NOVA II: New Dawn - First status report in November | Still open for mappers!

[dobu gabu maru]

blueinferno776 said:

There is a lot of areas that need to be decorated, how do I get more speed? Would it be better to just build create gameplay then texture decorate the map? This is were I always trip up.

First and foremost what will be analyzed is gameplay almost every time. It's imperative to remember that if the map isn't balanced well or plays poorly, it's usually going to get a negative response no matter how pretty it might look. Personally I decorate & tune gameplay together, room by room, but it's generally advisable to have a good gameplay "flow" going throughout the level, then concern yourself with artistic indulgences later.

For instance, in the screens you've shown for Binary Vault, it seems like you have a clear idea of how the map is supposed to look, and you're working on having rooms make sense rather than be abstract (like the use of chairs in that large room). But each area is very "boxy" and those are almost never fun to play in, as they promote door camping if there's hitscanners inside, or monotonous circle strafing if they're filled with imps/demons/HKs. That's not saying a big boxy room can't be entertaining, but I'm not exactly sure what enemy placement could be put in there to provide a thrilling experience. This may change once I see the playtesting-ready product though, but it's just a concern I'm noting.

[blueinferno776]

dobu gabu maru said:

First and foremost what will be analyzed is gameplay almost every time. It's imperative to remember that if the map isn't balanced well or plays poorly, it's usually going to get a negative response no matter how pretty it might look.

Could not be more true. I so far have no gameplay put in to the map yet with exception for what I did at the maps start. I think now is the time to focus on how this is going to be played.

I just wanted to post updates since november is now here. I appreciate your feed back a lot! I find it very useful. :)

[Guest Unregistered account]

Hey guys, sorry I've been so quit for such a long time. I was really kinda put off by the loss of all my WADs, but... THEN! I found a copy of my old WADs folder... in my ZDaemon
folder!(?)
I'll check if Shrine of Shadows is there... if so, I'll sure as hell re-pick it up! >:)

[mrthejoshmon]

I'm thinking about either:

A, scrapping the current map:

The map is nothing short of crap at this time and I have not a clue on how or where to include any monsters.

B, Using the current map as an intro (opening area) to another styled map:

Having a cave, building or teleport lead to the actually better map would be a cheap and easy way of using the piece of shit I have now.

C, Try and progress:

I got so far, I could keep at it?

D, Leave NOVA 2:

Because so far I am beginning to notice a huge quality gap between anything I make and everybody else makes for community projects (My maps for my own project are getting absolutely wrecked by the submissions I am getting). I'm probably too 90's or some shit and should probably pull out of this before I make the stinker everybody hates.

-

Oh and here is a download so you can see my point:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/7bihf8sbfnbq3qg/MTJMNOVA.wad

[cannonball]

I think a little more could be done on light levels, but otherwise it's a lovely canyon like map. You should keep at it Josh.

[tourniquet]

Yeah some decent lighting should work wonders, especially for the caverns.
Another thing that came to my mind is incorporating some sort of building into the large central canyon.
I don't see any reason to srap this map, just get out of your depression and carry on.

[dobu gabu maru]

mrthejoshmon said:

I'm thinking about either...

??? Map seems fine to me. Having such a big area can be difficult to implement baddies in properly, but I really like the flow and visuals so far—it's interesting how far you've come from the maps you first showed off. I would like to see it expanded on a little more, especially since it looks like you're going with an indoorsy section past the tele. Try not to get discouraged by the works of others; plenty of people play your maps and enjoy them. I don't think anyone here is submitting stuff that's "too 90's", and if they are I think we'd call them out on it.

[kildeth]

Report your progress whenever everyone as it is November now. I'm still finishing up with uni stuff and will compile everything when I get time. I've downloaded every map that has been submitted and got it in a folder so it's all organised for when I do get around to putting the first alpha together.

[Argent Agent]

Still open for mappers I see. Mind if I take a shot at making a map? (Experienced Mapper)

[kildeth]

Added you to the list. By the way does anyone know where plums has gone? He has the latest update to the first Nova megawad and I need it for the idgames reupload.

[joe-ilya]

Can I retexture and probably enlarge 7luigi's map?

EDIT : We have 19 maps so far. 12 more are needed and someone should work on MAP29 and MAP30, I can come up with an idea for MAP30. MAP29 should be a large collaboration as I feel that MAP30 should be a straight boss battle or 2.
MAP32 can be an underlava map.

[kildeth]

joe-ilya said:

Can I retexture and probably enlarge 7luigi's map?

EDIT : We have 19 maps so far. 12 more are needed and someone should work on MAP29 and MAP30, I can come up with an idea for MAP30. MAP29 should be a large collaboration as I feel that MAP30 should be a straight boss battle or 2.
MAP32 can be an underlava map.

Enlarging superluigieth's map and retexturing it probably wouldn't be a bad idea so go for it I say.

I had an idea for a MAP30 too, named 'A Deal With the Devil Gods' where you not only fight the forces of hell and Satan but God and heaven as well. The south of the map would be the hellish Satan part, and it would be labelled 'A Deal With the Devil God'. The heaven part in the north of the map would be labelled the same, except adding a comma to change meaning, thus 'A Deal With the Devil, God'. Both parts of the map could have their own Icon of Sin type thing representing God and Satan. Putting hell in the south and heaven in the north would also represent the notion of 'As Above, So Below' and since both sides would ultimately be the enemy, this could be the plot twist of the wad - the heaven above is as bad as the hell below. After both heaven and hell are defeated, maybe have some big exit thing in the east side of the map representing nature and personal discovery/spirituality away from the gods, possibly with a final set of battles representing personal demons and evil on Earth and the physical realm. The wad could end with the player exiting out to a place with sea and a huge colourful sunrise (sky transfer?), representing the 'New Dawn' which would reference the title of the wad.

I also like the name 'As Below, So Above' for this MAP30 idea, with maybe 'A Deal With the Devil Gods' being the alternate title used on the automap like with Circle of Death/'O' of Destruction in Doom II. It would be a collaboration of course since the map would have to be quite large to incorporate everything.

[dobu gabu maru]

Mmmm I think it's interesting but I don't know how well that stuff is going to transfer over to Doom. I mean, not much has linked the maps together outside of the five intermission text blurbs, and I think that may be too high-concept unless we start digging into some custom textures to use. I like the idea of pitting dualities against the player but I'm just concerned we don't have any clever ways to show the "heaven" side off.

[obake]

kildeth said:

Enlarging superluigieth's map and retexturing it probably wouldn't be a bad idea so go for it I say.

I had an idea for a MAP30 too, named 'A Deal With the Devil Gods' where you not only fight the forces of hell and Satan but God and heaven as well. The south of the map would be the hellish Satan part, and it would be labelled 'A Deal With the Devil God'. The heaven part in the north of the map would be labelled the same, except adding a comma to change meaning, thus 'A Deal With the Devil, God'. Both parts of the map could have their own Icon of Sin type thing representing God and Satan. Putting hell in the south and heaven in the north would also represent the notion of 'As Above, So Below' and since both sides would ultimately be the enemy, this could be the plot twist of the wad - the heaven above is as bad as the hell below. After both heaven and hell are defeated, maybe have some big exit thing in the east side of the map representing nature and personal discovery/spirituality away from the gods, possibly with a final set of battles representing personal demons and evil on Earth and the physical realm. The wad could end with the player exiting out to a place with sea and a huge colourful sunrise (sky transfer?), representing the 'New Dawn' which would reference the title of the wad.

I also like the name 'As Below, So Above' for this MAP30 idea, with maybe 'A Deal With the Devil Gods' being the alternate title used on the automap like with Circle of Death/'O' of Destruction in Doom II. It would be a collaboration of course since the map would have to be quite large to incorporate everything.

Hmmm...

I don't feel comfortable having God portrayed as a bad guy. The idea of the player visiting both Heaven and Hell is good, though, and there a lot of intriguing possibilities going with it, such as fighting fallen angels, good souls who have signed their souls away to Satan, etc. But nothing that says that God and ALL of Heaven are an antagonists!

Not only would something like that be morally uncomfortable, it would also be confusing. So in this universe, where God and the Devil exists, the right choice for the player after all is to abandon religion? I don't get it.

[kildeth]

obake said:

Hmmm...

I don't feel comfortable having God portrayed as a bad guy. The idea of the player visiting both Heaven and Hell is good, though, and there a lot of intriguing possibilities going with it, such as fighting fallen angels, good souls who have signed their souls away to Satan, etc. But nothing that says that God and ALL of Heaven are an antagonists!

Not only would something like that be morally uncomfortable, it would also be confusing. So in this universe, where God and the Devil exists, the right choice for the player after all is to abandon religion? I don't get it.

I thought it might make a few people uncomfortable but it was worth the suggestion as some people thought Doom itself was too controversial with its hell theme when it was released. :P

We could make it a false representation of God being the villain if it's going to lose people and that would make more sense. As for the theme, I was thinking of something medieval and churchy for heaven, rahter than fluffy clouds and beacons which might be harder to implement.

Oh, and my plan wasn't necessarily going to promote the abandonment of religion as a moral cause, as the third path you go on was going to be full of demons also and it was supposed to represent a godless existence. My idea was that the moral would be more about how there can be evil disguised in any path and it is up to the individual to see past that and overcome it.

[NuMetalManiak]

I know I've posted several pictures of my latest WOS-like hell map here, but I'm unfortunately running out of ideas and it's taking me too long. so, any chance someone wants a collab?

[Not Jabba]

In Doom, I like to think that there's a sort of "Tech Heaven" theme that is the opposite of Hell. Clean, shiny, generally cool colors, and purely inorganic as opposed to the rock and flesh of pure Hell--but just as abstract and inexplicable.

Examples would be Stardate 20X6, A.L.T. map 15, Kassman's maps for CC4, etc.

So that's something to think about. You could make use of the Tech Heaven theme without actually bringing God into it at all.

[joe-ilya]

I can't even open up superluigi's map, too many unknown textures for DB2.
And the link to the texture pack doesn't has it, it leads to the 111(doesn't exist) page of the first nova thread.

[EffinghamHuffnagel]

joe-ilya said:

https://www.mediafire.com/?38374k2s2mm31qa
I want the MAP20 slot and the "Running from Evil" MIDI in my map.
Name : Joe's Facility
Status : Finished

Finished? Did you actually play this? Did anyone?

http://i.imgur.com/xftkMs5.png

This was in ZDoom.

[mrthejoshmon]

Right, I also took a look at that joe-ilya map and after 3 playthroughs on multiple difficulties here are a few things I found that I think need fixing (All on UV):


This guy is next to 100% useless, he can't do shit.


This Hell Knight also sucks at his job, he also can't do shit.


This is not clever, this is not funny and it is not good map design. This right here is a complete and utter dick move that kills the entire map and also kills you in about 3 seconds (It is kinda hard to see because I had to immediately take the screenshot because of how fast you get fucked).



And then the exit room is completely filled with unclosed sectors!

Joe, did you actually test this map?
There is some major issues that completely ruin the entire experience.

[AD_79]

joe-ilya said:

We have 19 maps so far. 12 more are needed and someone should work on MAP29 and MAP30, I can come up with an idea for MAP30. MAP29 should be a large collaboration as I feel that MAP30 should be a straight boss battle or 2.
MAP32 can be an underlava map.

Haven't you submitted more than one map already, Joe? How about you try and improve the maps you have already submitted before going and making a new one.

[Breezeep]

AD_79 said:

Haven't you submitted more than one map already, Joe? How about you try and improve the maps you have already submitted before going and making a new one.

Yes. Please take a break from community projects and take time on your own personal projects to try and improve your skills.

[joe-ilya]

I forgot GLboom doesn't render that bug.
Gotta fix some bugs...
EDIT:There : https://www.mediafire.com/?38374k2s2mm31qa

[cannonball]

joe-ilya said:

I forgot GLboom doesn't render that bug.
Gotta fix some bugs...
EDIT:There : https://www.mediafire.com/?38374k2s2mm31qa

It's an ok map, perhaps need better connectivity than just having teleporters so people can move back and forth through the map.
Also that archvile should probably be deleted along with a couple of mancubi in the exit room, they really don't promote frenetic gameplay.

[dobu gabu maru]

Hi kildeth, sorry to do this but I made like two super minor changes to Surreptitious Ichor that I forgot to fix. Download here.

[AD_79]

Not gonna show any in-game images yet because the texturing is currently crap. For now, this layout is all I'm going to show, just to show that progress is happening (slowly).

[kildeth]

Really good layout. Gives me nostalgia for Doom I and it's maps.

[Egregor]

So its been about 2 months since my last update. My computer broke and I had to save up money to get it repaired. When I got it back I discovered that all my DOOM files had been lost. I have a backup of my old DOOM levels, released and otherwise, but the download post of my NOVA II level 'Monument to Thieves' is currently the only copy. Truth be told I really only lost about 5 hours of level balance and detail work for that level. I will eventually start mapping again but its going to take me a while to get back up to speed.

UPDATE/EDIT: Okay, I've got the essentials for DOOM. I'm using Freedoom as a placeholder IWAD and I must say, it's better than I remember! I should probably credit much of this to the updates that have taken place over the past few years. It's actually kind of a welcome change of scenery from stock vanilla textures, as similar as they are. Anyways, I can get back to mapping now! I look forward to submitting a finished level for this map set.

[Steve D]

AD_79 said:

Not gonna show any in-game images yet because the texturing is currently crap. For now, this layout is all I'm going to show, just to show that progress is happening (slowly).

I really like the looks of this. I'm a big fan of double stairways. It can make for some fun combat options.

[mrthejoshmon]

Progress:



The map layout (Actual structure) is done and all I need to do is populate it, I was messing around with gameplay when I thought of this idea.

Basically, the start outdoor area is a complete warzone, you will be attacked from all angles by positively hundreds of enemies.

You are left with three choices:

1: Run, run through it all and go into the actual map (indoor segment) under-equipped (But at least you made it, right?).

2: Be a hero, there is enough supplies to survive the fight and kill all of the enemies in the area (Infights will make it easier) and you will be able to pull off 100% kills much easier. It will also be easier to get the harder to reach supplies as the enemy count lowers.

3: Grab and run, run through it whilst taking some risks to get some of the available gear from the warzone without having to interfere (Much anyway). Be careful as some items will cause more enemies to teleport into the area.

And then the map will continue like one of my regular maps in the indoor area, I should also be finishing this up pretty soon.