The DWmegawad Club plays: MAYhem2048

[dobu gabu maru]

MAP08: Another fantastic map. It’s elegantly designed with a good looping layout, and features traps that make good use of the constricted space. The only problem is that it feels a tad easy, especially coming off of the hot bitch that was Memfis’s medikit-parched monstrosity, as here most of the medikits were in abundance. Still though, it’s a lot of fun to fight through with a very satisfying finale.

[Steve D]

Map08 - Sheltered Outpost by an_mutt - Kills - 97, Items - 98 - Secret - 33. Death Count - 3

UV pistol-start on GZDoom, the way I'm doing almost all of the maps, though I'll switch to Risen3D soon because some of the maps, like Obsidian's upcoming Besieged, require 100% Boom compatibility -- it was impossible to exit when I playtested it with GZDoom. That said . . .

Sweet map. I first became aware of an_mutt when watching Suitepee livestream his DWMP2013 map, which had impressive architecture and fierce gameplay that gave the redoubtable Suitepee all he could handle. What really got me, though, was when the mutt said he built the thing in 3.5 hours!

What we have here is a remarkably big-feeling map with, as DoTW noted, very good use of height variation along with clever use of the areas outside the 2048x2048 box. Unusually in this mapset so far, you can overlook the outer areas where monsters prowl, especially that great view from the tech area giving onto the rocket launcher tunnel. Quite impressive work.

Among the areas, the standard tech section was the weakest, mainly owing to that, IMO, ugly bathroom tile texture. Yeesh! The best-looking section was the rocket launcher tunnel, with well-chosen textures, excellent wall detail and ominous darkness. The high ceiling in this area also worked to create an impression of great size in this map.

I'd like to make note of the fun strafe-jump for the first SSG. I enjoy stuff like that.

The gameplay had a nice touch of savagery, but given the large number of heavy monsters, it was a bit easier than it ought to be, mainly owing to health tossed out like Christmas candy.

I still managed to die 3 times. My first death came in the upper tech section, when I got torched by the sniping Arachnotron. I next died in the still-higher tech section when, at low health -- ! -- I was set upon by the PE and lacked the ammo to take it out. My final death occurred on my first go at the rocket launcher, when I panicked at the influx of enemies and ran back to the start area -- yes, the very start -- and in the process woke up a nest of Revvies and their buddy, Archibald McJagoff. I raced past Archie and made it all the way to the start when I was cornered by 2 Revvies at close quarters, and couldn't use the RL.

I discovered that the rocket launcher fight is really quite easy if you don't go, "Ooh, shiny!" and grab the RL immediately. Instead, a leisurely clean-up of the side area leading to the exit gave me a nice chillout spot while the monsters whaled away on each other, afterwhich I went and killed the survivors. An amusing kill was rocketing a Caco after it was wounded by the crushers.

My first go at the exit saw me panic yet again and take a lot of damage as I raced blindly right to the exit switch, and with Revvies shrieking in my ear, I pressed that switch and exited with a mere 79% kills, so I opened a saved game, made sure my plasma gun was at the ready, and dealt with the end-fight rather easily. Indeed, the biggest problem was the Archie, which may have been blown off its perch by a rocket. I thought I had killed it with the plasma gun before I started shooting rockets up there, but somehow, it ended-up in Sector 231, with very little room to move. Indeed, at first I thought the Archie growl I was hearing indicated an Archie still in a teleporter or a monster closet, until I happened to catch a glimpse of it moving. There followed a somewhat tedious bit of shotgun drill as I single-barreled it to oblivion, but it took many shots because of the acute firing angle.

All in all a very satisfying journey in a map that feels enormous and has a beautifully-staged rocket launcher fight.

[Phil1984]

Map08 - Sheltered Outpost by an_mutt

UV pistol start on pr-boom+ 2.5.1.4.test

Deaths - 1 / Kills - 104% / Secrets - 100%

I feel like I'm the bears in the Goldilocks fairy-tale. Map06 too little health! Map08 too much health! When do we find the baby bear map?

I did enjoy the map. It was well constructed, with a nice inter-connecting flow to the whole thing with some decent fights thrown in. The map itself has some deadly traps that if you are not careful will quickly end your life. But if you survive those traps, then refilling your health isn't a problem at all so overall I just found this map a little too easy.

The look of the level is interesting with some novel uses of texturing. It somehow manages to work, and combined with a minimalistic, yet effective architecture creates a pleasant environment to blow monsters up in.

Overall it's arguably the best map of the set so far thanks to the great fights that are sprung upon you. I just wish there was a little less health to keep things more interesting in between the traps.

[joe-ilya]

MAP08
While the gameplay is good some of the flats are wierd, there's a wooden ceiling on the window behind the start point and there's a brick ceiling in another one of the windows. That rocket launcher trap isn't that hard, the health should get cut down right there and the exit trap is stupid, it's easy to dodge, just get into the exit building and push the button, the button could slowly lower a floor to the actual exit(or maybe some slow stairs or even a lift so you'll have to time it, or just a door, but prefably a floor)
4/5 Needs texturing/flating inspection and less health.

[Demonologist]

Map08 - “Sheltered Outpost” by an_mutt
I saw a couple of maps by an_mutt before, especially his DMP2013 entry noted by SteveD is a very competent and highly enjoyable map, so my hopes with this one were pretty high. And I wasn't disappointed. Solid visuals, good usage of space without overwhelming crampedness and easy but entertaining and fast gameplay that starts somewhat slow but quickly picks up the pace. Very good map, one of the better ones in the whole set.

[mouldy]

Map08 - “Sheltered Outpost” by an_mutt

Excellent map, started off fairly easy but had a couple of cool battles. The yellow key fight was particularly interesting for me as I found myself with no ammo, and for some reason was unable to grab the rocket launcher due to monsters getting in the way, so lots of panicked running and dodging. The final battle was a fight to find cover, I was so close to surviving it the first time, but a couple of unlucky archvile blasts left me with no health and I died from catching a stray bullet. Second time I escaped via the crushers. I think thats the great thing about this map, the design gives you ample opportunity to escape if you are quick to react, and the whole place is nicely wrapped around on itself. Also it doesn't suffer from feeling constrained to a particular area, it just feels like the size it was meant to be. Very cool.

[Phobus]

MAP08:
An enjoyable map that either kills you in a trap when it is first sprung or won't get you at all (this time, my experience was the latter). Looks good, had nice music and a couple of exciting fights to go with some more general opposition. I found all three secrets this time... Can't imagine how I missed any before, but that's hindsight for you. As others have mentioned, the available space is well used.

Can't say I'm looking forwards to tomorrow's map...

[Magnusblitz]

MAP08: Sheltered Outpost by an_mutt
98% kills, 1/3 secrets

Like MAP06, another good design worming it's way around the 2048x2048 area, as well as using lots of outside-the-bounds areas for monsters, giving the impression of a larger map. While not as polished aesthetics-wise, it still looks pretty good (aside from the weird moonbase/medieval tomb mashup). I really liked the design of some of the fights - such as putting monsters between the RL and the player on the yellow key, or the crushers near the yellow key for the final fight (I backed up into them and stood in a safe spot by pure luck).

[cannonball]

Map08 - “Sheltered Outpost” by an_mutt
This was a pretty neat map. Pretty easy and good looking. I died once due to a mancubus getting some lucky RNG (3 rockets plus a very accurate ssg shot and he didn't go down). There are a few monsters around the perimeter that are a pain to kill at times but otherwise there are no other complaints.

[Marcaek]

Whoops, I got sidetracked.

Map02: The Dark Tower by ChaingunnerX

A really nice view at the start kind of gives the impression you're actually going to be climbing some kind sharp-contrast lighted tower, but unfortunately that isn't the case. Once you're up the lift you're clearing out a small techbase interior with barely visible imps and a hellknight(which i wasn't too bothered by, honestly). There was mention of armor that was tricky to grab, but a nearby switch lowers the floor around it and I didn't have much trouble grabbing it afterward. The gameplay highlight is the outdoor area immediately following, with shotgunners prowling the darkened paths and taking potshots from behind trees while distant, barely visible imps snipe at you from safety. Once you clear that you're rewarded with an unfortunately unengaging switchhunt for the exit, which was a bit of a letdown. I had fun fighting blind, and the map was short enough to not be bothered by the flaws, but they are there IMO.

Map03: Outpost Delta by Obsidian

I liked this map a bit, surprised to see so much flak. The mud sectors didn't bother me once I was aware of their existence, but that may be instinct because I'm somewhat familiar with Boom specials and it seemed likely friction would be present in them, so your mileage may vary. I laughed at the pit of water, wasn't expecting that although I DID pick up the radsuit beforehand, made me wonder why I've never seen deep water in a serious Boom map, honestly. Archie is only a little threatening here. Some irritating pain elementals but that's what they're good at. I exited the map by accident after clearing everything I intended to, that setup caught me off guard but I appreciate the re-use of the start telepad. Maybe that key-switch secret at the start is too obvious, but given the lack of provisions is welcome.

[Memfis]

09 - I thought I'll trash this map when I saw that beginning with friction tunnels but it turned out to be quite interesting. Monster placement is pretty basic for the most part, but that shooting gallery is enjoyable and the level is full of all sorts of design ideas and gimmicks, none of them annoying apart from the starting room. Not the kind of level I usually enjoy at all but it kept entertaining me with cool surprising stuff so I liked it. The green room with the arch-vile looks amazing for some reason btw.

[Solarn]

MAP09, "Dismay" by Scypek2. Played in prBoom+.

The drainage tunnels at the start were an interesting gimmick, but to be honest, I'm glad they were only there for that one area. The slowdown would have gotten old really fast. The rest of the map was pretty good, although towards the end I started to dread every new area, pickup and switch. I'm definitely not a fan of monster closets.

The progression was sometimes unclear and I'm still not sure what the hidden switch in the dark area did or how the yellow key area was supposed to work. The shooting gallery was challenging, although mainly for my ammo count. There was also a HOM in that area. If you click the switch that starts the shooting gallery and then back out of it, the lowered bridge will reveal an untextured wall.

Overall, this was a fun map with a few issues that stopped it from being top quality. I still enjoyed it.

[Demon of the Well]

Map 09 -- DisMAY - 101% Kills / 100% Secrets
This is 'that' map for me--there is essentially nothing about it that I like, other than that it's fairly concise.

In terms of both aesthetics and especially gameplay, it's almost entirely either a non-event at best or a faceplanting misfire at worst. Rooms are blocky, highly orthogonal, cramped and generally quite squat--the author took the opposite tack to what an_mutt chose in map 08, trying to cram as many rooms/concepts as possible into the limited 2048x2048 space. There is very little conceptual or thematic consistency (other than perhaps the shocking percentage of monsters which cannot approach the player)--ideas don't seem related to one another in any meaningful way, and for that reason level progression seems haphazard and piecemeal; it's full of switches and little chores to do, but there's very little sense of what is actually being accomplished in doing any of it (that the level flows at all is more a function of its very limited real estate rather than its design). The disparate areas are generally separated in a linear fashion by a great many doors, contributing to a very choppy flow (the inclusion of some 100% pointless movement-slowing tunnels early on doesn't help in this regard), which seems to be a common pitfall for maps that operate under strict space restrictions. Whatever the case may be, it's generally not ideal for playing Doom to feel like sitting in stop/go rush hour traffic.

As a topper, it's also generally ugly in terms of surface aesthetic. The chief problem in this regard is that so many of the texture/color combos are simultaneously dingy and garish. The one spot that really epitomizes the problem is the outdoor area with the two teleporters, featuring a building textured in a badly-tiling grimy cement composite, juxtaposed with a strange cherry-red rockflow juxtaposed with bright green masonry ('like Christmas'), all floating in a sea of lava under that burning orange sky...Hell has truly arrived, and it has the soul of a 1960s interior decorator. Compounding this issue is the generally unattractive blockiness and some concourse issues--small instances of texture misalignment, very jarring texture transitions (particularly pronounced near the bridge into the shooting gallery), etc.

As I've said once before, though, all of these aesthetic qualms would be more than forgiven if the map were fun to play...but it's not. At its best it offers us boring room-clearing skirmishes against small groups of weaklings (a natural consequence of its squidgy door-heavy build), and at its worst it offers a great deal of tedious janitorial combat against monsters (a few of them with more substantial amounts of HP) who are trapped in stuffy little cages or compartments in the base's walls, which is even less thrilling because the targets are static. The centerpiece encounter is the shooting gallery setup, which is essentially a mandatory chokepoint fight which simply lasts longer than the others.

I know exactly what the design philosophy here is--"I'm going to be brave and do something DIFFERENT"--but novelty can't often stand for very long or very strong all by its lonesome....it needs substance as far as the fundamentals go, as well, and this map brings almost nothing to the table in that regard, which is dismaying, to say the least.

Bug: In the third phase of the shooting gallery scene, the mancubus and cacodemon are stuck together at the back of their closet in -cl9 (this is on MAYhem2048-plm2.wad).

[Seele00TextOnly]

Map09 - "Dismay" by Scypek2

This map felt really creative. Not a fan of the friction surface but it's only a brief appearance. My favorite part was probably the shooting gallery segment, and those winding stairs to the exit.

A Mancubus and a Cacodemon are stuck in eachother in a closet, preventing 100% kills. (edit: now I see i've been ninja'd while playing in reporting this bug)

Map was moderately fun and had some pretty cool stuff! Kind of a mishmash though.

(sorry for not my usual style of write up; kind of a busy day)

[Demonologist]

Map09 - “Dismay” by Scypek2
Each time I happen to see a map from Scypek2, I start to question his sanity. It seems to me that he knows how to do things, but refuses to do them the right way and produces another abhorrence instead. His 'style' (I guess I could call it that way, even though it sounds a bit too loud) never ever did it for me, not even remotely. Still, this particular map is slightly less horrible than other works of his I was unfortunate enough to come across in the past, it's even somewhat playable, FWIW. Anyway, I can call it average at best, definitely not the thing to be bothered with again. Next.

[joe-ilya]

MAP09
Wierd and annoying at times. You don't have to push the title mayhem onto my face, I had the TITLEPIC so that's enough of a sign of what I'm gonna play. The tunnels at the start are annoying shit that just slow down the gameplay, nothing else. The map has its own creative moments like that shooting gallery and the exit decoration, its like you're trying to push us into MAYHEM2013 which was a rooftop level by him, that one is way better than this one because it's a cooler concept than this kind of quicksand center annoying map.
3/5

[Phil1984]

Map09 - “Dismay” by Scypek2
UV pistol start on pr-boom+ 2.5.1.4.test
Deaths - 0 / Kills - 97% / Secrets - 75%

This level simply rubbed me the wrong way. At no stage did I enjoy myself in this map. It pissed me off right from the start having to explore those slow-ass pipes. The architecture was very uninspiring and at times visually disgusted me (such as the area inside the blue key door). And while the blue key shooting galley was probably the best part gameplay wise about this level, 2 nasty HOMS ruined even that area for me.

As for the gameplay I just found it very dull with not much going on. No real height variation, no struggle for survival, no devious monster placement, nothing that interested me at all.

[NuMetalManiak]

oh god my map is next, time to give some background info to help some people who might get lost.

the map was inspired partially by the "All Sliged Up" project, which I played prior to making this. monsters are quite varied. plus the map has texture variation all over the place. and I decided to be a jerk and use my least favorite thing ever--teleport traps, along the map because people nowadays like surprises for some odd reason.

nonlinear, press six switches to lower the exit in the center. totally not tested in gameplay, SP, coop, or DM, although starts and extra monsters/weapons are there. also has a MOD for the music

it's a shame i couldn't update it much, which is why i said (back in that thread) for someone, anyone to help me out with it. i was too busy working during the whole month!

[mouldy]

Map09 - “Dismay” by Scypek2

Curious puzzle type map, feels a bit experimental and is full of little wtf moments, though not all in a good way. I'm not all that keen on breaking-the-4th-wall maps, so this one got off on the wrong foot I guess. The thing is, if you are pushing back the boundaries of normality in such a bold way from the start, then I think the map itself needs to be a little bit more crazy and surreal, and while this one does have moments of strangeness it is fairly conservative in general design and conflict scenarios, basic even. Very little in the way of height variation or imaginative fight scenarios, and the main center-piece battle is pretty much space invaders. Feels like I'm coming down pretty hard on this map, I didn't hate it, but I would probably avoid talking to it at a party.

[Phil1984]

Getsu Fune said:

oh god my map is next, time to give some background info to help some people who might get lost.



it's a shame i couldn't update it much, which is why i said (back in that thread) for someone, anyone to help me out with it. i was too busy working during the whole month!

While I'm aware I can't give the map a full review until tomorrow, here is my preview. Best Map yet.

[dobu gabu maru]

Demon of the Well said:

This is 'that' map for me--there is essentially nothing about it that I like, other than that it's fairly concise.

Ah see, it's interesting to know that since I was going to put my money on MAP31 or joe's map, but perhaps I should've expected that Scypek's quirky style would not resonate well with you. It's also funny how opinions work—I found myself enjoying Scypek's journey while you were thoroughly unimpressed, while on the other hand I found Getsu Fine's map to be the offensive nadir of the E1 set while Phil1984 thinks it's the best.

MAP09: Scypek2 is the master of wacky adventures. Here we’re led through an angular complex filled with a small variety of encounters, the most notable being the shooting gallery with a clip spewer at your side. It’s an entertaining romp if not a bit safe (save for the tight AV encounter which has a great mix of baddies), and I’ve definitely played worse maps by Scypek. The return to the rooftops at the end is a cute throwback; well done.

[Magnusblitz]

MAP09: Dismay by Scypek2
94% kills, 1/4 secrets

This map misses the mark for me. The layout feels like something out of Wolfenstein in places - lots of orthagonal rooms connected by orthagonal hallways broken up with doors, with little height variation or windows or anything interesting. Because of this layout, there's actually a decent amount of the 2048x2048 space that gets wasted. The texturing starts out okay but then descends into color vomit. Gameplay-wise it's pretty boring, I liked the shooting gallery section but that was about it.

Actually, the thing I can appreciate most is the subtle teleport set up in the outside area - it looks like you're just teleporting across the lava lake, but you're actually completely switching areas (in order to fit within the 2048 bounds).

[Steve D]

Map09 - Dismay by Scypek2 - Kills - 98, Items - 50, Secret - 75. Death Count - 2

UV pistol-start in Risen3D.

mouldy said:

Map09 - “Dismay” by Scypek2
Feels like I'm coming down pretty hard on this map, I didn't hate it, but I would probably avoid talking to it at a party.

Classic comment. ;)

I was all prepared to hate this map when I took a quick look in GZDoom yesterday, after Phobus's portentious comment, and based on the friction floors and shooting gallery figured I'd just skip it. But I decided that today would be a good time for switching to Risen3D in order to get full Boom compatibility, and gave it a go only to discover that the friction floors are even more powerful than in GZDoom! ;D The damned things wouldn't let go of me once I came to the end. Note to Skypek2 -- this is not a way to please SteveD! ;D

So yeah, I hated that part, but going further, and noting the many cases of ugliness that DoTW and others have mentioned, I found the map to be quite idiosyncratic, and while I wouldn't want to play a ton of maps like this, at times it did put a smile on my face.

The shooting gallery was strange. In GZDoom, the Manc and Caco did come out at the end, whereas they did not in Risen3D. I checked that part of the room in DB2 and I think I know what the problem is; the Caco should only be there on Easy. Medium has a Hell Knight and Hard has the Manc, with only the Caco on all skill settings, but across the way, a Caco shares the Revvie closet but is only there on Easy while the Revvie is present in Medium and Hard, so I'm guessing this is just an oversight on Skypek2's part. CorSair did an FDA, but if the monsters get stuck in PRBoom, as they seem to, he may not have noticed and Skypek2 may not have been informed. After all, we are playtesters, not clairvoyants who know what monsters ought to appear.

Anyway, as a result of that error, in GZDoom, I thought the set-up was very unfair and luck-based. I had to face a Revvie, a Caco and a Manc with no health, no cover and no heavy weapons. That's 3 high HP monsters with homing rockets and spray fire on their side. On that basis, I planned to DNF the map, so as it turns out, playing in Risen3D made it quite doable, since I only had to deal with the Revvie. A Revvie and Manc would be pushing it for me, but would also introduce the possibility of starting an infight.

Enough of that. Suffice to say I survived the shooting gallery on Risen3D.

Another issue is the semi-secret door in the Extremely Dark Room which has a switch that activates a distant sector -- everyone's favorite. If you go into that room and press the switch while looking at the automap in hopes of figuring out what the switch does, and the door closes behind you, you'll get stuck in the room. This should be changed. I clipped my way out. This whole set-up is annoying because, aside from the possibility of getting stuck, you need to hit that switch to proceed in the map, so any player who doesn't find it may rage-quit. This reminds me of a similar flaw in another Map09 . . . ;D

My first death happened in the red key fight, a glorious door-camping exercise (sarcasm). When I finally walked into the room Chaingun Charlie blitzed me from that sneaky little side alcove. At least on my second go I found the path to the secret Zerk.

I suppose I have to mention that corrugated hallway you teleport to prior to the red key fight. Damn, that must be what DoTW was thinking of when he talked about stop-start traffic. But it really does sum up the map, because this is a very linear set of scripted encounters that you have to face head-on, with little if any possibility of retreat and absolutely no alternate ways to attack a scenario. I suppose I'd call it Control Freak Mapping -- you do it the mapper's way or not at all.

My final death came by Archie, and let it be said, I'm usually an easy out when presented with a sudden Archie attack in a confined space, especially if Archibald has buddies to back him up. And backing up was not a possibility, since that only led into toxic floors. Yes, you do teleport onto your cover, as I quickly realized, I just failed to take out that chaingunner fast enough the first time. I did think this weird green room was the coolest one in the map, mainly because of Risen3D's glowing torch effect that set things off nicely, along with the interesting cubic architecture.

The exit, with its giant "Sales" sign was a nice way to end matters. No thematic relation to anything else in the map, of course, but the oddball humor drew a chuckle.

So in the end, I killed everything except the Manc and Caco in the shooting gallery. I hope TheMionicDonut contacts Skypek2 about that error, as well as the HOM and the switch closet you can get stuck in (Sector 451). I also found every secret except the big room with all the numbers on the floor that contains the Soulsphere and Blue Armor.

Skypek2 clearly has his Boom-tricks down. The gameplay wasn't so exciting to me because it was not based on combat and movement, more like jamming the player into a restricted space and daring them to survive, at least on those rare encounters where the action was intense. There is another mapper coming up, well-known at least to DoTW, whose joy is jamming the player into a tomato can with heavy monsters, and his map is a likely candidate for me to rage-quit, DNF, or play on HNTR. But Skypek2's map seems more oriented to clever humor, such as the shooting gallery with its cool Ammo button. It's a bit goofy and whimsical, but in the end, removing the friction floors and fixing the noted bugs would be enough to get a thumbs-up from me.

[cannonball]

Map09 - “Dismay” by Scypek2
This certainly is strange and at times pretty buggy. Most notably the blue key room as many others have pointed out. Also I got stuck in sector 451 (room with secret switch which opens the hitscanner corridor for easier kills).
I kind of liked this one in certain ways, but at the same time some places made me rage. Middle of the road this one overall, a higher achievement considering that there is nothing average in this map :P

[Memfis]

probably my last post here as I'm getting bored of playing/writing

10 - This was a good challenge, I died like nine times maybe. Could have been a boring level with uninspired monster placement and lots of door fights but what made it great for me was the balance. It's just perfect: I always run out of ammo when there are still a few monsters left in the next room, so I have to enter it and try to quickly collect some stuff while exposing myself to dangerous attacks. This results in good hectic gameplay which I enjoyed in a somewhat masochistic way.

[Seele00TextOnly]

Map10 - “Sligeneous” by Getsu Fune

I find the progression in this map questionable at best, there are certainly many different directions the player can go at times but i doubt very much that the map has been balanced to allow for them to properly function as such. Am I to take from the name that this map was originally made in Slige and then modified?

Instant popup monsters room sort of bugged me, but worse there's a switch you hit that i couldn't figure out what it does other than flood the room with a few more jerks and an Arachnotron. The ammo balancing is such that I felt I had to Chainsaw the stupid thing to death. Backtracked under the uselessly unthreatening crusher and luckily got the Rev and Hellknight to infight then picked off the survivor. Get the SSG in a hitscanner filled room, hit a switch that again i have no idea what it did, come back out to face a agonizingly slow trickle in of Imps.

After they finally stop, I head down a lift and killed an atrociously placed Mancubus (it kept trying to ride the lift up to face me but was too fat) then down another lift where ANOTHER Mancubus waits. This one I Chainsawed, and went ahead and sawed the Imps and PE down there as well. Oh great, now a switch I have to step into the nukeage and take damage to hit. Thanks. Thanks a whole hell of a lot. This brings in some Revenents and I dispatch them, but guess what this switch did? Say it with me now: 'I have no idea'. Head down a hallway and skip a room that goes up some steep stairs to proceed down the hall to higher stairs and SSG some Revs that walk right through the stupid wall. Thanks. At least now I get some Plasma.

Finally go into the room with the unavailable Exit in it that had proven deadly to me in early runs somehow; oh look there's another switch in here. You know the drill. Clear out the lower room with Revs, PE, Manc, and a instant popup Baron. Did I mention I really dislike instant popup? At least make them come from water or something. How the hell is he rising up through the solid ground. Time to hit another switch and I guess this is just one of those maps, the kind like map02 of this wad where you have to hit about 5 things spread out just to leave. Not so fun. A couple more switches and I hear monsters in the Exit room so I guess it's time to finally leave once I've Plasmad the Archie and its friends.

I just did not have fun with this map. Maybe I'm being unfair, I did enjoy some of the challenge aspects, but some of the gimmicks and the thing placements all around really rubbed me wrong. It definitely felt larger than it is. I just found 1 secret but that was enough for me.

[Steve D]

Memfis said:

probably my last post here as I'm getting bored of playing/writing

Bummer! I was really hoping for the Memfis comments on my map. Alas, it's a long way to Map25. ;)

[NuMetalManiak]

Seele00TextOnly said:

Am I to take from the name that this map was originally made in Slige and then modified?

no because that wouldn't be accepted, obviously.

dobu gabu maru said:

Ah see, it's interesting to know that since I was going to put my money on MAP31 or joe's map, but perhaps I should've expected that Scypek's quirky style would not resonate well with you. It's also funny how opinions work—I found myself enjoying Scypek's journey while you were thoroughly unimpressed, while on the other hand I found Getsu Fine's map to be the offensive nadir of the E1 set while Phil1984 thinks it's the best.

but Phil hasn't played it yet! he just gave a preview opinion which will probably change once he plays it!

OTOH i've never been one for Scypek's maps either, although i haven't played this, from what i've played of his, he always hides his secrets in such a weird manner and progression is just as awkward and confusing. sometimes it's fun and sometimes it isn't I guess.

[dobu gabu maru]

I'll definitely agree that Scypek is definitely unorthodox with his design choices.

MAP10: Didn’t like this one. I'm glad it was a nonlinear level, with each path leading you into some very dangerous situations, but I found the abundance of big enemies in tight spaces along with the lack of health for the first half of the level to be really tiring. Since I saved at low health, nearly every room I went into resulted in my doom thanks to enemies flanking me on all sides, forcing me to lure them to the archway to punch their brains out. The stair section on the eastern side is really terrible too, as (playing on keyboard) you can’t look down at the sergeants firing at your feet for 30% health of your health. Ditto for the small room with the chaingunner and imps—I had to memorize their locations and fire “aimlessly” from the floor until they were all dead. I'm glad Getsu gave an explanation as to why this map is the way it is, but it doesn't take away from the fact that it becomes aggravating to grind through.

[Demon of the Well]

dobu gabu maru said:

Ah see, it's interesting to know that since I was going to put my money on MAP31 or joe's map, but perhaps I should've expected that Scypek's quirky style would not resonate well with you. It's also funny how opinions work—I found myself enjoying Scypek's journey while you were thoroughly unimpressed, while on the other hand I found Getsu Fine's map to be the offensive nadir of the E1 set while Phil1984 thinks it's the best.

Ah, well, I haven't played joe-ilya's maps yet. I'd be a liar if I were to say I'm not feeling skeptical about their prospects, but I want to try to avoid mentally reaching a conclusion before I've even played them, since after all many mappers improve with time. Map 31's no prize, it's true, but it's pretty obviously somebody's first map (or perhaps somebody's first speedmap), which changes the angle I'm inclined to take on it a little. And also, whatever faults it may have, at least it feels like Doom, and like its author can and will benefit from more experience in the future....on the other hand, most of the stuff I dislike about Scypek2's mapping (which is most everything, I admit) isn't stuff he does simply because he doesn't know any better. On the contrary, I reckon his maps look, play, and feel exactly as he intends them to, for good or ill....

Map 10 -- Sligeneous - 102% Kills / 100% Secrets
Not terribly fond of this one, either, but it's a breath of fresh air after map 09 (again, at least it feels like I'm playing Doom), and it does have positive aspects alongside the questionable stuff. Again, I find myself agreeing with Memfis: the map's tight ammo/thing balance is absolutely its best attribute, perhaps not too surprising for those of us who have played a bit of the author's previous work. Whichever route you end up taking through the map, the ammo balance will always be very tight (especially if you don't get the early chainsaw), but not always in the same way--go one way and you might use a lot of melee with sparing use of buckshot, go another and you might be relying mostly on bullets, go yet another and you might be using cells to easily liquefy prime targets while having to leave less dangerous foes behind to haunt you later. It's not a hard map, but its tight balance does demand that its action be taken seriously, and it has a surprising degree of replayability for something this small. I can see a reasonable argument being made that its balance might be stretched too tightly in some places; I reckon there are certain routes a player could take that really aren't viable without said player locating at least some of the secrets, for instance. However, the map doesn't generally prevent you from leaving a trouble spot to return to it later, and if I'm honest a map featuring secrets that could be construed as quasi-mandatory to survive it on a first run is not something that offends me personally.

Most of the downside to this map elides from its aesthetics and layout. Sweet mother of lust, it's an ugly bastard, perhaps even uglier than Scypek's map, albeit in a different way.....a lot of it looks a helluva lot like wandering around in a labyrinthine motel washroom (complete with unwholesome botanical invasiveness), but in the end it suffers from the same lack of thematic identity as the previous map. Additionally, many of the texture transitions are downright awful, particularly the run of them you are subjected to when traveling the tall staircases from the northeast corner of the map down to the southeast corner (or vice verse), and while there are some shaded areas here and there, once again a generally neutral light level contributes to a lot of bland mismatched textures appearing even more bland/mismatched than they arguably actually are.

The main problem is the layout, though. While it's easy to appreciate how interconnected it is, it accomplishes this by being fairly heavy on discrete rooms, which necessitates the need for many points of transition between rooms, and therein lies the problem. For example, there's a pretty good range of vertical scale in this map, which was one of map 08's best attributes, so why is it such a problem here? I reckon it comes down to the fact that map 08 was fairly open and used only a few main areas, whereas 'Sligeneous' is comprised of a lot of separate areas crammed in together, which means that rooms tend to funnel towards specific entrance/exit points. In turn, the fact that the map generally slopes downwards quite markedly from west to east requires that many of these entrances/exits be managed by thin, tall lifts or exaggeratedly steep staircases or the like, or by simple doors/narrow hallways as one moves in a north/south direction. All of this may not necessarily be problematic in and of itself, but the upshot is that all of the choppy transitions are not at all conducive to fun combat. Once again, so many of the fights here devolve into threshold-camping exercises--maybe you're waiting outside of a door, maybe you're waiting at the bottom of a staircase, maybe you're waiting at the top of a lift, but most of the time you're either fighting a room through its entry point without entering said room, or you're just sweeping a basic hallway. Now, there's an interesting discussion to be had about whether the mapper or the player should be blamed for a situation where the player has no fun because s/he plays a scenario in a way that's not very exciting....I think it really depends on the situation. Many very interesting/nuanced/open fights can be camped/exploited by players that insist on finding a way to do so, and in that case I'd say it's the player's fault that little/no real fun is had. Some kinds of setup really leave players without much choice, though....the cramped nature of the surroundings and the awkward room transitions mean that fighting from the threshold is the only reasonable/natural way to handle a lot of the battles in this map, especially when resources are tight.

Anyway, it's good that there's replayability and that the tight balance saves the action from being perfunctory, but this is also a map with a very stilted/awkward flow, and the action suffers for it. Not being very familiar with the idiosyncrasies of the SLIGE program I can't really comment on how well Getsu Fune emulated it, or how much a successful emulation would be to blame for its issues, but the main point is that there are a lot of issues.