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Fellowzdoomer

Syaira - 32 Map Megawad WIP - Episode 1 End in Sight! [3 and a Half / 32]

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OK. I'm making a 32-level megawad (maybe I'll stick with it longer than Plutonium) entitled "Syaira"

=== The Story ===

For nearly 30 years, the UAC has been carefully retesting solid matter teleportation. Ever since the first invasion, UAC Security has been boosted up with heavier weapontry. Recently, UAC Staff have been working on a top secret project entitled "Syaira" in an attempt to contact old Deimos and Phobos bases. For a few months, all is fine.

Until...

Despite your warnings, the staff didn't listen to you, and carried on with Syaira. One day, the transmission from a security guard crackled. He said that enemies of a new invasion are breaking through. Quickly suiting up, you are sent to the old Phobos base first to terminate the Syaira Hunters. Throughout your mission you will cross through Invasion Generators. Good Luck!

=== Map List ===
Not finalized...

01 - Welcome Back
02 - Water Processing
03 - Security Tower
04 - The Sewers


=== Download ===

Sadly, the opening post decided to chop itself up, so I'll update once The Sewers is done.

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Fellowzdoomer said:

Please let me know of your opinion!

Okay. Let's look at the first level. Hmm, this is very bad...

Already the start room has some wonky floor detail which doesn't make much sense, the only purpose I can see is to drag the player if he decided to slide along walls of that room (for any silly reason).

Your level gives a literal meaning to the term "linear map design". The map is one long, curved corridor with groups of monsters (usually of the same type). Honestly, it would be hard to make a less interesting level progression.

Detail level and usage, texture choices and combat are all very unsatisfying, to say at least. Words like "dull" and "flat" are fitting the map too.

Even the ammo is unbalanced. I didn't have enough to deal with the pinky demon horde. After that, I entered the last room, where I got packed with tons of shells, but no further combat happened. That's wrong.

----------------

Please understand that I'm treating you with honesty, and without an intention to put you down. Well:

You don't seem to be able to come up with interesting level design yet (and I'm not going to believe that you are able, unless you actually show it). Good mapping needs more work and care to be put into the layout structure and gameplay. Things to work with are: interconnected structures, usage of height variation, light variation, eye-pleasant texture choices, detail (preferably detail that influences and "improves" playability) also thought-out, interesting and satisfying fights.

You're at the start of a long way, if you want to be able to make good maps. Keep practicing and learning ways how to effectively use your editor to achieve better results. You eventually will. I'm looking forward to the moment when I actually see a design from you which will impress me. I wish you good luck.

ADVICE - aim for a quality, rather than quantity. A 32-map megawad of levels like this one will turn out pretty shitty. Getting only one really good map would be a countless-times better achievement for you.

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Considering how you said you never had enough ammo for the horde, I'm guessing you didn't find the one secret? I'll put more ammo and remove that start room design.But am I getting better at mapping, Master Yoda? :-p

What can I do to fix the dullness and flatness?

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Fellowzdoomer said:

What can I do to fix the dullness and flatness?


Come up with better layouts maybe?

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Fellowzdoomer said:

Considering how you said you never had enough ammo for the horde, I'm guessing you didn't find the one secret? I'll put more ammo and remove that start room design.But am I getting better at mapping, Master Yoda? :-p

What can I do to fix the dullness and flatness?

I did find the SSG. Even then, I didn't have enough ammo. Also it's wrong when secrets are required to beat a map. Specially MAP01, where you cannot have ammo from previous levels.

I don't think your map can be salvaged ("fixed") to magically turn out a great one. Dullness and flatness are fixed by making an interesting, varied map, and that goes best if you count with such a design from the beginning. In the third-to-last paragraph of my post, I gave you some tips of what makes the good design. Try to take my advices into account when making your next map. Consider to make a reasonable balance, interesting environment to move around, fights that are challenging and not as simple as just shooting everything in front of you... Overally to prepare a comfortable experience for a player who likes Doom gameplay and who had already seen a lot.

I know it's not easy to manage. Specially not for beginners, specially not for people with bad editing tools, and specially not for people of such a young age as you are. But it is your aim to learn to map good, isn't it? If you keep trying, you'll eventually get it right.

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Are you still mapping on Android? I think it will be VERY tough to make something that will please most modern players this way, if you care about that at all. Anyway, I enjoyed it because it actually almost killed me: I ran out of ammo so had to try to run past the demons, entered a room full of shotgunners with nothing but my fist and just barely survived there. Good moment. I thought the first room looked cool btw, interesting\unorthodox effect with the outer circle being darker.

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Memfis said:

Are you still mapping on Android? I think it will be VERY tough to make something that will please most modern players this way, if you care about that at all. Anyway, I enjoyed it because it actually almost killed me: I ran out of ammo so had to try to run past the demons, entered a room full of shotgunners with nothing but my fist and just barely survived there. Good moment. I thought the first room looked cool btw, interesting\unorthodox effect with the outer circle being darker.


Yeah, but I got a new android that's better than the last. Kyocera Rise. Ill fix the ammo and health issue. The outer area is meant to.be brighter so...

[QUOTE]walter confalonieri said:
map crashes on zandrodum when i tried to played it...

error text is: "map has 24 unused sidedefs - sidedef 208 has a bad sector"
[quote]
Sorry. Ill fix that, too.

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Fellowzdoomer said:

And who, scifista, told you I was a beginner[/I]?


This is clearly a beginner's effort.

just played it, nothing much to say. just a series of rooms connected by long hallways with not much to look at. gameplay is kindda pointless because you dont have enough ammo to beat the demons even with the secret SSG. you don't even have chainsaw/zerk...

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Fellowzdoomer said:

And who, scifista, told you I was a beginner?

Your age.

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^^Ive been mapping since 2008 (Happy New Year! First crao wad.) When i was known as "Barney Calhoun".
^Lets not go there. Please.

I'm updating the wad so that its fair now.

Do you guys love taking chainsaws to pinkys teeth?

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I don't know why you'd include the W.I.P. of MAP02 in the download but ok.

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Hey don't shoot me down. I followed a rule of map01.Simplicity. I don't think that the first map should be a huge E1M4 corn maze. Level 2 isn't gonna be linear. Do you all hate linear? Ill work on nonlinear maps if you wish.

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Fellowzdoomer said:

Hey don't shoot me down. I followed a rule of map01.Simplicity. I don't think that the first map should be a huge E1M4 corn maze. Level 2 isn't gonna be linear. Do you all hate linear? Ill work on nonlinear maps if you wish.

I say map how YOU want, create how YOU want it to look. You don't have to make amazingly detailed maps just make them interesting to navigate instead of what happened to MAP01 where it's literally a number of rooms with a number of demons and nothing else to look at.

Look at Entryway, or Hangar, relatively linear with only like 2 or 3 deviating paths but they were interesting to navigate, had some height differences in them, etc.

That's all really.

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Fellowzdoomer said:

Hey don't shoot me down. I followed a rule of map01.Simplicity. I don't think that the first map should be a huge E1M4 corn maze. Level 2 isn't gonna be linear. Do you all hate linear? Ill work on nonlinear maps if you wish.

It's not because it's simple, it's because it's a boring, hideous tunnel run. 'Hangar' was simple. 'Entryway' was simple. But they served a purpose and didn't have about as much texture variation as Mandrill Maze.

Fellowzdoomer said:

=== Fun Fact ===

The title Syaira is actually a typo. It is a typo on the word Stairs, so the wads name is really Stairs, but nobody wants to play a wad named Stairs.wad, right?!!

After seeing this demo, I'm not sure I want to play a WAD named Syaira.wad.

For the record, Stairs.wad does actually exist. And it looks like this:

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Archvile78 said:

I say map how YOU want, create how YOU want it to look. You don't have to make amazingly detailed maps just make them interesting to navigate instead of what happened to MAP01 where it's literally a number of rooms with a number of demons and nothing else to look at.

Look at Entryway, or Hangar, relatively linear with only like 2 or 3 deviating paths but they were interesting to navigate, had some height differences in them, etc.

That's all really.


There's obviously a problem with how i want to map. I understand, I did ask for opinions and stuff, but its almost as if I'm making Hells End The Megawad (you remember my infamous wads, do ya?)

Also, didn't know there was an actual stairs.wad. Apologies if the creator is surfing this.

What would you like to see me do in this megawad? I REFUSE TO GIVE UP!

What did linear ever do to you anyway? Bully you when you were a kid?

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Fellowzdoomer said:

What did linear ever do to you anyway? Bully you when you were a kid?

No, and I don't have issues with linear segments when they're fun. But when linear is comprised of long runs down empty featureless corridors it sure does bore me.

As a really lazy example and because I have nothing better to do at 3AM, I took some liberties or whatever the fuck and edited your first map for the sake of condensing what I could be bothered with condensing. It's still largely a joyless venture, but at least stuff's going on all the time and isn't a series of empty corridors and flow-killing Demon packs.

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Fellowzdoomer said:

There's obviously a problem with how i want to map. I understand, I did ask for opinions and stuff, but its almost as if I'm making Hells End The Megawad (you remember my infamous wads, do ya?)

Also, didn't know there was an actual stairs.wad. Apologies if the creator is surfing this.

What would you like to see me do in this megawad? I REFUSE TO GIVE UP!

What did linear ever do to you anyway? Bully you when you were a kid?

No i don't remember your infamous wad because i only returned to this forum very recently.

stair.wad date back to 1997 and there's like 3 or 4 stairs wads.

Absolutely don't give up, just soak up suggestion/criticism while some will sound harsh its just part of mapping.

Play FPS these days and you'll see why linear is so grating, especially in a game like Doom where level design was solid all around and how simple it is to design basic level.

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Fellowzdoomer said:

Any late android fps?

I don't play on Android so i wouldn't know, anyway im done derailing your topic.

I'll say this sorry if i sounded harsh and as i said don't give up whatever happen, you'll improve your mapping in time. Let this megawad be a learning experience on how to make interesting layout and accepting feedback/suggestion.

EDIT: Also take a look at Baron's edit, he only made minor changes for flow/pace purpose and that's what you should strive for.

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I think the best way to learn would just be to play a lot of maps and study the ones that you enjoyed and see why you enjoyed them and start learning about what made certain maps better than others.

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