NOVA II: New Dawn - First status report in November | Still open for mappers!

[7hm]

Mouldy: thanks for the feedback. You need to bump the RL to get it. I'll just drop it instead. The exit room is accessible (hit the switch behind the mancubus), it lowers the bars in the the nukage and you teleport from there. The yellow key needs to be tagged secret. The intent is to get it from the AV spot if you use the alternate method to kill it. Not sure if I put it close enough for an sr50 though.

I wanted you to not have enough ammo to corridor snipe the mancubi, but I should probably come up with a better way to handle that.

[mouldy]

7hm said:

The yellow key needs to be tagged secret. The intent is to get it from the AV spot if you use the alternate method to kill it. Not sure if I put it close enough for an sr50 though.

Interesting, i might have figured the yellow key was optional if i got in the exit room, but the door to get in doesn't work. I did wonder if you could jump onto that island from the archvile alcove, I'd maybe consider making it jumpable by normal running, strafe running might not be so universally known to players.

[7hm]

Oops. Another thing to fix then. I must have been clipping through it.

Also I think you're right about that first hallway. The reason the berserk area lifts is to allow access across to the other side (to shoot the trigger). I originally had the entire thing set up differently though, and I think I'll go back to that setup, where the berserk activates the demon trap, and just make it neccesary for map progression.

[NuMetalManiak]

sorry that this feedback is kinda late:

jmickle's map:

hmm...no other player starts? I guess it's okay for now, we'll probably get to multiplayer stuff later.

first off, looking at the map, you have some generalized actions, which won't work for limit-removing ports i believe. plus there's some odd sky transfers around, like this one:



so far there's no difficulty settings either, but again, hopefully it can be sorted out soon. design-wise, you use a lot of non-stock textures almost throughout the whole thing, giving a nice, cavernous, Plutonia feel. but there are some textures that are quite misaligned. that one area with the checkerboard floor and ceiling and vine walls doesn't look right to me but that's probably my issue with it. also, the beginning cavern area's ceiling is entirely flat and could probably use more to it.

gameplay-wise, it's linear. this is not necessarily a bad thing, but it's alright at best here. i'll echo dobu on the checkerboard area as well as the monster bumrush close to the end. less pinkies for the checkerboard trap. and for the bumrush, i'd probably add a few columns to that area, which gives some chance in avoiding archies, rather than running back to the corridor. other than that, quite enjoyable actually.

some more suggestions:

either sector 18 or sector 19 could be marked as a secret as well. plus the backside of linedef 358 is missing a texture. the rocket boxes in the SE don't need to be stacked. i'm not so sure about FLAT5_1 on both the ceiling and floor over there considering the rocky terrain. and also, i'd add some monster variety to that section, as well as some monsters to the CRACKLE skied bridge (most preferrably in the form of a teleporter ambush from both sides). of course don't forget to let players out of the lava if they fall in. also what's with sectors 110 and 111?

[Skavenger216]

7hm said:

I don't mean to be a dick, but google "doom limit removing". The first result accurately describes how limit removing refers to using vanilla features but removing some of the hard limits inherent to the doom exes. The term itself is also perfectly descriptive.

I did EXACTLY that when i was first trying to learn what it was, and everything i read led me to believe it meant removing the vanilla limits and not using zdoom functions. I figured that meant just not to use zdoom specific stuff in my map, so i didnt. Maybe I interpreted it wrong, im good at doing that, but thats how it looked to me. At any rate, at least i know what limit removing actually entails now, i just wish i had noticed that stuff had to be in doom format and not UDMF before my map was pretty much done. And, BTW, the term itself is NOT perfectly descriptive, as i said before, for something called "limit removing", there are a lot of limits and restrictions.

plums said:

Now, in light of the limit-removing confusion, if anyone who has completed a Boom/ZDoom map for NOVA 2 wants help converting it, that's a job I don't mind taking.

I may take you up on that, after i get some feedback on my map and find out and if its even worth converting, lol. Im in love with it, but it is my creation after all so i am a little biased, and i dont want to spend the time converting it (or ask someone else to spend the time doing it) if its not even good enough for this megawad, lol. With that said, if anyone besides Kildeth has given my map a try please let me know what you thought. The DL link was a page or 2 back.

[NuMetalManiak]

7hm's map:

interesting, only one monster flagged deaf. and yikes, this map feels like a vintage '94 map. not that that is a too terrible thing though. first of all, that red door behind my start is not marked. i agree with mouldy about the berserk pack rising up after crossing one of three linedefs, very, very odd. in that room, there's two shootable switches which open a room with a backpack that hasn't really been worked on at all. the teleporting lines surrounding sector 112 should be flipped outwards. i also couldn't get the rocket launcher by any means. one particular chaingunner has a very odd angle of view at 283°. gameplay is very similar to silverdeth's map, pretty short, but with me standing in a doorway and shooting more than just runnin' and gunnin', it's not really that interesting on the whole. looks like the exit doorway is untagged and prevents me from leaving the level, also the exit room (and the YK switch) isn't marked. a lot of odd design choices and misaligned textures. a lot of CEIL1_1 for the ceilings too. hopefully this'll be polished and finishable in the near future.

edit: Skavenger's map: Unnatural Selection

well so far we have another map that implements difficulty settings and coop. the first secret with the plasma gun has a teleporter which is misaligned outside UDMF format, hope this gets fixed. that climbing section is pretty nice but design-wise feels a bit joe-ilya-like. teleporter maze was confusing but also nice, although i can see the teleporters being misaligned outside UDMF format again. past that, the seizure-inducing corridors are quite nasty and probably the lowest point of the map. exit area is quite nice but probably could benefit from a few more monsters. a number of CEIL1_1 in odd places again like 7hm's map. overall though, feels pretty nice as a hell/underground map, hopefully it can get converted properly. but it seems to be the coolest map so far out of all of the submissions.

[mouldy]

Skavenger216 said:

Just finished putting it all together, heres my map. It is in UDMF format, so it will need a compatible port. Im posting it mostly so I can get some feedback generated while I work on converting it to Doom format (or is boom format ok to use now?). There a few other things I should say also.



DOWNLOAD LINK : https://www.sendspace.com/file/1juk64

Just had a play of this map. Its ok, though it it has some problems. The starting room looks cool with the weird stepped design, but then a lot of the rest of the map looks quite plain and under detailed by comparison. The outdoor section has some very ugly geometry going on with sharp unnatural looking edges and the horizon was filled with HOMs for me. There are things you could do to improve the outdoor area, using some more sector detail to make it look more like a rocky organic environment. For example the rocky walls could use some variations in height to look more realistic. Adding some decorations throughout the map would make a difference too.

The fights are a little bit meat-wall in places, but the cavern teleport area is a bit more interesting, with distant fire coming from various directions. The teleporting navigation is a bit goofy for my taste, but it makes a change from just following a set path. The flashing maze is migraine inducing, I would definitely change that as it is physically unpleasant to play, and without the lighting gimmick its a fairly old school square maze. You could do something more visually interesting like some kind of sewer system or catacombs.

The exit room looks quite cool, seems like you put more effort into the lighting in that room which makes it stand out from the rest of the map. Again it feels large and barren of detail, the shape is interesting but it doesn't feel very lived in. Try to imagine what the monsters are doing in the rooms you make, and add some details and decorations to give it the illusion of being a functional place rather than a series of geometric shapes. I liked the double archvile fight at the end, though I guess you could just ignore them and exit if you were quick. If you wanted you could make it so that you need to press all 4 sides of the exit switch to open the exit doors, to force the player to deal with the archviles. There are ways to do that with vanilla limits.

This map looks like an ok starting point to begin working more on it. It doesn't look like it would involve much work adapting it to doom2 format in terms of linedef actions, but I think it could use a lot more work anyway to get it looking nice and playing better.

I'd stress that while a lot of the criticisms on these early maps might seem harsh, remember that these projects can take many months, and even maps themselves can take weeks to chisel into shape, so its still very early days. One of the best ways to improve your mapping is to look at maps other people have made that you like, and think about what it is about them that looks cool and makes them fun to play.

[jmickle66666666]

cheers for the feedback getsu fune. to answer a lot of those points (no other player starts, sectors 110/111 etc) this map is far from complete. a lot of the stuff has been fixed already even, just not done enough to warrant posting a new build.

I'll take a look at making the starting cavern better

[joe-ilya]

Where will my map fit? Is nature gonna be EP2? Or a secret map?

[an_mutt]

So, I feel the need to ask, seeing as I've never tried it before and have spent the last 30 futile minutes trying to do so:

How do I patch a sky to a pwad file without the alldmtx5 texture file shitting itself and making it so I can't open my wad up to play? I've patched skies to a wad before with no issue, but trying to do so this time around is causing me all kinds of problems and I'd actually like to get started on my map once everything's set up. Anybody know what I should do? Or, better yet, can someone patch it for me in Slade so I can look at how it should be done? The sky I want in question is the one I quoted in the last page, and I want to apply it to an otherwise empty pwad.

[plums]

Quick-fix:
* add PP_START and PP_END markers in your wad (or a new resource wad)
* from alldmtx5.wad, copy BSKY2A into your wad between the markers, and rename it to SKY1A (assuming you want an episode 1 sky)
* copy BSKY2B into your wad 3 times, as SKY1B, SKY1C & SKY1D

Make sure the wad with the sky gets loaded AFTER alldmtx5.wad. For this reason it might be easier to make a new resource wad rather than bundling it in your map wad, because you can put it at the end of the resources list in Doom Builder.

The reason that the normal way for adding a sky doesn't work is because you get conflicting TEXTURE1/PNAMES lumps, as I detailed a few pages ago.

Anyhow later tonight or tomorrow I'm going to upload a slightly altered texture wad along with instructions on how to combine it with your own custom textures.

edit: You should get something like this:
https://www.mediafire.com/?h7033ep0f5u8cam

The names SKY1A SKY1B SKY1C and SKY1D (also SKY2A, etc.) are specific to the alldmtx texture pack, so the process will be a little different when not using that pack.

[killbotvii]

So I've sketched out the absolute rough draft of my map on a piece of paper and then made the basic shape of it in doombuilder 2. I'm really not good at this so far...
I wish there were more than barebones tutorials for doombuilder 2 on the internet, because i'm just barely straggling along as it is.

[Andrea Rovenski]

I can help you out if you need anything in particular, killbotvii.

[plums]

killbotvii said:

So I've sketched out the absolute rough draft of my map on a piece of paper and then made the basic shape of it in doombuilder 2. I'm really not good at this so far...
I wish there were more than barebones tutorials for doombuilder 2 on the internet, because i'm just barely straggling along as it is.

I think perhaps the best advice for brand new mappers is "try your best and don't worry about getting it perfect the first time." Got mapping errors? Made something ugly and unfun? No problem, those things can be fixed in time.

And yes, if there is something specific you want to know, and can't find an answer to anywhere, asking here is perfectly fine.

[an_mutt]

plums said:

edit: You should get something like this:
https://www.mediafire.com/?h7033ep0f5u8cam

Much appreciated, that seems to have done the trick. I swear, every time I feel like I've progressed with pwad editing something really basic stumps me for about an hour longer than it should do - especially when the solution is as basic as it turns out to be.

[Ashstrodamus]

plums said:

I think perhaps the best advice for brand new mappers is "try your best and don't worry about getting it perfect the first time." Got mapping errors? Made something ugly and unfun? No problem, those things can be fixed in time.

And yes, if there is something specific you want to know, and can't find an answer to anywhere, asking here is perfectly fine.

Good advice. I struggled for the first few days, but I pick up something new each day and my mapping errors are practically at zero now. My first few rooms don't have recessed doors. They're flush with the wall but that can be fixed later.

[plums]

an_mutt said:

Much appreciated, that seems to have done the trick. I swear, every time I feel like I've progressed with pwad editing something really basic stumps me for about an hour longer than it should do - especially when the solution is as basic as it turns out to be.

Don't feel bad, lots of learning about Doom editing is done one mistake at a time.

[Ashstrodamus]

For some reason, I have no torches in my texture pack.

[killbotvii]

Cyberdemon531 said:

I can help you out if you need anything in particular, killbotvii.

I'd really appreciate that.

I also had an interesting idea. Maybe we could get together into small skype groups, with the more experienced leading each group, and work together on each others maps. It would certainly speed things up so that this project doesn't take another two years! XD

EDIT: My skype username is themaster626. Look for someone named "The Master(killbotvii)".

[Andrea Rovenski]

I'd be down for that, my skype ID is Cyberdemon531, if anyone wants to add me.

[mouldy]

plums said:

Don't feel bad, lots of learning about Doom editing is done one mistake at a time.

Or even one map at a time. I'd recommend people using their first map to learn the ropes of doombuilder - you won't be making a masterpiece first time, so may as well use it to practice making stuff you'll want to use in future maps, like monster closets and teleport traps, lifts and stairs and how much space the player needs to move around comfortably.

[Ashstrodamus]

It seems that setting up the map for a UV-max pistol start is the way to go, and unchecking the enemies for lesser difficulties is the way to go. Does that sound about right? Also, I still don't have any torches in my texture pack. Could we get the most updated texture pack edited into post 1 in the thread? I missed some floor textures under the doors, but they're almost so unnoticeable, I'm thinking a fix isn't really needed. I'm still yet to do any enemy teleporters or keys in my map, but I think the gameplay is pretty good so far.

[plums]

Ashstrodamus said:

It seems that setting up the map for a UV-max pistol start is the way to go, and unchecking the enemies for lesser difficulties is the way to go. Does that sound about right?

Yeah, that's probably the best way to do it. There might be a bunch of difficulty tweaking once you get an idea of where the level will fit within the megawad, but that of course can wait.

Also, I still don't have any torches in my texture pack. Could we get the most updated texture pack edited into post 1 in the thread?

Not sure I follow, do you normally have torches on wall textures? Usually they're just decorative things (Obstacles/Light Sources in the DB menu).

If there's a specific texture you want in the pack, post it and I'll put it in the next revision tomorrow...

[Ashstrodamus]

plums said:

Yeah, that's probably the best way to do it. There might be a bunch of difficulty tweaking once you get an idea of where the level will fit within the megawad, but that of course can wait.


Not sure I follow, do you normally have torches on wall textures? Usually they're just decorative things (Obstacles/Light Sources in the DB menu).

If there's a specific texture you want in the pack, post it and I'll put it in the next revision tomorrow...

I'm talking about the red, green, and blue torches. There aren't any in my texture pack, Doom2.wad, or anything, they're just not there. I would say my map fits in around map 20'ish. The UV difficulty is no joke. I can actually get around the torches though. They're not a necessity. I think I've finally got the balance just right.

[plums]

Ashstrodamus said:

I'm talking about the red, green, and blue torches.

Yeah, those aren't textures, they're things. Under the "Light Sources" category, you've got stuff like "Short green firestick", "Tall blue firestick", etc.

[Ashstrodamus]

plums said:

Yeah, those aren't textures, they're things. Under the "Light Sources" category, you've got stuff like "Short green firestick", "Tall blue firestick", etc.

Alright, thanks plums. We're getting somewhere now.

[Ashstrodamus]

I think we've got a huge shot at making the best newbie megawad of all time. I feel pretty solid at what I've got so far, but I think I'm only about 1/4 done. Still a lot of work to do. You guys are awesome and true gentleman. Thanks for all the help.

[Skavenger216]

Thanks for the feedback, Mouldy and Getsu. Gonna rework a couple things and ill post a revision, gonna be at least a few days though, as i have a rather hectic work schedule the next couple days.

[kildeth]

I'll hopefully be able to do a more detailed test of the first few maps soon as my sprained hand gets better.

This is all we got so far isn't it? Just trying to keep track.

Unnatural Selection (Skavenger216)
Base Hell (Silverdeth & Getsu Fune)
jmickle's map
7hm's map
superluigieth1's map

[Ashstrodamus]

kildeth said:

I'll hopefully be able to do a more detailed test of the first few maps soon as my sprained hand gets better.

This is all we got so far isn't it? Just trying to keep track.

Unnatural Selection (Skavenger216)
Base Hell (Silverdeth & Getsu Fune)
jmickle's map
7hm's map
superluigieth1's map

I'd like you to try what I have so far, but I'm totally ignorant on uploading and such. I'm gonna need help on looping my midi's too. I can do some google research and probably figure it out myself, but a push in the right direction never hurt anyone.