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FireFish

The quake players thread.

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BaronOfStuff said:

Was using FitzQuake (http://www.celephais.net/fitzquake/), it's pretty much GLQuake with general bugs and bits of uselessness fixed although it's since been superseded by QuakeSpasm (http://sourceforge.net/projects/quakespasm/)


I know both FitzQuake and QuakeSpasm and I actually prefer FitzQuake because it performs a lot better on my low-end machine. I consider FitzQuake "the Boom of Quake".

BaronOfStuff said:

As for GL_Flashbend, I didn't even check the settings when I started recording -- it's the default for some dumb reason. When I (eventually) get around to Scourge of Armagon & Dissolution of Eternity, it'll be set to 0.


I assume the reason was performance. Dynamic lighting is very demanding as far as rendering goes and if I remember correctly not many people could afford hardware capable of running Quake full speed (72 frames per second) when the game was originally released. Simplified dynamic lighting was probably what people wanted anyway to gain those frames so id left it as the default setting. Obviously, nowadays a vast majority of computers can render dynamic lighting of higher quality (GL_flashblend 0) without much trouble, so there is no need to use the variable anymore.

BaronOfStuff said:

While I really do like Quake, I never really got into the RJ'ing and Bunnyhopping side of things (and it shows). I've always played it like "Doom with Mouselook", only jumping when required by level design and ignoring most of the 3D movement possible (such as shortcuts) within levels.


Bunnyhopping in vanilla Quake is very hard and not so flashy due to engine's limitation of physics. There is a brief moment of "braking" the player whenever they hit the ground. This "braking" was removed in Quakeworld (among other things) to simplify the physics and thus increase performance in Internet games... and it allowed for those awesome bunnyhops otherwise unachievable in vanilla Quake :D

Creaphis said:

Now let's forget about setting for a bit, because I have a different question. Is there a market, even a small market of indie fans on Steam, for a brand new shooter on an engine like Quake's?

Giving your game a "retro" aesthetic seems to work great for platformers, top-down RPG's, and Minecraft, however you choose to categorize that. However, I can only think of a few shooters released in the last decade in the Wolf3D-to-Doom tech range (most of them freeware and based on the Doom engine) and I can't think of any new 3D shooters with a low-polygon presentation besides Wrack, which isn't making any money. Is there a possible shooter with chunky, count-the-polygons models and simple environments that would actually get people to open their wallets? Also, are Quake fans even all that likely to buy a Quake-level game if it came out? After all, there are already thousands of high-quality Quake mods you can play for free if you're into that kind of thing.


I doubt such a game would achieve a major success. First of all, I think most people agree that "nice sprites beat ugly models". 3D models for DOOM have been available for quite some time in source ports such as Risen 3D. How many of you prefer those models to sprites? I reckon not too many.

The second reason is that the Quake community is VERY hermetic. I actually partially blame them for id's lack of success with post-Quake 3 games. This community was always the first to bash new titles, basically with the sole reasoning being "this is not Quake". On this forum we talk about all the DOOM games, ranging from the original PC release, through console releases (PSX, N64) up until BFG edition. Good luck talking about Quake 3 on Quake 1 forum etc. Hell, even Quake and Quakeworld have SEPARATE communities. Quakeworld has its share of imbalances in the weapons department - the thunderbolt is WAY overpowered, because it comes from a time when hardly any computer could run the game smoothly enough for the weapon to be a real threat. Watch some early Quakeworld demos - everyone used mainly the rocket launcher. So the thunderbolt became too strong due to hardware advancement, but the community doesn't want to balance it, because that's "against tradition".

Thus, I don't think a new "Quake engine" game could be really successful. It would either be called too ugly, or "too different from Quake" and "too different" starts as soon as you alter the default textures.

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i was planing to play that before my GFX card and MOBO took a dive...
Looks like those maps are beyond quake though.

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plums said:

On that note, I love the Trent Reznor soundtrack, and have never really heard anything like it. Anyone have any recommendations? The closest I've found are a pair of albums by an experimental musician called Jeff Greinke, Cities In Fog 1 & 2. They're not quite as dark but they give off a similar mood. Here's a track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MZV77TDjkQ


I think it will be hard to find something close to the quake nine inch nails soundtrack and effects.

http://www.adnoiseam.net/adn183
The tracks of interest ;
- Infiltration
- Outpost
- The Sinners Lie In The Forest (excerpt)

On that site you might as well find an artist close to what you are looking for.

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@Patrol1985

I'm sure there's a niche audience for a Quake 1-3 engine game if done well. Someone could easily use Quakespasm and make high quality pixel art assets for textures, and then scale them up in nearest 8x so that you can keep the crisp pixel look while taking advantage of anisotropic filtering. Definitely have more detailed environments and models, lighting and dynamic shadows are important.

As long as it's a compelling and high quality game that was cheaper to make than what one ends up selling, I fail to see the problem. People will buy all sorts of stuff. People like these retro shooters, why not just use a GPL engine and make a new one? And yes, I do mean commercially.

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plums said:

On that note, I love the Trent Reznor soundtrack, and have never really heard anything like it. Anyone have any recommendations? The closest I've found are a pair of albums by an experimental musician called Jeff Greinke, Cities In Fog 1 & 2.



http://www.entity.be/entity/
You should definitely press play on the music player bellow the [NTT079] Orgatanatos - Chrome Reflections
album, or any album in general.


http://www.adnoiseam.net/adn183
This is a bit rough compared to the above, but it might be relevant ;
The tracks of interest are Infiltration, Outpost, and The Sinners Lie In The Forest (excerpt)

i know i bumped a relatively old thread but i was browsing for non conventional music and
thought about plums his reaction to this from months ago...

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I know, I know, old post. Not that old.

Patrol1985 said:

First of all, I think most people agree that "nice sprites beat ugly models". 3D models for DOOM have been available for quite some time in source ports such as Risen 3D. How many of you prefer those models to sprites? I reckon not too many.

Models for Doom are typically very amateur. There's a difference between a bad model that doesn't work and a low-poly model.

The models in Quake are already much better, simply because the characters are adequately shaped and animated (plus the game was actually developed with 3D characters in mind). They have their problems, but these problems are mostly related to the shittiness of the tools used by id at the time. With modern tools (such as Blender) it's even easier to produce an aesthetically pleasing low-poly model.

But, of course, a game with such graphics won't be mainstream. Ugly or not, big polys are not very missed today.

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Started to use DirectQ only because it's the only port that doesn't bugger out to my fast mouse. (Mouse stutters during any mouse movement with Quakespasm and Darkplaces with Win8 :( )

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I used to run WinQuake. It was rather annoying on Win 8.1 but I dealt with it.

Truth be told the only reason I play with Darkplaces is because of the Ultimate Quake patch that is around the internet. Not that I can't do it myself, but I like the convenience.

I've always been a bigger Quake 2 and 4 fan for...whatever reason. I run Quake 2 with KMQuake2 (for the same reason as Quake 1; ult. patch), and Quake 4 I run vanilla.


Quake 3 I either play Quake Live or Open Arena; I rarely play Quake 3 by itself.

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Sodaholic said:

@Patrol1985

I'm sure there's a niche audience for a Quake 1-3 engine game if done well. Someone could easily use Quakespasm and make high quality pixel art assets for textures, and then scale them up in nearest 8x so that you can keep the crisp pixel look while taking advantage of anisotropic filtering. Definitely have more detailed environments and models, lighting and dynamic shadows are important.

As long as it's a compelling and high quality game that was cheaper to make than what one ends up selling, I fail to see the problem. People will buy all sorts of stuff. People like these retro shooters, why not just use a GPL engine and make a new one? And yes, I do mean commercially.


It all sounds logical in theory, but until I see an actual game get released I will remain unconvinced. FPS is just a very specific game genre. Retro platformers etc. are popular, but I yet have to see retro FPS make it big.

BlackFish said:

Started to use DirectQ only because it's the only port that doesn't bugger out to my fast mouse. (Mouse stutters during any mouse movement with Quakespasm and Darkplaces with Win8 :( )


Nothing wrong with that. DirectQ is a VERY good port. Perhaps the best optimized port for Quake.

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I only play some weapon mods when I was a kid. idk the names of them. I only can remember 1. Well, you can spawn bots and one of your weapons was a mace. When you died, (if I remembered correctly), a sound clip can be heard. One of my favorites was "Put your pants down!" I think that was one of them. I was like 9.

Port I use is EngineX because of the Hi-Res graphics.

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I mostly still use WinQuake (though I really should just switch to TyrQuake for software) and Quakespasm. DirectQ is a good engine too, but I've never found myself using it regularly.

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i do not think so, but i might be wrong.

edit ;
Wow, quake multiplayer has dropped hard, even since since last year...

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I've been playing a lot open arena , after some cpma. Recently trying boost my duel elo in QL but i suck ;_;. Also i am big fan and supporter of reflex. (reflexfps.net)

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The map jams from func_msgboard have been pretty fun so far. I've been noticing though that the difficulty in quake's a bit easier than doom in general though (might have to do with the lack of hitscanners).

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Claw Van Helsing said:

Anybody noticed that Shub-niggurath looks like a giant white sea aenome but there's her, the dragon and Aragon so who's really in charge?


I always understood from the plot that Shub-Niggurath was the "main" badguy whereas Armagon and the Dragon were its subordinates leading other legions in the invasion.

capodecima said:

I've been playing a lot open arena , after some cpma. Recently trying boost my duel elo in QL but i suck ;_;. Also i am big fan and supporter of reflex. (reflexfps.net)


Where are you from capodecima? I'm from Europe so if you're as well we can play some QL duels :D

What's your ELO out of curiosity? Mine is 1389 with my all-time best being 1432.

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Sorry if this is blasphemy in a form, but I only got into Quake three days ago by getting Quake Live (my name is Kapanyo). :/

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I've been a huge fan of Quake since the late 90's. Played it on the Saturn, PSX, and the N64 in addition to the PC. I always thought that the game was a hell of a lot creepier than Doom. I also thought that it had much more atmosphere. My only pet peeve was the fact that the enemies seemed much weaker than the Doom enemies, save for the Shambler.

I still play Quake I and II to this very day, and I own the originals on CD with artwork still intact. I love using the Darkplaces engine to run Quake I, and I use Quake II Evolved for Quake II. I do quite a bit of modding for the Quake games, as well. Modding Quake II is how I learned how to make DLL's from scratch. I never really got into Quake 3, but I've always loved Crash, and she became the inspiration for my own Doom Girl protagonist.

Has anyone tried Your Path of Destruction? It's an interesting Doom 2 TC done in Quake I, or as I say, Doom in Quake. It is interesting for what it is.

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I just started playing Quake maps again too. Found some great things here:

https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/

This is the best castle map ever:

https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/something_wicked.html

Worth the download just for the start map. Eternal Doom ain't got nothing on this one.

Tons of great maps.

Warpspasm and "A Roman Wilderness of Pain" (Arwop.zip) are amazing too.

E: The mapjams are amazing too. My favorite being the second one with all the Middle Eastern architecture.

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i played through Quake once some months ago, and was amazed with how well the gameplay flowed. there's a lot of focus on movement and jumping around, and the levels are actually really well-designed to me at least. sure it's brown and depressing, but i think it only fits the bleak atmosphere in the game.

contrast this to Quake 2, which was one of my favorite childhood games, and it's inferior in so many ways. the movement has been stripped down considerably; you move around very float-y, and you can't jump around like a madman anymore. furthermore, the gun-play is considerably less interesting, and not as satisfying as the first Quake. and then there's the inventory system, which turns boss-battles into complete jokes! the only really redeeming feature of the game nowadays, to me, is that it still has a somewhat pleasing aesthetic to it, and the music, but other than that, i can't believe i found this game to be so great way back then.

Quake 3 Arena isn't bad... it's just that it's a multiplayer game, and i don't have much interest in them unfortunately. i did play Quake Live sometime ago when it didn't get shit all over, and it was fun i guess. not enough for me to return to it everyday, but it was still enjoyable for what it was.

Quake 4 i have no opinion about as i remember next to nothing about the game.

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Breezeep said:

Did you try using the latest version of quakespasm?

I am unable to play it because of other ordeals not related to engines.

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Doomhuntress said:

i played through Quake once some months ago, and was amazed with how well the gameplay flowed. there's a lot of focus on movement and jumping around, and the levels are actually really well-designed to me at least. sure it's brown and depressing, but i think it only fits the bleak atmosphere in the game.


The game stil feels good, and it created a swampy rusty wet atmosphere like you would expect with true set piece magical forests and worlds in old 70's and 80's movies. To me they succeeded more in creating that atmosphere than many newer games.


Also ;
Does anybody know about any good quake mods having a good, wet, old wood, swampy, enclosed canyons thing going on as with some of the original maps, or could you recomend anything like that ?

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I think of all the Quake games, the original is my favorite. I hope someday id software returns to it.

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