Doom & Music

[Zed]

Hi there fellas, it's me again.

First of all, let's get this out of the way: I don't like music while playing Doom. And I feel bad about it. I know that mappers put a lot of effort creating their midis/mp3s/etc. so that they can "fit" the level, so just turning it off seems, at the very least, disrespectful. But I just don't like it.

Now, I do like music. A lot. In fact, even though I never play with music on, I like to hear what you guys do, but not while playing. Why? Well, it's not easy to explain, so forgive any mistakes I may commit.

One of the things that make Doom (or Heretic, Hexen...) so atmospheric is the "immersion" that the game provides (something essential in FPSs if you ask me). I like going through a level hearing the demons' breathing, lurking around, and for some reason, I think music just breaks that. I mean, I can't imagine Doomguy blasting demons and zombies while "wearing headphones" for example. Now, there are exceptions to this (very, very few come to mind; one of them is Foreverhood), but in general, I feel music distracts me when I try to hear where demons are, where they are coming from, and so on. But something tells me I'm in a tiny, small, microscopic minority.

So, my questions are:

Why do you like music while playing?
Any of you share my point of view?
What do you think of people like me, who basically "ignores" (not really) half of the work put into a wad?

I really don't know what more to add. Any questions, please feel free to ask.

Thanks for reading, and good day.

[Blastfrog]

Zed said:

1. Why do you like music while playing?
2. Any of you share my point of view?
3. What do you think of people like me, who basically "ignores" (not really) half of the work put into a wad?

1. It gives me some extra passive entertainment to complement the active entertainment that I'm engaging in.
2. There's probably someone out there.
3. No problem at all, play by whatever method gives you the best experience.

Now, I have a question for you. What do you think of the PSX Doom music? It generally boils down to mere ambiance, even if it does have some melodic qualities to it.

[Memfis]

I think you shouldn't feel bad about playing without music, no matter how much effort people put into making it. Just seems like a flawed logic to me. For example, in your town hundreds of musicians put a lot of effort into playing concerts every day but you don't feel obliged to visit every single one of them I guess. lol maybe a bad analogy.

[Zed]

Sodaholic said:

Now, I have a question for you. What do you think of the PSX Doom music? It generally boils down to mere ambiance, even if it does have some melodic qualities to it.

I absolutely love the PSX music tracks, but they're still "music inside Doom", which is what I don't really like. For example, I like to listen to it while I'm playing chess, for example, but not while playing Doom (or Heretic, HacX, etc.). I mean, from my point of view, there's nothing like walking in the middle of the level in a hallway, in complete silence, and suddenly, you hear a noise. Maybe an imp, maybe a manc, whatever. If I play with music, those sounds tend to mix with the music, and more than a couple of times, it has fucked up my playthrough (I tend to play carefully, especially in big maps, taking my time, and sometimes a drum or a sudden guitar sound or something makes me jump, which in turn makes me rage quit because I was already in the last 5% of the level and I have to restart; I know this happens as well when I fuck up, but at least there I know it was my fault).

Something more: I like music in Foreverhood, for example, because:

It has dialogues, which are "improved" by the music
It is not "like Doom" in a strict sense
Think about this: would you wear headphones while driving? (I assume the answer is "no", for obvious reasons). Then, why listening to music while you are trying to survive in an hostile environment? Wouldn't that make you more vulnerable?

EDIT: @Memfis: Yeah, I'm aware of that, but I still have the feeling that I'm missing half of the wad if I play with no music.

[Tango]

I mean I don't think it's wrong to do but for me the music really often is half the experience. many times the stuff I make is directly inspired by/made specifically for certain music, so at least to me the music is a pretty big part of the game

[SFoZ911]

I think music is important for a map, especially if it was written exclusively for that map. music sets the tone, add atmosphere and even defines the gameplay for that specific map.
A good example will be btsx where you have map19 which have a fast paced dont-stay-in-the-same-spot action based track. and you have map20 which use a slower, more atmospheric adventure-style track.

I can't play doom without its music so no, i can't say i share your point of view.

I dont mind them, they can play as they want to play. if it's help them have a better experience, so be it.

[MFG38]

Zed said:

I like going through a level hearing the demons' breathing, lurking around, and for some reason, I think music just breaks that.

I don't blame you. I mean I can see where you're coming from and I respect that.

Now personally, I agree with SFoZ entirely. If there's music, I'll turn it all the way up, because admittedly the music sets the atmosphere more or less perfectly. And for me, it doesn't only apply to Doom, but other games as well.

[Gez]

Movies have soundtracks too, and you can't selectively turn them off, and yet nobody complains that the actors aren't supposed to listen to their iPods.


Doom is one of these games that I sometimes play just to listen to the music "in situation".

[Darch]

I used to think exactly like Zed. I replaced music by blanks in my first wad, and added lots of ambient sounds. I turned music off even at games like Mortal Kombat or Tekken, to hear bones breaking. Then, one day, I showed my maps to one of my friends who never played Doom and was used to modern games, and he said: "WHO are you trying to scare with THESE monsters?"

Then I realized it was scary when it came out, but now they look like pixelated clay monsters (probably what they are - or whatever material their models are made of), so that's what I went for. Treating Doom as a game (probably what it is - ok, I'll stop that). So you need music if you want your gaming experience to be complete. Music has certainly a big role to provide pace, tone, ambiance, immersion or whatever authors want with it. Now I nitpick every MAP01 replacement with D_RUNNIN on it :P

Playing without music can work when you play Doom slow: looking all around, cleaning every room. When you play it as an arcade game, just running and shooting, music gets really important. That's probably how it was originally designed to be played, by the music they chose, player speed and PAR times.

[plums]

Somewhat related, I didn't like the Quake 2 soundtrack at all when I first heard it so I played without music. So if I ever see youtube videos of people playing it, and there's music, it sounds weird to me. There's enough ambient sounds that it's not quite as empty as Doom, with no music going.

[MFG38]

plums said:

I didn't like the Quake 2 soundtrack at all when I first heard it so I played without music.

One does not simply dislike the Quake 2 soundtrack.

[BaronOfStuff]

plums said:

Somewhat related, I didn't like the Quake 2 soundtrack at all when I first heard it so I played without music. So if I ever see youtube videos of people playing it, and there's music, it sounds weird to me. There's enough ambient sounds that it's not quite as empty as Doom, with no music going.

I've always preferred how the PSX version of Quake II handled music; tracks were pseudo-randomly shuffled (there was some sort of pattern/listing for each section and eventually you could (subconsciously) predict which track would play next) instead of repeating the same one over and over again on a level, as was the case in the PC version. The tracks didn't even loop properly either on the PC which is something that really grates on me.

That being said, I still love the Quake II soundtrack and will have it on in the background when mapping.

Regarding Doom, I went through a phase where I did turn the music off completely (PSX version excepted). I can't remember why but one day I just tried playing without the MIDI choonz in the background and found it quite a likeable experience being able to detect even the faintest growling or gunshot in the distance; I stuck with this for a good few months, maybe even a year. Then when I got a new PC and reinstalled (with all the default sound/music settings), I noticed how much a soundtrack can add to a mapset and affect the enjoyment or how you play (example: take a map and use D_ROMERO from Doom II, then in that same map use D_RUNNIN from Evilution). Haven't turned it off again since.

But hey, if you don't like music during gameplay, that's fine. It's your loss!

[Fuzzball]

Depends what I am playing really in terms of mods or other level wads- atmospheric music can really help set the tone~
Artists like Steve Roach or Brian Eno have some amazing long things that are perfect!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu8NCuOWlKM C:

[marxr]

Zed said:

Why do you like music while playing?

I always play with music in the background, even games that don't have music. It's just awesome to listen to some metal tracks or midis while blasting away demons, music is btw one of the most important things why i like doom. I always put effort in choosing good music for my maps.

[durian]

Zed said:

Any of you share my point of view?

Yup, pretty much.

I find the experience significantly more immersive if I play without music. I'm very keen on music generally, and perhaps that's part of the problem - if I have music on then I'll attend to it in a way that pulls me just a little bit out of the fiction that, through playing the game, I am trying to entertain. I also tend to play in the evening with no light in the room, and with poncy open-backed headphones - I want the game to scare me! And it's less likely to do that if I play with music. I have sometimes played with moderately unpleasant ambient noise playing in the room, but I'm undecided as to whether that enhances or degrades things.

The exception to this, of course, is playing the IWAD maps, but I do all sort of things differently for those.

[Varis Alpha]

i don't think i could stand playing Doom without music. music adds a large part of enjoyment for me when playing PWADs and such, but to each their own.

[Dreadopp]

I'd have to agree that music plays a big role in the game's feel. When the music is also used to set the mood (spooky/scary environment for example), I'm all for it. But I do love Doom's soundtrack too. :)

[40oz]

plums said:

There's enough ambient sounds that it's not quite as empty as Doom, with no music going.

Yeah doom really is empty sounding. Too many monster share the same growling noise, and if I can't find them, it gets on my nerves.

Personally I like the music at a low volume, with exceptions to mark klem and rich nagels work. When I watched demos on my TV at home, my TV tends to do some ducking with the music, meaning the music will soften when sounds are playing, and when there's no sound it will return to normal volume.

[Doominator2]

The music is one of my favorite parts, for example in e1m1 with a track like at dooms gate really makes you want to run fast and shoot down the first thing you see, but on e2m6 with the track sinister it makes you move slowly and cautiously look around corners and makes you feel uneasy. In Plutonia I loved to rehear the old doom tracks in a doom 2 type of environment.

[Soundblock]

A good track can really lift the atmosphere of a map to new heights, its an extra mood gear when it works right. And in the vein of what Plums and 4Ooz already pointed out, Doom stems from an age when atmospheric sounds and audio background ambiance hadn't yet come into full bloom. Games nowadays usually have a really rich audio landscape, though the playability factor has actually waned.

When I fire up a map, I'll always check to hear if the wad has a new soundtrack in it, and give that a chance to entertain. When I start to grow tired of it, I'll turn it down low. If it grates on the ears, I'll turn it off. Its great when the way you play match the mood of the music though, be it up-tempo firefests with a kick, or foot-by-foot sneaky spooky. A map that can wrap itself up before the tune grows old might be a sign of good level design.

edit: tpyo

[plums]

40oz said:

Yeah doom really is empty sounding. Too many monster share the same growling noise, and if I can't find them, it gets on my nerves.

Haha, yeah. Actually I just realized recently that most of the Doom 2 monsters have unique sound effects, or at least more so than the Doom 1 cast.

As for Quake 2 music... eh, it's ok as music. But I was so fascinated by the Quake 1 soundtrack, and kind of tired of the "badass guitar rock while you shoot things" vibe, and so I just felt like it really didn't fit the game.

Anyhow I guess that's my roundabout way of saying that it's find to change the experience to suit your tastes. I know I sometimes edit out custom resources from wads, especially replacement sound effects, if I find them particularly annoying. Depends on the map though, really. Darch's new Preacher project looks like it draws heavily on the music it uses, kind of wouldn't be the same without it. Quite different than someone who just slapped in some Doom midi into their map to give people a break from D_RUNNIN.

[kmxexii]

I listen to music whenever I play PWADs but it's not turned up loud enough that I miss out on the essentials of my gameplay (monster noises, lifts / doors, etc.). I rarely if ever play something else. I do like listening to new music in PWADs but PWAD music is not something I listen to outside of normal gameplay.

[PRIMEVAL]

Why do you like music while playing?
-Doom is usually pretty quiet. Unless it's a specialized source port, there's no ambient sounds to fill that void. That's something Quake had over Doom was the atmosphere. If you didn't play the music, you still had background noise to help out. Though sometimes pure silence can be rather scary (see next question).

Any of you share my point of view?
-I personally don't but I can see where you're coming from. When I was a kid first playing Doom on the SNES, the music made it less scary (it was still scary with it but the silence was a bit more frightening). The music sorta helped bring some calm to my silly little fear. I can see how music sorta takes away from the atmosphere.

What do you think of people like me, who basically "ignores" (not really) half of the work put into a wad?
-The Doom experience is what you make of it. If that's not listening to music while playing, then that's your thing. I could care less x)

[Jimmy]

Zed said:

I still have the feeling that I'm missing half of the wad if I play with no music.

Not to attack your personal taste, but I would say that yes you are. You're missing out on great tracks like those of Mark Klem, David Shaw, and stewboy. Music very often makes the map, for me.

[Zed]

MFG38 said:

One does not simply dislike the Quake 2 soundtrack.

You forgot the Viggo Mortensen meme...

Gez said:

Movies have soundtracks too, and you can't selectively turn them off

You're right, but that doesn't mean I like it (Sometimes I do like it, but not always. And when you (I) don't, what do you do?).

Darch said:

Then, one day, I showed my maps to one of my friends who never played Doom and was used to modern games, and he said: "WHO are you trying to scare with THESE monsters?"

Yes, because if Doom monsters don't scare them, that means they are right.

PRIMEVAL said:

Doom is usually pretty quiet.

That's exactly what I like.

Something else: What about when you play a really large/big level, and the music (which just lasts like 5 minutes, for example) just repeats again, and again, and again?

Soundblock said:

edit: tpyo

Heh.

[Gez]

Zed said:

Something else: What about when you play a really large/big level, and the music (which just lasts like 5 minutes, for example) just repeats again, and again, and again?

Really depends on the music. "Getting Too Tense" gets on my nerves very quickly (quite a fitting title). "The Demon's Dead" I could listen to for hours without tiring of it.

Worst case, I idmus/changemus it.

[hayabusa479]

Personally, I like to listen to my own music when I play Doom. Just makes the game more enjoyable to me. As for official Doom music, I'm half and half. Aubrey Hodges' soundtrack fit the game's theme a lot better than Robert Prince's. Prince's music only had a few memorable songs IMO, but there were songs that have stuck with me for a while. Nobody Told Me About id, DOOM, and Adrian's Asleep are a few of my favorites.

I can't play Doom without music, on the other hand. If I don't have some kind of background music when I play, it makes the game feel empty and boring. Without something there to set the mood, there's no feeling or emotion. It just feels awkward, especially when you're lost in a level and trying to figure out where to go. No music gets kinda monotonous after a while. Music adds life to the game, and helps keep me entertained with it.

[PRIMEVAL]

Zed said:

That's exactly what I like.

Something else: What about when you play a really large/big level, and the music (which just lasts like 5 minutes, for example) just repeats again, and again, and again?

To each their own. I don't like pure silence, personally.

And if it gets on my nerves, I just idmus to something else x)

[Devalaous]

As the guy in charge of the Revilution soundtrack, yeah, music is VERY important to me.

Doom is ancient. Unlike modern games, without the music there is nothing. No footsteps, no humming of a light, no wind, insects, nothing. Its dead and sterile. I would rather turn it off and be bored than play like that.

A lot of the time I remember maps solely by their music; the thought of the music will bring up vivid memories of the level and its flow, especially the large scale battles that often go so well with a level's track.

[ducon]

FuzzballFox said:

Depends what I am playing really in terms of mods or other level wads- atmospheric music can really help set the tone~
Artists like Steve Roach or Brian Eno have some amazing long things that are perfect!

I remember playing Quake with Neroli.
Try dark ambient music too, it will change the experience.