently enjoyable) impact from a gameplay perspective, Hive Mother certainly sees the WAD out on a strong note, aesthetically. ******** I think I'm going to refrain from saying too much about Sunder as a whole at this point, since I've already done a lot of that in the level writeups anyway AND out of some irrational and ever-fading hope that I'll get to do it again 'properly' someday, when the WAD is complete. Love it or hate it, Sunder is absolutely a watershed WAD in the ongoing history of PWADing, from both gameplay/choreography and aesthetic perspectives. While I think some later WADs have taken a more consistently strong stab at this general genre of gameplay, and I don't unconditionally adore all of the game content here, there are only a couple of maps in it so far that I really don't like, and there are a few that I greatly enjoy every time I return to them, which is something I'll probably continue to do in years to come even in the tragically likely scenario that Sunder never progresses any further. Gameplay aside, the evocative power of Sunder's architectural style and visual presentation are undeniable; most of the little blurbs I wrote about the settings earlier on were not something I had to actively come up with in the course of this playthrough, but based on various thoughts I've had while playing the maps in the past--I_G certainly knows how to stimulate the imagination even as he's attempting to grind the body into a nasty red slurry. Favorite maps in the current iteration of Sunder are 03, 11, and especially 08 and 05. 0 Share this post Link to post
dobu gabu maru Posted May 16, 2014 Demon of the Well said:[...]feels like a misuse of one's time far beyond what some of us experienced in cleaning up all the monsters in the final battle of map 12.... Indeed. Those revs, the rev horde perched in MAP11, the leftover legion in MAP12 were the only monsters I neglected to kill out of the whole wad because it felt would take a huge chunk out of my time with little effort, thought, or fun involved. Also congrats on making it through MAP13 without a death; it still shocks me how talented some of you guys are (I thought such a task was nigh-impossible). MAP03: The surprise lift with the chaingunner awaiting the player at the bottom was super cute, might be something I'll purloin for future projects. Otherwise it was a comfy map. MAP04: I like the use of the arachs here, as I've rarely dealt with them in close quarters with the SG before, finding it fun to strafe a single plasma shot before I get to fire again. That was definitely the highlight, though it was still overall more exciting than the previous maps. Personally, because the maps are so short, it doesn't matter if some don't hit the mark because none hang around long enough to be offensive, and I'm always jazzed to see what clever tricks are employed in the next map. 'Spose I gotta wait though... perhaps I'm still jet-lagged from Sunder's extensive outings. 0 Share this post Link to post
plums Posted May 16, 2014 So, Sunder. I know the plan was to not mix comments for the two wads, so I apologize that I'm doing it a little backwards. But I wanted to wait until I knew I'd have some long blocks of time to play this, and not have to play the larger levels across several sessions. I'm playing UV pistol starts, as I feel that this is probably the intended way to play. Saving often of course. If things get absolutely impossibly hairy I might switch to continuous, or go down to ITYTD, or just cheat a bit, but I'll cross that bridge when it comes. MAP01 starts simply enough. I rather liked it in fact, the enemy swarms aren't huge and there's a lot of space to run around in. The green theme works nicely, and I like the way it all starts smaller-scale but then opens up to a large outdoor area with some less conventional design. Perhaps a metaphor for the wad in general. The AV trap at the end was clever, and not too hard to beat if you rush back there fast enough. MAP02, as has been pointed out, plays a lot like the previous map. While I don't think it looks bad at all, it's certainly a very conventional set of texture choices. The mouth is nice though. I started off playing on complevel 2 (the text file says "limit-removing" only) but the Hell Knight arena doesn't work properly - I thought something was off when I went into an empty room and the only resistance was that I had to walk along the sides of the ledges. Oh well, wasn't too hard to get back to that point. One thing I was not expecting with this map was to run out of ammo entirely. I was just going to go right for the exit, but on finding a berserk pack, decided to punch out the last few revenants. I don't know if I was supposed to keep one of the cyberdemons alive, but I didn't feel like I was overly wasteful with ammo. Anyhow from what I've heard, MAP03 is where things really get going, so I'm excited (and a bit worried!) to see what's in store. 0 Share this post Link to post
NuMetalManiak Posted May 16, 2014 MAP03 The Database Little more interesting but not by much. Even the revenants weren't bad. Nice secret. MAP04 Tripwire A level where arachnotrons are ACTUALLY a threat. Good job. Also the revenants at the exit sure make a cramped map even more interesting. 0 Share this post Link to post
Magnusblitz Posted May 16, 2014 MAP03: The Database 100% kills | 1/1 secret | 2:27 Unlike The Person Formerly Known As Hurricyclone, this actually tickled my fancy quite a bit. Nice lighting, good look with the computer blocks, decent ambushes (I like having the revenant face away), and even a secret this time around. Incidentally I took way too many hitscanner potshots and ended up finishing this map with exactly 1 health. MAP04: Tripwire (Avoiding tripwires) 80% kills | 0/1 secret | 1:34 (Triggering them) 100% kills | 1/1 secret | 1:57 Nice little map, I actually triggered the first "tripwire" without even noticing, and the first arachnatron didn't seem like that big of a deal, but then I noticed the tiles... heh. The second one is the biggest threat, but nothing too bad. The ammo they take up is the biggest concern. Decent little map. 0 Share this post Link to post
Obsidian Posted May 17, 2014 MAP03: This one was one of my better outings, I think: personally I reckon I managed to get a decent balance between detail and gameplay in one hour. It's not too special, but I think I did good. MAP04: Expect quite a few concept maps like this in CtE. :P I liked this one quite a bit as well, if only for the gimmick. Highly recommended. 0 Share this post Link to post
ella guro Posted May 17, 2014 as promised, i'm doing a playthrough of Countdown to Extinction: Map 01 - Contact: there's cool little visual details but structurally not very interesting. i didn't find this map particularly memorable at all tbh. Map 02 - The Yard: i like the teleporter key areas with the imps and the outdoor mini-arena setting. structure and visual theme is still kinda boring to me in spite of the details, but it's not bad either. Map 03 - The Database: the opening fight was kinda cool. i liked running for the shotgun on the raised platform and that the central lift area was locked off by a key. obvious reminder of E1M7. revenant usage was good. still not crazy about the gray techbase visual theme at all but maybe it will go somewhere further. 0 Share this post Link to post
plums Posted May 17, 2014 I remembered that earlier I'd planned on replaying Countdown to Extinction with Crispy Doom's new -fliplevels feature (taken from Strawberry Doom, apparently) that flips the levels around for some variety. So I guess I'll do that and comment on each map a bit. MAP01: like other people have said, there's not much to this, but I think it sets the scene for the rest of the wad pretty well. Gameplay focused around one concept per map, small map sizes, strong visual themes. And also lots of 3D bridges, and monsters in the exit room. Definitely a map that works better as part of a whole than on its own though. MAP02: Interesting little layout, and good reuse of a small space. The teleporting action is nicely done. I made a bunch of pacifist demos for CtE, this map is one that I never completed despite feeling like I should be able to do it. MAP03: I agree with Obsidian that this is a good one. Being an early map the gameplay is still not too intense, but there's a few surprises in here. While helping to squash bugs for CtE, a few common problems came up, one of which is "putting linedefs in sectors that are supposed to move stops them from moving in complevel 2." This problem first came up on this map, on the revenant platform that lowers when you get the yellow key. MAP04: Kind of a frantic start. I only figured out recently that you could actually lower the shotgun column, since you don't need to do so in order to get it. Arachnotron traps are nicely done without being too hard - though I haven't tried on -fast yet, wonder how that will work. 0 Share this post Link to post
plums Posted May 17, 2014 Sunder MAP03: Very interesting and stylish level. I skipped the first room entirely as soon as I figured out how, correctly assuming I could come back later once infighting had done a bunch of work for me. After that there were a series of difficult but not abysmally hard encounters, each with a fair amount of room to run around in. The concrete construction theme is really nice - I'm comparing it mentally to that one long map in Vile Flesh that used the same texture sets for most of it, but had far less interesting geometric structures and texture details, making it much less interesting to look at. The wooden room is a bit too plain in comparison, in my opinion - that's such a standard set of textures, and with brown being such a neutral colour, it just seems a bit boring. There's a small corner in the map with a skintek structure, and using these kinds of textures in a similar square pattern would have been much more interesting and more cohesive with regards to the rest of the map. I'm really liking Sunder so far. I'm not normally too much of a fan of slaughtermap gameplay, but the level designs here seem to work with you rather than against you, at least for now. There's always lots of room to move around, and places to hide, and infighting is usually instigated fairly easily. And while I'm sure it's only going to get harder, the difficulty level is currently manageable for me. Sure I'm dying a lot, but I'm fine with that; that's what saves are for. A lot of the time when I play overly hard maps I just get the feeling that the level is trying to crush me beneath its boot heel, and here I'm not getting that kind of vibe at all. (...yet?) 0 Share this post Link to post
NuMetalManiak Posted May 17, 2014 MAP05 Demanufacture Glitchy map. That 3d bridge blocks monsters from crossing to me, which allows me to just punch demons in most cases. That elevator leads to a ton of monsters, so I decided to lure them up to the higher ground. Oh, also, I'm supposed to shoot some reactors, to kill Keens, and they're supposed to blow up, but I shot all four and no explosions occurred. I did hit the Keens though. Must be an autoaim error on my part. The final revenant was easy because again he can't get across to me. Gotta be careful with those bridges mate ;). MAP06 Time Bomb I canonically thought this was a timed map, but it actually isn't. Some combat until after the red door, then I have to press the correct switch or I'm dead. Pressing the correct switch kills a Keen and opens up the mapset's first archvile along with the exit. He isn't tough, just let him resurrect shotgun guys and chip away while getting as much ammo as possible. Text screen jibberjabber...I see a jab at Ichor, a "Portal Facility", and "four higher demons". Isn't the archie high enough? :p 0 Share this post Link to post