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Patrol1985

John Carmack won't attend Quakecon 2014 :(

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Not really surprised. Just after he left id for good, I wondered if Zenimax would have even let him attend, to attempt to sweep him under the rug from the public eye (and thus take all future credit for anything) at the very least, if not for simply being mad at him. But now, with this lawsuit, it's entirely obvious that he won't be going.

If I were Carmack, I would refuse to go to any future Quakecons until Zenimax split from id (likely never to happen) to avoid giving business to a company that tried to screw me over. Such a sad situation, a shame that it's played out like this.

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Technician said:

Why would he? He's no longer affiliated.


He had wanted to. One of his tweets had read:

"If they don't want me to talk on stage at Quakecon next year, we'll just have to fill up the lobby like the old days. :-)"

And then the whole Zenimax lawsuit situation happened.

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doomgargoyle said:

at least tim willits will be there.

That's not really something to look forward to (in my opinion). The following things made me lose respect for him:

1. He advocates for always-on DRM and said that anyone that can't deal with it (like poor net connection) should fuck off. He said that it's "better for everyone" including consumers, so not only does he disrespect us, but he thinks we're stupid sheep as well.
2. He's in favor of on-disk DLC (aka pay us more money to play the rest of the game). He said that "this extra content isn't anything people will miss and if they really want it they can pay extra." Well, Tim, if people won't miss it, then why did you take it out as an incentive to kill used game sales? Because that particular bit of DLC comes free if you buy any new copy of Rage.
3. He dissed PSX Doom, claiming that the godawful PSN version is better. His description was something like "it's just Doom 1, but it sucks or something." I get it, you want new sales. So why don't you make a version that is actually superior? The PSX version actually had some effort put into it by its devs. They did completely new sound and music, added colored lighting, and even added some exclusive levels. The PSN version runs at a terrible framerate from what I hear, its only advantage over PSX Doom being that it uses the PC levels instead.

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doomgargoyle said:

Yeah, i was being sarcastic. tim willits sucks.

I so agree. His douchebaggery could be felt emanating through my laptop's wifi connection while trying to watch the Doom finale last year. That's some pretty strong funk.

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This really sucks man.... I always found his 2-3 hour keynotes speeches to be really cool, sometimes more interesting than the main event at quakecon.

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Sodaholic said:

2. He's in favor of on-disk DLC (aka pay us more money to play the rest of the game). He said that "this extra content isn't anything people will miss and if they really want it they can pay extra." Well, Tim, if people won't miss it, then why did you take it out as an incentive to kill used game sales? Because that particular bit of DLC comes free if you buy any new copy of Rage.


I absolutely love how he got beaten in his own game when it comes to Steam version of RAGE. The anarchy edition DLC is theoretically unavailable on Steam as it was exclusive for pre-orders... but all the data is within the game files and it can be easily activated via console :D The joke's on YOU Willits! :D

I really liked RAGE so I can't deny that Willits is a good game designer (in my opinion), but as a person he seems to be a very arrogant dude who doesn't care about the community. Compare that to Carmack who always released his source codes or Romero who attended game tournaments and provided cool material and interviews to give some background about DOOM development etc.

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reality 2.0 said:

This really sucks man.... I always found his 2-3 hour keynotes speeches to be really cool, sometimes more interesting than the main event at quakecon.


You mean that's not the main event? What's the main event supposed to be?

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Willits was once practically booed off stage for calling PC gamers - collectively - thieves. If you ask me, his beef must be that his paycheck isn't large enough to compensate for you-know-what.

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@Aliotroph?

The quake deathmatch silly. or at least I always considered the quake deathmatch to be the main event at quakecon.

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Sodaholic said:

That's not really something to look forward to (in my opinion). The following things made me lose respect for him:

1. He advocates for always-on DRM and said that anyone that can't deal with it (like poor net connection) should fuck off. He said that it's "better for everyone" including consumers, so not only does he disrespect us, but he thinks we're stupid sheep as well.
2. He's in favor of on-disk DLC (aka pay us more money to play the rest of the game). He said that "this extra content isn't anything people will miss and if they really want it they can pay extra." Well, Tim, if people won't miss it, then why did you take it out as an incentive to kill used game sales? Because that particular bit of DLC comes free if you buy any new copy of Rage.
3. He dissed PSX Doom, claiming that the godawful PSN version is better. His description was something like "it's just Doom 1, but it sucks or something." I get it, you want new sales. So why don't you make a version that is actually superior? The PSX version actually had some effort put into it by its devs. They did completely new sound and music, added colored lighting, and even added some exclusive levels. The PSN version runs at a terrible framerate from what I hear, its only advantage over PSX Doom being that it uses the PC levels instead.


I should get a psx to try psx doom. :)

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doomgargoyle said:

I should get a psx to try psx doom. :)

It's worth owning the console just for its version of Doom. It's considered one of the best console ports for a reason. I know I haven't regretted my purchase. The TC is good, too, though.

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You never know, maybe this'll help the two Johns kiss and make up. Then we can finally get that Daikatana 3D reboot we've all been after!

Seriously though, it is a shame that it seems like the glory days of Id along with Quakecon are gone and the whole thing has ended with a bad split and litigation... :(

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Such a shame really, ID is now completely just a shell of its former self.

Also with the DLC thing extra content is not cut content, I'm quite tired of the DLC is cut content conspiracy.

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Avoozl said:

Also with the DLC thing extra content is not cut content, I'm quite tired of the DLC is cut content conspiracy.

It entirely depends on context, I don't think one can claim absolutely one or the other without context. An extensive expansion pack is indeed extra content, not cut content. Some trivial player skins or whatever is extra, and not cut content. Stuff that's highly relevant to understanding the plot, literal on-disk content or external DLC that comes free with the purchase of a new copy is indeed cut content.

Honestly, can you look at me with a straight face and tell me that the way the sewer DLC in Rage is handled isn't even remotely scummy? It comes free with the purchase of a new copy of the game, that is clearly an attempt to combat used game sales. Is the content even remotely vital? No, but the devs themselves considered it to be close enough of the core experience to include it with the 'real' game. In this case, a used copy is a deliberately damaged copy. And if it's on-disk, then it's clear the developers view the consumers as exploitable sheep and not respected customers. At the very least, they could actually keep it off-disk to promote the illusion that it's extra content.

My opinion is that you have the right to use the game content that you've legally obtained in any way you see fit, whether ripping its content (so long as it is not directly distributed to others) or unlocking it to be used in the game itself. I realize that there are EULAs that try to break this by saying "you agree to only use the software as we see fit" to avoid users simply hacking their game to unlock on-disk "D"LC, but that's just a sign that you shouldn't do business with scummy devs and/or publishers like that. Though I realize that this is not the case, I think there should be laws that invalidate such EULAs, users should have the right to do whatever they want with the data they legally have access to so long as they don't distribute it in its raw form (I think difference patches are okay, though) and that they don't alter other parties' copies without their permission.

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Average said:

You never know, maybe this'll help the two Johns kiss and make up. Then we can finally get that Daikatana 3D reboot we've all been after!

Seriously though, it is a shame that it seems like the glory days of Id along with Quakecon are gone and the whole thing has ended with a bad split and litigation... :(


The bad split started with Doom (booting out Tom Hall) and continued. John Romero, Adrian Carmack, etc. all got kicked out until only John Carmack remained. Then he sold out to ZeniMax and left. The End

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I don't understand why people think this is the fall of id software now. Id was already a shambling zombie by the time ZeniMax bought it. Heck, the reason they sold out in the first place was because they were dead, and they craved a fresh influx of cash-blood as if it could make their shriveled heart beat again. (It of course didn't. They just pissed it all away.)

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Gez said:

I don't understand why people think this is the fall of id software now. Id was already a shambling zombie by the time ZeniMax bought it. Heck, the reason they sold out in the first place was because they were dead, and they craved a fresh influx of cash-blood as if it could make their shriveled heart beat again. (It of course didn't. They just pissed it all away.)


I think the reason Carmack gave for selling id was that they needed lots of money and a publisher's backing to push any kind of game they wanted to make, and being independent didnt allow them that anymore by themselves.

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Sodaholic said:

That's not really something to look forward to (in my opinion). The following things made me lose respect for him:

1. He advocates for always-on DRM and said that anyone that can't deal with it (like poor net connection) should fuck off. He said that it's "better for everyone" including consumers, so not only does he disrespect us, but he thinks we're stupid sheep as well.
2. He's in favor of on-disk DLC (aka pay us more money to play the rest of the game). He said that "this extra content isn't anything people will miss and if they really want it they can pay extra." Well, Tim, if people won't miss it, then why did you take it out as an incentive to kill used game sales? Because that particular bit of DLC comes free if you buy any new copy of Rage.
3. He dissed PSX Doom, claiming that the godawful PSN version is better. His description was something like "it's just Doom 1, but it sucks or something." I get it, you want new sales. So why don't you make a version that is actually superior? The PSX version actually had some effort put into it by its devs. They did completely new sound and music, added colored lighting, and even added some exclusive levels. The PSN version runs at a terrible framerate from what I hear, its only advantage over PSX Doom being that it uses the PC levels instead.

Son'Va'Bitch!
This is how you repay us for buying your games, Tim?!
What a dirty, low trick!

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Gez said:

The bad split started with Doom (booting out Tom Hall) and continued. John Romero, Adrian Carmack, etc. all got kicked out until only John Carmack remained. Then he sold out to ZeniMax and left. The End

This explains it.

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Quasar said:

his beef must be that his paycheck isn't large enough to compensate for you-know-what his beef.

ftfy

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Sodaholic said:

He dissed PSX Doom, claiming that the godawful PSN version is better. His description was something like "it's just Doom 1, but it sucks or something." I get it, you want new sales. So why don't you make a version that is actually superior? The PSX version actually had some effort put into it by its devs. They did completely new sound and music, added colored lighting, and even added some exclusive levels. The PSN version runs at a terrible framerate from what I hear, its only advantage over PSX Doom being that it uses the PC levels instead.


So that is the reason, why he did not mention PS1 DOOM in his interviews...

I remember once reading one of his interviews about RAGE, and he told something like "there was no DOOM on PS before" (he probably meant PlayStation family - PS1, PS2 and PS3). That bothered me, but I could not understand, why. And now, with Sodaholic's post, I understood, why.

That's quote rude, Mr. Willits. If it "sucks", then WTH it turned out to be in the "Greatest Hits" and later in "Platinum Hits", if it did suck? Becase those who bought it were stupid, or what?

PS. Feel sorry for Carmack...

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He's not affiliated with ID, but another good reason not to show up is the whole lawsuit thing.

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John Romero said the PSX version of Doom was fantastic and that Williams did a class act on it when I asked him for his opinion. Whose opinion means more? Romero, the guy who practically made Doom what it is, or shithead Willits?

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but the Willits levels for the Dooms were not so bad, maybe he should have stayed in level design, instead of you know.. talking.. company shareholding and getting his hands on shady drm bussines.

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