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jazzmaster9

Innocence II [Released! NOW ON IDGAMES]

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hihi, here's a fda (zd2.7.1): https://www.mediafire.com/?zyn3f0o2vhukd3g

so it's some sort of doom1.. tribute mapset? Buncha homages scattered throughout. map01-03 were a bit boring for me, very straightforward: open door --> hitscanners facing you --> camp the door and pick off enemies --> enter room and repeat. uurrrrrrrrrrgggh.

map04 was quite a bit better, perhaps for being noticeably harder, but it had some cool ideas as well. I like that the enemies in the main area could "invade" the starting room from 2 doors. Also the HK tele room was very well setup. The revs through the walls caught me offguard as well. Overall definitely my favorite in the set. The armory seemed a bit overkill. I never felt like I ever "needed" the PG or BFG, enemy density was consistently pretty low, or manageable with SSG/RL, so I had tons of cells throughout.

map05, eh. felt like a cyb with -fast. idk why the whole boss fight thing gets romanticized, they never seem to work in doom.

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I agree with Ribbiks's positives, but not the negatives. I had a blast playing this from start to finish, and given the fact that revenants kill me more often than anything else in the Doom universe, that BFG was a godsend. I dug the final boss fight, too -- one of the tougher cyberdemon battles I've experienced, especially given how trigger-happy this one is. I expected the intense beginning of the first map to get annoying, but I enjoyed it quite a bit -- if I'm cursing out loud, it's usually a sign that I'm REALLY into it. Fun little romp through hell.

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Ribbiks said:

hihi, here's a fda (zd2.7.1): https://www.mediafire.com/?zyn3f0o2vhukd3g

so it's some sort of doom1.. tribute mapset? Buncha homages scattered throughout. map01-03 were a bit boring for me, very straightforward: open door --> hitscanners facing you --> camp the door and pick off enemies --> enter room and repeat. uurrrrrrrrrrgggh.


Yes it is A DooM I re-imagining :) (well story wise for the most part)

I do agree with the straightforward-ness of the early maps, I kinda did a more "loop around" layout approach with the first 2 maps while playing around with gimmicks. Thanks for the feedback Ribbiks, I'll keep them in mind for future map sets.

Impie said:I dug the final boss fight, too -- one of the tougher cyberdemon battles I've experienced, especially given how trigger-happy this one is. [/B]


Thanks, I tested the boss fight many times to get it just right.

General Rainbow Bacon said:

Any reason these aren't boom compatible? You'll get a lot more responses if you make these vanilla/boom compatible.


I think It's kinda of a preference for me, I like to have ZDoom features handy in case I do end up using some, also some subtle scripting and the switch puzzle in Map 2 uses ACS.

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I enjoyed Innocence so i'll download Innocence II ASAP and give feedback in the near future!

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Nice tiny mapset. First, let me say that I really like how you keep making more and more maps and slowly improving. I admire you for that, support you in continuing and wish you good luck. So please don't let my other words to spoil it.

At first I've been impressed by this mapset, my excitement partially lowered after I had noticed how closely you got inspired by Doom 1. Style, atmosphere and gameplay-wise it's all good and great, but note that I advise you to make less direct tributes to particular areas from other people's maps. You know, style inspiration is awesome, homage might be cool depending on the implementation, but frequent "random" remakes of known areas might sometimes be viewed as a ripoff, and be condemned for that. Specially if it's done less skillfully that the model. Original level design and original ideas are always preferred by players who enjoy the game, over seeing random remakes / ripoffs, like if the mapper couldn't come up with his own and better idea. Your homages actually look like you've just made the IWAD rooms larger, slightly better looking and spiced up with your own style specifics (which tend to be repetitive, like the ways you hide secrets). That said - I'd like to see less "direct" homages in your maps.

IMO it was unnecessary to put helper marines to the start, also to have three imp variants that all do the same, the mapset would probably be better without these "features for the sake of having features". The same would apply to the other monster sprites, but I admit I really like their looks. Also I like the enhanced baron's behaviour (but not his sprite rescale, he'd look better with normal size).

The cyberdemon however, you could have spiced up the fight to be dynamic a bit more (while keeping it fair). For example by having the cyberdemon strafe or shoot homing rockets or something appropriate. As it is, it seems as a way too simple cyberdemon setup, where his unreliable aim only cause more random deaths (that's not good). Provided ammo was fine, anyway I wished I was less limited. I disliked the need to grab ammo from alcoves, which slowed me down and made me an easy target for the cyberdemon for a while. As I see it, it wasn't a well made boss fight, but not at all a bad one, either.

The plain simple style of yours - disregarding IWAD tributes in your maps - has little interesting in it. Definitely not in a mind-blowing way. To be honest, none of your design stroke me as specially interesting / memorable in either architecture or combat. But it's good enough to make a satisfying game, and that suffices, of course. Perhaps you'd still improve the way you build architecture / set up gameplay situations that are original and elaborate enough to be interesting.

The maps were a bit too short and too little challenging and had too much ammo for a continuous playthrough, but definitely they were pleasant to play and I had a good time with them. I haven't encountered any bugs.

So again, good job.

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scifista42 said:

At first I've been impressed by this mapset, my excitement partially lowered after I had noticed how closely you got inspired by Doom 1. Style, atmosphere and gameplay-wise it's all good and great, but note that I advise you to make less direct tributes to particular areas from other people's maps.


Noted! I felt like my last mapset did not have enough homages so I kinda made up here, But ended up going over board, hehe.

scifista42 said:

IMO it was unnecessary to put helper marines to the start, also to have three imp variants that all do the same, the mapset would probably be better without these "features for the sake of having features". The same would apply to the other monster sprites, but I admit I really like their looks.


I wanted to give that Doom 3 feel where monsters looked different in Hell to enhance the setting a bit.

scifista42 said:

The cyberdemon however, you could have spiced up the fight to be dynamic a bit more (while keeping it fair). For example by having the cyberdemon strafe or shoot homing rockets or something appropriate.


I tried Both of these before the release of the beta and it made the fight kinda unfair.

scifista42 said:

The maps were a bit too short and too little challenging and had too much ammo for a continuous playthrough.


I'll there were some areas that I though were a bit too easy, so i'll re-balance them.

Thanks for the Feedback.

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Beta Version 2 now available!

changes:

- Rebalanced some gameplay (added monsters, subtracted ammo, etc) in Maps 1 and 2, since they were a bit easy.
- Map 01 no longer has the E2M1 Cross. It was getting in the way of the gameplay.

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jazzmaster9 said:

- Map 01 no longer has the E2M1 Cross. It was getting in the way of the gameplay.


That's too bad, I liked the cross. It provided one of the most memorable moments during my playthrough.

*demons and revenant mob Impie*
IMPIE: RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!
*Impie flees back through cross, watches gleefully as revenant starts taking out the demons, which are unable to fit through the cross to continue pursuit.*
IMPIE: Ha-ha! Suckers!
*Revenant strolls right through the cross.*
IMPIE: HOLY SH--! *swallows a fireball and dies*

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Impie said:

That's too bad, I liked the cross. It provided one of the most memorable moments during my playthrough.

*demons and revenant mob Impie*
IMPIE: RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!
*Impie flees back through cross, watches gleefully as revenant starts taking out the demons, which are unable to fit through the cross to continue pursuit.*
IMPIE: Ha-ha! Suckers!
*Revenant strolls right through the cross.*
IMPIE: HOLY SH--! *swallows a fireball and dies*


LOL.

Yeah it got in the way for me, I found out that you can basically funnel them there which kinda made the fight too easy.

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I agree with most of what Scifista said, except i actually enjoyed the cyberdemon fight i didn't mind being "slower down" if i needed ammos considering all you need to do is lure a cyb around the cover a bit to be safe.

I did notice improvement in your mapping compared to Innocence while it wasn't particularily challenging the gameplay was good enough to play it all in one sitting.

MAP04 was my favorite of the set. Some good traps like the Revenants hidden behind the fake wall and of course the Hellknight trap which caught me off guard and made me die once.

Good work again~ Looking forward to a possible Innocence III maybe? (:

EDIT: About the switch sequence in, i think, MAP02. I don't see much point to it. I'd have instead built the level around placing the switches in various parts of the map, which would end up opening the exit to MAP03, instead of having all 4 switches in one room just because.

You could have made a good trap with in that room, keeping both mancubus on the sides but add an extra one, who warps in, and cover the door.

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Archvile78 said:

MAP04 was my favorite of the set. Some good traps like the Revenants hidden behind the fake wall and of course the Hellknight trap which caught me off guard and made me die once.

Thanks! Map 4 I believe was the best of the set, It is supposed to be the penultimate level.

Archvile78 said:

Good work again~ Looking forward to a possible Innocence III maybe?

Yes there will be an Innocence III !

Archvile78 said:

About the switch sequence in, i think, MAP02. I don't see much point to it.

That was just me playing around with short gimmicks.

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Beta Version 3 now available!

changes:

- Moved some sector around so that a particular secret in Map 3 is accessible without mouselook (it's a shoot/projectile activated secret).
- Some minor retexturing.

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I played through all 5 main maps, though I didn't find the secret map so I just IDCLEV'd to it afterwards.

I really enjoyed this and there's a very clear Doom 1 feeling to the maps. I got surprised by the Baron's triple attack which caused my only death on the playthrough. Map 4 is by far the best of the mapset in my opinion, containing some excellent sections. The start of the map was excellent, and I liked the Arch Vile placement there. With the amount of rockets around I was expecting a few more enemies, but if you just use the SSG on the single encounters and save the rockets for the groups of enemies then you can easily get through.

I ended up only using the BFG in the final fight, where I ate a rocket to the face. That exemplifies why I never use partial invisibility in normal fights like this as I normally take more damage than I can avoid! Great mapset.

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Larzuk said:

Nice to see this released. I've already started my play through of the wad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3rRv-sJm9A


Sweet, I'll be sure to check it out.

degree23 said:

I really enjoyed this and there's a very clear Doom 1 feeling to the maps. I got surprised by the Baron's triple attack which caused my only death on the playthrough. Map 4 is by far the best of the mapset in my opinion, containing some excellent sections. The start of the map was excellent, and I liked the Arch Vile placement there.


Yeah I wanted Level 4 to be an intense fight, it is the penultimate map after all.

Thank you guys for the feedback.

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Sweet, I'll have to download this tonight.

I just finished off the first Innocence yesterday: nothing particularly memorable, but it was a fun little set of moderately-difficult maps (with the start of MAP04 seeing me running for my life and getting absolutely annihilated.) The bosses in MAP05 definitely caught me by surprise. :)

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Played through the whole thing on HMP last night. Good stuff! MAP04 was definitely a beast. I'm not sure that the new replacement monsters were necessary, since their behavior didn't seem to be altered any from the originals, though I confess the nightmare imps were fantastic. (And were the barons in Innocence 1 giant as well? I never even noticed at the time.) Looking forward to #3. :)

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Howdy, just finished playing through this now. Really enjoyed it, especially map4 as noted by others. Was on the edge of my seat trying to grab the RL and get back into the starting room while the AV followed and tried to touch me inappropriately.

I liked the variation in monster appearances - but some functional differences would have been nice to keep me guessing.

It seemed like the wad wasn't trying to be anything too mind blowing - just fun for an evening. Time well spent.

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scrooloose said:

Howdy, just finished playing through this now. Really enjoyed it, especially map4 as noted by others. Was on the edge of my seat trying to grab the RL and get back into the starting room while the AV followed and tried to touch me inappropriately.

I liked the variation in monster appearances - but some functional differences would have been nice to keep me guessing.

It seemed like the wad wasn't trying to be anything too mind blowing - just fun for an evening. Time well spent.


I'm glad that you liked it :D

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