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Breezeep

Stuff that annoys you in the DOOM Community

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A bunch of newfriends that are changing this place into a freaking kindergarten.

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Sodaholic, you seem to be a decent guy. Plus, I have liked your maps. Best of luck toyou.

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Sodaholic said:

I hope that I actually have improved and that it's not just in my head.


I don't know you from your past behaviour at all, but you seem like a fairly considerate & articulate poster from what I've noticed. So I think you're probably succeeding.

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mrthejoshmon said:

I'm guilty of this one.


Well, thats a bit awkward, considering your part of the project I'm co-leading :p

You've been pretty good though with communication. With Revilution I make sure everyone is in the loop for whatever is going on, and my inbox is pretty much always full of messages exchanging ideas, files and such, and any human error "whoops I forgot" stuff is quickly fixed. Its probably why the project has grown as fast as it has. Some projects though, just don't really communicate well and the project suffers for it (not to mention it drags it out much longer than it should). Sometimes its the leader, sometimes a few mappers or a composer. It's something I'm making sure doesn't happen to us.

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Sodaholic said:

"is this the best thing to post, or should I post at all?"


this is actually how I feel whenever I post here too, because I'm always paranoid i'll get some backlash from somebody from just one innocent sounding comment. only difference is that I haven't angered a whole lot of people. but I'm always looking at hypothetical scenarios that could happen.

mrthejoshmon said:

I also kind of dislike that guy/girl/bot who likes to copy paste that "DOOMWORLD WAD REVIEWERS" paragraph on /idgames, I use the recent votes to see if anything particularly good/epically shit has been recently found/played and the fact that I have to wait for some man babies butthurt remarks to clear off before I can do that is a tiny inconvenience but nothing really major.


who is this guy? I ask because he actually targeted one of my WADs with his "I CONDEMN WAD REVIEWERS" or whatever weird shit he posted there (which I bet has been deleted now).

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Ragnor said:

Well, thats a bit awkward, considering your part of the project I'm co-leading :p

Don't worry, only when I am the project leader is when I am truly guilty of said thing.

I actually started to get annoyed at all the pointless "Is this project still up" crap that started to pop up every 2 or so days in the WOOO 2 thread :/

Getsu Fune said:

who is this guy? I ask because he actually targeted one of my WADs with his "I CONDEMN WAD REVIEWERS" or whatever weird shit he posted there (which I bet has been deleted now).

It appears to be some either sad individual or some kind of bot (And with the spambot check feature, I doubt it is a bot) which just posts the same copy paste shit on as many wads as possible, wouldn't be surprised if it was that Big Rob guy or one of the many other internet badasses this community seems to attract.

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plums said:

I don't know you from your past behaviour at all, but you seem like a fairly considerate & articulate poster from what I've noticed. So I think you're probably succeeding.


I can echo this. When I came out of my DW hiatus shortly before I became a Devilution tester (thus tied to DW from then on), he was already banned. Whenever I came across his remnant posts I couldn't understand why. Its clear hes a passionate Doomer with a lot of big ideas and concepts and strong ideals, I guess those ideas just clash strongly with others?

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I don't want to make this thread about me, though I feel that I should say a few things.

VGA said:

Why did you get banned from Zdoom Sodaholic?

This is how I see it.

The specific event that caused my ban on ZDF was when I saw some unimportant thread had gotten locked (don't remember the subject, I think people were arguing about Microsoft or something) and made a small remark about something someone said that I thought was harmless, and a bunch of people just jumped on me. I was getting extremely tired of people on there treating me like some kind of criminal and lashed out, and Wild Weasel warned me for that. I sent him a PM telling him "fuck this place, I'm tired of it, ban me" and so he did.

I still quietly but passionately resent the ZDoom forums for its drama sensitivity, mob-like behavior and the facade that they're somehow more "civilized" than here. In my experience, I've found that while DW is harsher on newer members, people are actually laid back and don't take themselves too seriously. At ZDoom, it felt like almost anyone was willing to make a mountain out of a molehill, or even thin air.

I would never return to ZDF even if given an opportunity to do so.

Some background info pertaining to what led up to all this:

For a while, I was helping PDF develop TSAT, though in retrospect, I could and should have gone about it in a far better way. Since PDF was very busy with his life at the time, he didn't have much time to devote towards its development, and I had contacted him asking to help since I saw something that I thought looked interesting and had potential. For about a year I was the only one doing anything with the project, but I was a bit too eager to further develop the TC.

I tried to remain on the same page with PDF, as I really didn't want to take the project in a direction that he didn't want to (I honestly didn't feel any sense of ownership over the TC, just an overwhelming urge to polish and develop as many details as I could). Thing is, I never really got a very clear idea of what PDF wanted. I would try to ask as many questions as I could over PM, but would often have only a handful of them answered and not to sufficient detail.

Sometimes, I would go ahead and implement an idea anyway just to try it out and see how well it worked in the game, thinking that if PDF didn't like it I could just as easily remove it in an instant, though I don't recall actually explaining that last part to him. I would also post too frequently with WIP stuff and publicizing the project more than he wanted me to, which was incredibly stupid of me.

Though the above is my fault and I should have conducted myself better, PDF would frequently become frustrated and write long rants about me, publicly, on the ZDoom forums. While I may have been publicizing whatever new/tweaked assets that I did too much, I didn't appreciate him publicizing and making drama of these things instead of just working it out privately. I never wanted conflict to become drama in any shape or form. So, the collaboration failed because of poor communication, basically, much of it my fault for lacking patience in awaiting responses.

In the aftermath of all of that drama that I never wanted to happen, I think a good portion of the forumgoers, merely seeing drama, jumped to conclusions and exaggerated my wrongdoings, forming some kind of unspoken public grudge against me, despite not knowing any of the details from behind the scenes.

Later on I was feeling a bit resentful that much of the drama had caused a lot of ZDoomers to turn against me, and I leaked a very unfinished copy of TSAT out of spite, internally and secretly blaming PDF for it. In retrospect, it was extremely stupid for multiple reasons. One is that it's far more of the retarded community's fault for reading into things too much and making judgements based on assumptions and exaggerated extrapolations. The other reason is that even if my misplaced blame wasn't misplaced, it's still wrong to pull bullshit like that.

I've been thinking lately that I should write an apology letter to PDF, but I suppose I've just written a public one. While at the time I felt bad about it only for the consequences that I brought upon myself, I've come to actually feel bad about how I've affected other people and realize that I have no one else but myself to blame.

Getsu Fune said:

this is actually how I feel whenever I post here too, because I'm always paranoid i'll get some backlash from somebody from just one innocent sounding comment. only difference is that I haven't angered a whole lot of people. but I'm always looking at hypothetical scenarios that could happen.

For me, it's more that I'm trying to hold myself to as high of a standard as I can. I am embarrassed for the (often deliberate) poor quality of my posting years past and felt that it doesn't actually reflect who I am.

Ragnor said:

I can echo this. When I came out of my DW hiatus shortly before I became a Devilution tester (thus tied to DW from then on), he was already banned. Whenever I came across his remnant posts I couldn't understand why. Its clear hes a passionate Doomer with a lot of big ideas and concepts and strong ideals, I guess those ideas just clash strongly with others?

No, the issue was that I kept making a clown of myself for my own entertainment out of boredom.

j4rio said:

A bunch of newfriends that are changing this place into a freaking kindergarten.

It's not nearly as bad as it is over on ZDoom. Just my opinion, of course, and a very biased one at that.

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j4rio said:

A bunch of newfriends that are changing this place into a freaking kindergarten.

Maybe an admin should give them a sub-forum to hang out in, "Happy Doom Friends" or something like that.

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I'll be honest, I've never been on the ZDoom forums before. But I've had some bad moments on the Zandronum forums. The majority of people who post threads came across to me as rude and immature. Doomworld has its fair share of morons too, but not as bad. People there are just cocky and stuck up. Especially the brutal doom zandronum diehard fanboys (and I don't mean to be beating a dead horse about that).

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GreyGhost said:

Maybe an admin should give them a sub-forum to hang out in, "Happy Doom Friends" or something like that.

A rebranding of the Losers forum maybe?

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When someone uses a term or acronym that you don't know, and you have the audacity to ask what it means. You check back a day or two later and instead of simply informing you what it means, people act like you're not cool enough to know what it means and like they were born with this information and didn't learn it from anyone or anywhere else. It's as if, in A Christmas Story, instead of Ralphie realizing the secret decoder ring isn't such a big deal after all, he instead started a Little Orphan Annie secret decoder ring club and scoffed at anyone who didn't know they were supposed to drink their Ovaltine. I feel a mix of contempt and pity for these people if being part of an in-crowd on such things is really that important to them. If they just do it for amusement, the pity still remains for having an 8-year old's sense of humor.

Also when you look through the last 5 or 6 pages of topics to see if something has been discussed recently, it hasn't, so you start a new thread about it and someone loses their mind and links you to a thread from 4 years ago where the topic was discussed. Holy fuck oh em gee sorry.

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Patrol1985 said:

Odamex revived the oldschool gameplay for a while, but it seems it's mostly dead now.


I know this is late, but you really should idle in #odamex on OFTC more often. There are a lot of people in there that love to play classic Deathmatch.

And when I say "idle" I don't mean go in there, ask for a game, wait 5 minutes, and leave. Seriously just leave IRC open the entire day, it's not going to malfunction and cause your computer to BSOD.

(That last mini-rant was not aimed directly at you Patrol. There are just a lot of people that join and quit immediately :P)

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VGA said:

Why did you get banned from Zdoom Sodaholic?

That is a long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long (etc.) story. I decided to check the User Notes on him from ZDoom's moderator control panel and found that it's nearly four pages long, consisting of ten or more administrative warnings and two temporary bans spanning from late 2010 to early 2012. Having just looked back at the moderator forum, I found this:

On Feb 19, 2012, sodaholic wrote:

Bah. All I wanted to do was say my two cents that I didn't have the chance to say in the other thread, and leave it at that, I didn't want people to respond to it.

My memory is kinda crappy, but since when do I do this all the time?

EDIT: You know what? I don't fucking give a shit.


I am merely posting this to keep the record straight.

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Having been lurking DW for a longish while before registering, there's this tendency for DW to go all poor-man's-Something-Awful that I'm really not fond of at all.

Somewhat related -- though I found more of it on Zandronum -- there's all the edgy internet badasses who edgily toss around their edgy shit. Were there only one reason for me to recommend the ZDoom forums, it's that I've never seen them tolerate that crap.

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there's nothing that actually annoys me about the doom community per se, except that it's too freakin' small if you consider what milestone the doom games actually represent for pc gaming in general.

edit: it also annoys the heck out of me that there's no major multiplayer community for doom. (admittedly i think that doom could use some tweaking in multiplayer to remove some of the instant kill scenarios)

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While I'm here, I think I could stand to weigh in on something.

Lately, it really feels like I've been playing the role of ZDoom Community Ombudsman. The folks that get banned from the ZDoom forums - for various reasons, generally just because they racked up way too many warnings for things like flaming, trolling, spamming, or otherwise being idiots - wind up coming here (or Zandronum) to complain about it. Yes, they do wind up getting banned or Losered here as a result (I've seen a pretty hefty number of such threads get filed off to Post Hell...), but for some reason those sorts of people have given ZDoom this weird reputation as a Nazi-moderated kindergarten where nobody's allowed to step out of line, ever, except for a select few who are "immune."

The problem is, a lot of the stuff that happens at ZDoom isn't easy to quantify as a moderator. Some of the people who get warnings or temp-bans are, in fact, respected members of the community who just happened to get mad at the wrong time or otherwise made a poor behavioral decision. (I can think of at least one major, highly-respected community member who is still permabanned at ZDF, on that note.) It's difficult to really make a warning "stick" when people are just as likely to PM me and argue about the warning as they are to accept that they did something wrong and maybe they shouldn't do it again in the future. (A certain someone in this thread, whom I shall not name, stands as a shining example of the former.)

I would like to get this out, though: if you feel you've been unfairly warned or banned from the ZDoom forums, feel free to contact me here if you can't reach me anywhere else, and I'll see about solving the problem somehow.

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Vulture said:

I know this is late, but you really should idle in #odamex on OFTC more often. There are a lot of people in there that love to play classic Deathmatch.

And when I say "idle" I don't mean go in there, ask for a game, wait 5 minutes, and leave. Seriously just leave IRC open the entire day, it's not going to malfunction and cause your computer to BSOD.

(That last mini-rant was not aimed directly at you Patrol. There are just a lot of people that join and quit immediately :P)


No offense taken. I just don't have time to wait a whole day to play a game. I would much rather leave a message saying "I will be online at this and that time, MSG me if you want to play", but I'm too technically inept to do so :P

Besides, lately I've been thinking that perhaps I'm too old for multiplayer anyway. If one tries to play a multiplayer game, regardless of the title, without training regularly they will only end up frustrated (from my experience).

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Doomkid said:

...Wut

I said fuck grandmothers once in jest and she pounced on me via PM communicating her pity for my existence.

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WildWeasel said:

(I can think of at least one major, highly-respected community member who is still permabanned at ZDF, on that note.)

Presumably the one I banned for spamming and trolling about 5 years ago, back when I was moderating the place on my own. Can't say I did a particularly good job of doing that, in hindsight, seeing as I fuelled that particular incident and then had to firefight when it got way out of hand. Oh well, it's long in the past now!

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zzzornbringer said:

there's nothing that actually annoys me about the doom community per se, except that it's too freakin' small if you consider what milestone the doom games actually represent for pc gaming in general.

Agreed!

edit: it also annoys the heck out of me that there's no major multiplayer community for doom.

Duuuude, you need to download IDE and use it with Odamex, Zandronum and ZDaemon - there's often about 200 people online at any time between the 3, and IDE is amazingly easy to use. It even comes with built in IRC that auto connects to the main Doom chat rooms!

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Technician said:

I said fuck grandmothers once in jest and she pounced on me via PM communicating her pity for my existence.

So what?If you can be annoying,so can I.Pity?So what?Live with it.

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grouchbag said:

So what?If you can be annoying,so can I.Pity?So what?Live with it.


Maybe Technician was abused by somebody's grandmother? Perhaps he has that Gilf Syndrome and all he needed from you was a touch, a caress, and an attaboy. Instead, grouchbag, you SLAP him in the face. Poor Technician.

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Krispy said:

It disheartens me that half the people on this forum have assburgers.

lol epic win :^)

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