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Armaetus

Capcom puts 30 FPS cap on Dead Rising 3 PC port

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WildWeasel said:

It might not be that the PC version is necessarily being "crippled"; it could be that the devs of the xbone version of the game took the lazy way out and tied too much stuff to the 30 FPS limit, making it difficult to separate it without affecting the gameplay.

I wouldn't exactly call it lazy. There's a lot of valid reasons to lock a game's maximum frame rate, trying to accommodate an uncapped frame rate -- unless it's a serious design choice from the word go -- is going to be more trouble than it's worth. Most games have their logic capped at 30 frames per second, and then use interpolation to make it look like the game is actually running at 60.

With this in mind, I should point out that input handling doesn't necessarily have to run at the same resolution that game's internal logic is running at. Conceivably, you could have the game logic running at 30 fps, with the input handling being checked at 60 (effectively, every half logical tick.) Thing is, you may or may get a desired result based on the rendering frame rate, which could either be interpolated, the same at the logical frame rate, or something completely different altogether. Messy, eh?

I should also point out that film quality is 24 frames per second, and is still treated as a universal standard in classical animation. I won't go as far to speak about more modern cartooning techniques, but any artist that can't actively work at 24 fps needs to go back to art school.

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I recall a blog which tried to make sense of all this framerate nonsense, and the final consensus was that "if you want to make everybody happy, at least for a while, have at least 800 fps". The rationale was that the human eye can detect changes that rapid, under certain conditions (e.g. being in a dark room and suddenly lighting a white sheet for 1/800th of a second).

As for "60 fps" video....are we talking about 60i or 60p? *grin*

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I like how this thread devolved from Capcom being retarded to some kind of shitflinging over FPS. There shouldn't even be a debate over this, you're just objectively wrong if you think there's no difference between 30 and 60 or 60 and 120. The whole point should be that the underpowered hardware of "Next-Gen" consoles shouldn't determine PC's version of the game, ESPECIALLY since better parts are getting more affordable all the time.

But then again Capcom is retarded and won't give the fans what they want whatsoever. It's a miracle that they haven't completely keeled over yet because I don't see how ANYONE would buy any of their games at this point. Dead Rising 3 is a shit game.

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This IS a pretty retarded thing to do, but..

Personaly, I always LOVE a 30fps cap. 60fps feels like "jelly" and gives me motion sickness.. I wish all games had an optional cap.

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I'm absolutely amazed that this bullshit is coming from a Doom forum:

BaronOfStuff said:

Why do people cry such salty tears over a fucking framerate anyway?

StevieCybernetik said:

Im not an expert on these things, hence why I'm asking this question...but why does it matter? Isn't it true that after a certain point your eyes can't tell the difference in frames...or??

dew said:

Can you explain this bit of wisdom you just shat out?

Doomkid said:

This IS a pretty retarded thing to do, but..

Personaly, I always LOVE a 30fps cap. 60fps feels like "jelly" and gives me motion sickness.. I wish all games had an optional cap.


And here's why: Doom is, classically, stuck on a 35fps cycle. Go and download prBoom+ and go to Options -> General -> Uncapped framerate and turn it off. Try playing for a while, turn it back on and play a bit more.

Notice the fucking difference?

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I wish all games had an optional cap.


I haven't tried it personally (because seriously... why?!?! ;) ), but I think you could do that with MSI Afterburner, which is free. You click on the MSI On-Screen display server in the taskbar, there's a list of installed application, and then clicking on the wrench icon lets you specify a framerate limit.

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Phml said:

I haven't tried it personally (because seriously... why?!?! ;) )

Probably because, if his avatar is anything to go by, he's too busy getting high and actually enjoying good gameplay would make his stoned-as-shit head hurt.

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Jodwin said:

I'm absolutely amazed that this bullshit is coming from a Doom forum:

...

And here's why: Doom is, classically, stuck on a 35fps cycle. Go and download prBoom+ and go to Options -> General -> Uncapped framerate and turn it off. Try playing for a while, turn it back on and play a bit more.

Notice the fucking difference?


Yes, I've been using uncapped fps on ZDoom-based ports since whenever, but I don't cry my fucking eyes out when there is a framecap on something. It's really not a big deal, just a load of whining.

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BaronOfStuff said:

Yes, I've been using uncapped fps on ZDoom-based ports since whenever, but I don't cry my fucking eyes out when there is a framecap on something. It's really not a big deal, just a load of whining.

I guess you only play E1M1 and on ITYTD, then. Frame rate is a huge deal in any game where twitch skill is critical, like HR-style Doom levels, racing games, fighting games, bullet hells and micro-intensive RTS games. Try and ask good fighting game players or at least masters' league StarCraft 2 players to play on 30fps and they would laugh their asses off. There's a very good reason why virtually all fighting games run at 60fps.

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Jodwin said:

I guess you only play E1M1 and on ITYTD, then.

I guess you're full of shit if you're already resorting to this sort of reply.

I really don't get what the big deal is about. Yeah, I see a difference, but it doesn't affect my enjoyment one iota whether I'm playing at 30fps, 35fps, or 60fps. If 'pro players' (lol) can get so fussy over something like this, then it's just all a bit sad, really.

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Jodwin said:

And here's why: Doom is, classically, stuck on a 35fps cycle. Go and download prBoom+ and go to Options -> General -> Uncapped framerate and turn it off. Try playing for a while, turn it back on and play a bit more.

Notice the fucking difference?

Lol some Finnish nub trying to call me out or wat? Meet me in a duel server, scrub.

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Jodwin said:

I guess you only play E1M1 and on ITYTD, then. Frame rate is a huge deal in any game where twitch skill is critical, like HR-style Doom levels...


Buahahahaha.

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Thirty-five is a pretty weird number to set a framerate at. But you have to admit, it's five frames better than whatever Capcom's putting out.

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Jodwin said:

Frame rate is a huge deal in any game where twitch skill is critical, like HR-style Doom levels

Gonna cut the sentence right there, not saying you're wrong when you mention other genres, but don't bring Doom into this. It was designed to run at 35 fps and works perfectly fine that way in all scenarios, HR Max or E1 ITYTD.

I actually can't stand playing Doom uncapped, so whenever I had to use ZDoom the first thing I did after unpacking was ` cl_capfps 1.

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Uncapped framerate is "fake" in many ports anyway, isn't it? Like in prboom+ there are still technically only 35 tics happening in a second but it looks like there are more because of interpolation. So I'm not sure how that would make your twitch skill more efficient. Maybe only in the sense that the game looks more pleasant to you and that makes you play better.

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BaronOfStuff said:

I guess you're full of shit if you're already resorting to this sort of reply.

I really don't get what the big deal is about. Yeah, I see a difference, but it doesn't affect my enjoyment one iota whether I'm playing at 30fps, 35fps, or 60fps. If 'pro players' (lol) can get so fussy over something like this, then it's just all a bit sad, really.

If you're fine with limiting yourself to inferior gameplay experience then you're welcome, but don't expect other people to agree. Not to mention that your personal opinion has got nothing to do with cold hard facts: In some FPS games (Counter-Strike being the most famous) high fps is highly advantageous, especially so in sniper duels because getting to see your opponent faster lets your mouse hand react faster helping you to fire first. Same can be easily applied to SSG duels in Doom, as well.

In racing games higher frame rate helps you perceive your momentum better, which in turn helps you control your car better (interestingly enough, this also slightly applies to Doom due to how doomguy's momentum works). Fighting games involve combos and counter systems which can rely on frame-perfect button timings. Similar to FPS games having more fluid visible movement also helps you react faster. You're probably starting to get the idea, but the same principles go for games like SC2 as well: Precision-based abilities like feedbacks, EMPs and abducts benefit greatly from better responsiveness.


Oh, and aren't you cool and special for trying to dismiss competitive gaming, again, on a Doom forum. ;)



@Belial: That depends, though. Personally I wouldn't want to try playing the more modern HR-style wads like Sunder (which I'm using as an extreme example) without uncapped frame rate. That's not to say that you couldn't play it since, after all, the engine is still running 35 fps in both scenarios, but it would be definitely harder with capped frames. Also, at least I personally find running in Doom with capped frame rate unsettling because the movement tends to be slightly jittery due to how much doomguy moves between each drawn frame.

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Jodwin said:

In some FPS games (Counter-Strike being the most famous) high fps is highly advantageous, especially so in sniper duels because getting to see your opponent faster lets your mouse hand react faster helping you to fire first. Same can be easily applied to SSG duels in Doom, as well.


Outgunning your opponent thanks to a few milliseconds of advantage that a faster frame rate might give you sounds like a borderline case, at least when much more important factors are at play.

Frame rate becomes moot when you factor in network latency (of the order of 10s or even 100s of ms) and even the latency of the monitor itself (some monitors may add up to 70 ms of latency before actually displaying a frame).

1/60th of a second is about 16.67 ms...so you can lose several frames worth of visualization due to factors which have nothing do with frame rate itself, and which have proven much more critical to competitive gaming over time.

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My ten year old or so computer monitor runs at 75 hz. Early this year my wife bought me a new monitor which had a 60 hz refresh rate. I tried it out and holy fuck did I suddenly suck at Doom. It's sitting as my second monitor for IRC and stuff that doesn't require quick response time because apparently 15 hz is a big fucking deal for me.

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kmxexii said:

apparently 15 hz is a big fucking deal for me.


If it's such a big fucking deal in a game whose engine doesn't even run at 60 let alone 75 fps, then maybe the problem is to be sought in some other factor? Like e.g. the new monitor has a different size/position/view angle? Those are much more likely factors. Even the fact that your wife forced you to change monitor might have a much greater impact on your playing ;-)

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Maes said:

If it's such a big fucking deal in a game whose engine doesn't even run at 60 let alone 75 fps, then maybe the problem is to be sought in some other factor? Like e.g. the new monitor has a different size/position/view angle? Those are much more likely factors. Even the fact that your wife forced you to change monitor might have a much greater impact on your playing ;-)


I don't play vanilla Doom?

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kmxexii said:

I don't play vanilla Doom?


Game mode is more important. Are we talking solo or network play?

With network play, especially over the internet, where unless you're on the same sub-network as your opponent you may be dealing with opponents that have a 100+ ms advantage on you. It'd be pointless to blame poor performance on a few ms lost to frame rate differences.

On the other hand, play performance affected due to excessive monitor display lag is a very real and documented phenomenon. If you switch from a CRT (no input lag) to a run-of-the-mill LCD, the difference can really be there, but NOT due to the refresh rate.

Why do you think they sell "gaming" LCD monitors?

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I haven't tried it personally (because seriously... why?!?! ;) ), but I think you could do that with MSI Afterburner, which is free. You click on the MSI On-Screen display server in the taskbar, there's a list of installed application, and then clicking on the wrench icon lets you specify a framerate limit.


This actually got me thinking. While I like 60 FPS, I see no point in running old games at ~500 FPS and hearing louder fan noises as a result. Capping at 61 FPS works well with MSI Afterburner, but you have to do it for each application. If you have a NVidia card, you can download NVidia Inspector and set a global framerate limit in "Drivers (Profile) Settings" (icon to the right of Driver Version in the main window). I've set it to 65 and so far can't spot any ill effect. You don't have to keep the program running after you've set your new driver settings, too, which is another plus.

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