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Doomkid

Leading into map33, map34 and map35? [DOS]

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So, I've heard multiple times that vanilla Doom has support for a map33, map34 and map35. While I haven't put this to the test, I have no reason to think it's untrue.

However, I have two questions: Is it possible to have music playing in these maps under the DOS executable?

EDIT: Yes, it is! Map33 uses READ_M, Map34 uses DM2TTL, and map35 uses DM2INT.

Additionally, is it possible to have the exit switch of map30 somehow lead to map33, or some similar sort of trick?

I'm really curious about this one!

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Doomkid said:

Additionally, is it possible to have the exit switch of map30 somehow lead to map33, or some similar sort of trick?

Not in vanilla. Not even in Boom. No. Exits (and secret exits) are hardcoded for particular maps, as well as the game end.

Either IDCLEV cheat, or ZDoom's MAPINFO alterations are the only possible ways to access level 33 and above.

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On a slightly different note, I believe having secret exits on different maps from the originals in Ultimate Doom can lead to you either skipping maps or going through them twice. Just some food for thought.

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You can also use -warp to get to 33-35. But no, not from another level in vanilla.

I don't know if any ports that support the BFG edition of Doom 2 (which had a new secret exit to MAP33, from MAP02) and don't have a MAPINFO type lump can be made to go to MAP33 from MAP02 normally, without using the BFG edition iwad.

Obsidian said:

On a slightly different note, I believe having secret exits on different maps from the originals in Ultimate Doom can lead to you either skipping maps or going through them twice. Just some food for thought.


In Doom 1/UD, the secret exit will always take you to ExM9, regardless of which map it's on. So yes, you can skip (or repeat) maps that way.

In Doom 2, secret exits on the 'wrong' map just take you back to MAP01. I wonder if anyone's ever used this to creative effect...

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plums said:

I don't know if any ports that support the BFG edition of Doom 2 (which had a new secret exit to MAP33, from MAP02) and don't have a MAPINFO type lump can be made to go to MAP33 from MAP02 normally, without using the BFG edition iwad.

This would simply mean to remove the check for the BFG Edition in the respective code. Would that help anybody? The level progression would still be hard-coded MAP02->MAP33->MAP03, though.

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fabian said:

This would simply mean to remove the check for the BFG Edition in the respective code. Would that help anybody? The level progression would still be hard-coded MAP02->MAP33->MAP03, though.


I think that would be cool. Even better if entryway accepted it for PrBoom+ so it was a bit more cross-compatible. But maybe it would result in a surge of small mini-episode wads of 4-5 maps, with secret levels on MAP02 always, which could annoy some people.

If this does get implemented you should probably at least check for the presence of a valid MAP33.

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plums said:

I think that would be cool.

Thus it's in GIT now. ;)

Even better if entryway accepted it for PrBoom+ so it was a bit more cross-compatible. [...] If this does get implemented you should probably at least check for the presence of a valid MAP33.

I proposed exactly this solution to Andrey last November, i.e. check for presence of MAP33 and adapt level progression accordingly instead of restricting this to the BFG Edition only, but he rejected. Understandably, he was concerned about compatibility and stated that the proper handling of the BFG Edition should probably get a dedicated complevel.

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Only map33 is playable in vanilla, either with -warp or clev, until you exit (then it crashes). The others crash.

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plums said:

In Doom 2, secret exits on the 'wrong' map just take you back to MAP01. I wonder if anyone's ever used this to creative effect...


As Grazza said it actually takes you back to the start of the level unless you warped or IDCLEV'd. It still could possibly be used purposesly though, like allowing the player to replay a level with different weapons maybe?

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TimeOfDeath said:

Only map33 is playable in vanilla, either with -warp or clev, until you exit (then it crashes). The others crash.

Just tested this - Maps 33 - 35 will run fine until the exit switch is pressed, playing the titlescreen and intermission music files on repeat.

It begs the question, why does this functionality exist at all, even if it's partially broken? Why is warping to map33 - 35 even possible?

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Doomkid said:

Just tested this - Maps 33 - 35 will run fine until the exit switch is pressed, playing the titlescreen and intermission music files on repeat.

It begs the question, why does this functionality exist at all, even if it's partially broken? Why is warping to map33 - 35 even possible?

The original coding for the idclev cheat allows all the way up to MAP40. Who knows why, though. Maybe they just didn't know exactly how many maps there would be in DOOM II and set it conservatively high so as not to have to keep changing it - and as a result, forgot to adjust it back down before release.

Notably, this was changed either in Linux Doom itself or by Bernd Kremeier, as the source release limits it significantly.

It is also similarly notable that there's coding in Ultimate Doom to allow for a fifth episode, and maps placed on E5Mx slots can be visited successfully, though with various similar glitches, not the least of which is AASTINKY being used as the sky texture.

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Quasar said:

It is also similarly notable that there's coding in Ultimate Doom to allow for a fifth episode, and maps placed on E5Mx slots can be visited successfully, though with various similar glitches, not the least of which is AASTINKY being used as the sky texture.

Very interesting. Do ports support this?

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TimeOfDeath said:

34 and 35 crash for me with doom.exe v1.9.

I recall claims that Final Doom was more accommodating in this respect than 1.9. (I've never tested, since it seems silly to me to use map slots that are basically broken.)

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TimeOfDeath said:

34 and 35 crash for me with doom.exe v1.9.

That is so odd, for me, doom2.exe handles them. I'm also running 1.9.. Now I'm extra confused.

Quasar said:

It is also similarly notable that there's coding in Ultimate Doom to allow for a fifth episode, and maps placed on E5Mx slots can be visited successfully, though with various similar glitches, not the least of which is AASTINKY being used as the sky texture.

Jeez, this just keeps getting more interesting. Is any music played in these maps? Is it possible to exit without crash? Does e5m3 lead to e5m9? I wish I were at my PC, this whole phenomenon is quite weird.

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Doomkid said:

So, I've heard multiple times that vanilla Doom has support for a map33, map34 and map35.

It's not "supported" as such, but it works by a series of lucky coincidences.

To an extent, anyway. It crashes when you exit the levels.

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Doomkid said:

It begs the question, why does this functionality exist at all, even if it's partially broken? Why is warping to map33 - 35 even possible?


Like Quasar said, the coding allows for warping up to MAP40. The reason 33-35 work is because of the way Doom handles music tracks. Gez explained it well here. but the short version is that the readme/title/intro music tracks are listed in the code after the normal Doom 2 music, and so when you warp to 33-35 Doom 2 still finds a valid music entry for that level.

@Grazza: thanks for that clarification.

@fabian: cool :)

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Grazza said:

I recall claims that Final Doom was more accommodating in this respect than 1.9. (I've never tested, since it seems silly to me to use map slots that are basically broken.)

I've searched but can't find the final doom exe, any help?

btw, how many of you guys have actually tried warping/cleving to 34/35 in vanilla? Because so far it works for Doomkid but doesn't work for me. I'm using doom.exe 1.9 with winxp (no dosbox).

IDCLEV
doom.exe = 33 works, 34/35 doesn't work
chocodoom 2.0.0 = 33/34 works, 35 doesn't work
prboom-plus 2.5.1.3 = 33/34/35 doesn't work

WARP
doom.exe = 33 works, 34/35 doesn't work
chocodoom 2.0.0 = 33/34/35 works
prboom-plus 2.5.1.3 = 33+ works (100+ works too)

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I've just fired Dosbox and tried to idclev/warp to maps 33-35 in doom2.exe v1.9 and Finaldoom's doom2.exe and everything was alright. Warps to maps33-35 were successful, idclevs to same maps were successful as well. Though exiting on maps34-35 with stock IWADs results in crash with V_DrawBadPatch (or something like that) error.

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Beginner said:

Though exiting on maps34-35 with stock IWADs results in crash with V_DrawBadPatch (or something like that) error.

That's because for these maps there is no patch containing the map name graphics that are displayed on the intermission screen.

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Obsidian said:

On a slightly different note, I believe having secret exits on different maps from the originals in Ultimate Doom can lead to you either skipping maps or going through them twice.


Yup, I once accidentally put a secret exit switch on E1M1 and the level repeated infinitely. 'twas on Doom95.

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