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dobu gabu maru

The DWmegawad Club plays: MAYhem2048

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MAP03
This map suffers the same problem that almost all first drafts of Obsidian's maps do (particularly when speed-mapped)... Ammo drought. Whilst there is just enough ammo to kill everything from a pistol start with a bit of infighting and perfect accuracy, you have to work your way around a lot of enemies before you have the guns for the job. Luckily, I'm playing continuously and came in pretty stocked from the prior two maps, so I was happy to SSG my way through most of the map with relative impunity. Played this way the map is pretty fun, although the exit is remarkably unintuitive. I did pistol start it when I tested the map last month though and it wasn't much good at all that time, so I can see where the complaints seen in the thread are coming from.

I think the map looks alright and that a few of the tricks are pretty nice, although sticky mud does feel like a pointless hazard to have in a map where you're already suffering due to under-supply.

EDIT: Heh, just re-read my initial feedback in the development thread and I was much more forgiving than I remembered. My point that the map is more fun when the player has plenty of ammo still stands, though :P

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Map03 - “Outpost Delta” by Obsidian
I had to kill an Archvile with the pistol which was not fun. A little more ammo and this map would have been all right. I found the secret which pretty much ensured safety for the majority of the map. The exit is stupid though. So in the end some nice effect, the gameplay could have been better and navigation too could have been improved. I can't say I hated the map though, just meh.

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MAP03: Outpost Delta by Obsidian
96% kills, 1/1 secret

A decent map that's held back a bit by gimmicks that don't quite work, IMO. The first one is the slow effect on the dirt - slow effects in Doom are dumb in general, it doesn't make much sense (really, dirt? Slow dirt?), and it doesn't really add anything to the map (it's only in a few corners, only one of which holds an item). Secondly, I'm not a big fan of the fake underwater bit. Some people like that sort of thing, I guess, but for me it is 1) way too unexpected for Doom and 2) why the heck does it hurt me? Can Doomguy not hold his breath for 5 seconds?

Thirdly, I don't like the silent insta-drop ambush wall by the shotgun. If you want to have a quick reveal, fine, but at least make it make a noise - I find it really dumb to purposely back up into the shotgun (so I can shoot the enemies) only to immediately be ripped into by enemies that silently appeared out of thin air.

Lastly, I can see the AV at the end being a bit of a BS trap (if you find the soulsphere secret, it's much easier since it gives you a closet to hide in). Also, unmarked exit.

As far as the ammo, it is pretty thin, I had read the complaints beforehand so I was extra careful (using pistol on zombies and lost souls, ignoring lost souls when possible, etc) and still felt the pinch.

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Map04 - "Rublev1" by Rublev

Deaths - 0
Kills - 100%
Secrets - 100%

This map has two things going for it. I enjoyed the music that was selected for this level and it is not a giant box like the first three levels.

...Other than that this map is terrible. There is nothing interesting about the layout or game-play of this map. Essentially you need to kill 5 monsters and you are given enough shells to do it and each monster is isolated and can be dealt with pretty easily. There is some rather annoying maneuvering you have to do to get up and over the ledges and a random out of the way linedef you have to walk over to be able to access a switch. Combine that with the level just looking dull with only a few textures used and little effort at creating an atmosphere with lightning and this is one map I certainly won't be returning too anytime soon.

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04 - Well, this is crap quite frankly. With only five monsters (all being extremely easy targets), awkward cramped areas, nonsensical triggers and MOCK2-like music choice the map was completely unable to entertain me in any way. I believe it wasn't necessary to accept this contribution: crap is crap, no need to play Doomworld Mega Project.

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04-

A boring, poorly designed map which feels like a joke level more than anything. I don't really understand why it was made or how it was put into a megawad.

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MAP04, "Rublev1" by Rublev. Played in prBoom+.

Fun idea, but needs a bigger map to work. A 2048x2048 space simply isn't enough for an exploration map. The monster density was slightly too low too and especially the revenants were easily sniped. I do like the design though, it really does feel like a mountain path. In the end, it's nice to have an easy, calm map between two much more intense ones. To paraphrase a favourite webcomic of mine, not everything needs to be a federal fucking issue. Sometimes you just want to kick back and relax.

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Map04 - "Rublev1" by Rublev

Well, Rublev must be really proud of this one; his name is all over it. Let's see... Ah, it's a tight network of monotextured rocky canyon. Okay. Hmm, some harmless Revanants and Archviles, such easy cover from their fire that they're useless... find a switch, find a place where you have to lower an unmarked wall... and now the final Archvile.

This guy is actually placed effectively! Put a gold star on the board. Once he's dispatched, find a way to climb the absurdly convoluted rockpile to the side and make your way to the Exit he was blocking. Oh, look a HOM at the exit. How cute.

Final verdict: If the Doomworld Megawad Club is in decline, I would imagine it's because crappy quality control like this is getting such a prominant spotlight. But that's just a guess, I wouldn't know.

(edited to correct spelling)

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Seele00TextOnly said:

[b]Final verdict: If the Doomworld Megawad Club is in decline, I would imagine it's because crappy quality control like this is getting such a prominant spotlight. But that's just a guess, I wouldn't know.


Haven't played this one yet, and alas, I got too busy to keep playtesting during May, but I can say that the initial batch of maps I playtested by Jimmy, cannonball, pcorf, Memfis, Chris Hansen, GRB, Dobu and later tourniquet, plus solid entries by Obsidian and Breezeep -- the latter too easy for my taste -- led me to anticipate a shockingly good 1-month megawad. I also looked at but DNFed the maps by Getsu Fune and Marcaek's brutal entry. And we have Demonologist and Eternal in the mix, so things will pick up soon, I figger.

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MAP04: A cute little exploration map. The platforming feels really… restricted so it’s not too enjoyable, but the map does provide a nice change of pace as opposed to all the other big monster romps in the mapset. I don't think it's "crap" as much as it's just an "intermission".

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SteveD: Yeah that was probably over harsh of me. I'm sure there's plenty of good stuff in this wad. Sometimes I set my snark to limiter override and look what happens. Though it had sounded like the D2TWID thread didn't get quite as many comments and participants as would be desired, part of why I decided to sign up. Should've started this a while ago.

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This thread seems to already be getting more posts than normal... it might die down, but threads usually go to around 10 pages these days, this one is already on 3 after only 3 maps.

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Seele00TextOnly said:

Though it had sounded like the D2TWID thread didn't get quite as many comments and participants as would be desired, part of why I decided to sign up. Should've started this a while ago.


I too was surprised by the relatively low turnout for D2TWiD, which I still have to finish, and will, because I was enjoying it quite a bit up through Map21. I suppose part of the reason for a relatively low turnout last month could be that D2TWiD has had its own thread for years. ;) I also thought it was cool that Alfonzo kept adding Developer's Notes last month, which I appreciate being that I'm a Map Geek. :D

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Magnusblitz said:

This thread seems to already be getting more posts than normal... it might die down, but threads usually go to around 10 pages these days, this one is already on 3 after only 3 maps.


Natch, quite a few DWMC regulars contributed to this one, which might help explain things. BTW, where were you this time around?????

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SteveD said:

I too was surprised by the relatively low turnout for D2TWiD


Maybe everyone already played it... anyway, its not even the 4th here yet but I'm intrigued by all these negative comments on map 4 so lets see what the fuss is about.

Map04 - “Rublev1” by Rublev

Hmmmmm. Well, yes that was a thing. Maybe its not fair to take this so seriously since the spirit of the wad seemed to be about taking the opportunity to try something different. Maybe the name of the map is some indication that its their first attempt at map making (or at least an early one). And maybe its also part of the spirit of the wad that it would end up being something of a mixed bag. And maybe the fact that the one month deadline doesn't allow much time for quality control should be taken into account... But yeah. I'm afraid I have to agree with Memfis on this one.

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MAP04: Well I like platforming and I liked the cavey architecture so I thought this was ok. Feels underdeveloped/unfinished, and the "press unmarked walls randomly" concept is not superb, but I don't hate it. That music, though?

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I'd already played the majority of the WADs that the Club has done before (although not D2TWiD, incidentally), and that never stopped me. Most folks aren't such an old hand at the ancient art of windbaggery, though, I suppose. Anyway, when the Club threads are really slow, I reckon it has more to do with the time of year and perhaps how many other ease-of-access community events are running at the time, rather than what WAD is actually chosen.

Map 04 -- Rublev1 - 100% Kills / No secrets
I......don't get it.

The path is too narrow and linear for this to work as an exploration map, and using an essentially unmarked pushwall as a mandatory progression device doesn't earn it a pass as a puzzler, either. Combat is incredibly bland, entirely because none of the monsters are physically capable of reaching you or preventing you from stepping around a bend to avoid their feeble attacks; they might as well not exist, frankly, and save the player the trouble of laboriously plinking them to death while they gyrate ineffectually on their little platforms. The only way left to interpret this is as an interlude as Dobu suggests, and this is a role for a map that I personally am very open to.....but I don't feel it's successful in this light, either. That the monsters do exist and are employed in a very illogical way prevents the map from leaning on the powers of silence, anticipation, or serenity for atmosphere, and the visuals themselves consisting of nothing but featureless beige-beige-beige crevices gives the imagination very little to go on. Shit, it doesn't even have a proper name to help in this regard.

Probably should have been left on the cutting room floor, yes. Perhaps what I've written comes off more negatively than I had intended--this map doesn't annoy or aggravate me ('that' map comes a bit later on in MAYhem2048 for me)--but I really don't see any reason for it to exist other than perhaps as a learning exercise on its author's hard drive.

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Heh, it's pretty surprising that you put my name alongside Eternal's, Steve. Thank you, I guess.

Map04 - “Rublev1” by Rublev
Look at this one. A map with perfect possibility to get stuck, with nonexistent gameplay, almost nonexistent boring visuals and silly progression, this feels like a vomit from mid-90s. Maps like these make me 100% sure that quality control is the thing of great importance, even if it would shatter TMD's sweet dreams of early release. Shit deserves to be bashed and thrown away, too much kindness and will to accept just everything will never make your project better (look at DMP and the swamp of shit that covers rare gems, yes).

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@Demonologist - I do have my problems with Eternal, as there were several maps in Epic 2 -- a megawad I've yet to finish -- which did not please me in the slightest, especially Map06, which is appropos since a major complaint so far in Mayhem is lack of ammo, and that map was a Poster Child for Ammo Stress. But there was also a lot I liked about Eternal's maps, especially the atmosphere, and the thrilling gameplay whenever he decided to go that route. I thus recognize that he is a significant mapper. I still have not played a Demonologist map, but I know what sort of brutality to expect, and so I'm inclined to respect your maps simply because I know my ass will be kicked and kicked quite severely. ;)

Map04 - Rublev1 by Rublev - Kills - 100, Items - 100, Secret - 100. Death Count - Zero

With the exception of Jimmy's map, every map since has had a squinchy, cramped feeling to it, with this and Map02 in a virtual dead heat for annoying tightness. Of course, the player's movement must be constrained to a certain degree, but going too far in that direction militates against the reality that Doom is a game of combat and movement, thus producing something that is not in any real sense Doom. In this map, the elements of combat and movement were both missing, so this is actually not a game of Doom. And we see yet another example of dreary platforming, which seems to be a sort of mass hysteria that has overrun the Doom community, and of which I am among the biggest haters. I feel like the only way to have my revenge for this nonsense is to design a map with completely over-the-top platforming, although I worry that platforming fans will actually enjoy it . . . ;D

So, to point out some positives, at least the rock walls had nice curvy shapes to them. I actually liked the music track, though it signals the strong possibility that this is a joke map. Nyuk-nyuk.

The platforming was very annoying, with difficult angles to hit for keyboarders. It wasn't quite bad enough for me to say, "Fuck this!" and resort to idclip, but it came damned close.

I don't hate the map, but for me it's a big "meh."

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Demon of the Well said:

Anyway, when the Club threads are really slow, I reckon it has more to do with the time of year and perhaps how many other ease-of-access community events are running at the time, rather than what WAD is actually chosen.


I'd hypothesize that a large part is how soon we play the wad compared to its release. We're striking while the iron is hot on MAYhem2048 while D2TWID was championed for a month or two and only played this June (giving potential participants a chance to play it already). I think the factor you mentioned is more important when discussing older mapsets, but for new releases it seems people make time to join in (at least at the start... it would be interesting to see a general rate of decay for posters as the mapsets go on).

Side note: I'm curious what "annoying or aggrivating" map you're speaking of... I have two guesses but I guess I'll find out soon enough. I'm also curious to see if Demonologist will be enthused about any map this month.

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SteveD said:

BTW, where were you this time around?????


May was uncommonly busy for me... I played around with a few concepts but nothing quite hit for me to the point I really gathered enthusiasm to push something out. That, and I still have Switcheroom maps to work on...

MAP04: Rublev1 by Rublev
80% kills, no secrets

Yeah, I'll go ahead and say that this map is pretty close to shit. Really tiny cramped corridors, nonsensical progression (I think the unmarked door by the tree actually does have a texture offset, but the rock texture used makes it nearly impossible to ascertain this), poorly placed monsters, and ridiculously jaggy jumping. I got further frustrated when I overlooked the second box of shells hidden in the small ravine and was forced to run past the last AV after trying to punch/pistol it to death.

As others have said, it's not a total loss... the aesthetic is actually somewhat nice with the curves and nice texture selection (though somewhat monotone). In that respect, feels almost like an unfinished start to a map, or an experimentation. Which is probably where it should've stayed... I mean, hell, the author couldn't even bother to come up with a real name for it.

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MAP04

Cool map with 'ID' style of progression (Go to a cave and reveal a switch somewhere else)
The music actually fits because it's a nature map and stuff. Too bad it's short, this map has the peace just like jimmy's 'Jungle Spirits'.
5/5

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I can't speak for anyone else but I was going to join in the club last month until D2TWID was revealed to be the choice. While I can easily talk about what makes a wad fun for me to play, I'm not really up to discussing how well a wad emulates another person's mapstyle.

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Maybe for a megawad that either improves dramatically or is just consistently crap, yes.

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Obsidian said:

I love joe-ilya logic.

I prefer peaceful exploration maps more then smartass maps, you even said it's how your maps are.
At least MAP04 isn't a trap on every step like yours.

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Oh, for what it's worth, I didn't bother with last month's DWMC for exactly the same reason I didn't contribute to D2TWID - because the project didn't interest me at all. Having since given it a go, I can see my initial opinion was correct, in that I found the megaWAD generally quite unexciting and got bored of it surprisingly early in, having to force myself through the rest of it a map or two at a time.

MAP04
Which is a pretty neat segue into this map, as it is interesting, but still crap. Not completely irredeemable, mind, as I think the use of space and the fact that it in no way looks like it takes place in a square is great, plus I think it looks pretty good as a rocky area. Music isn't bad, but I'd rather have something like an atmospheric, wind-through-trees kind of thing for a map this quiet... Although really I'd rather have some game play. This is the second time I've gone through this map and taken no damage on UV. It's also still (potentially) incredibly frustrating to get past a few of the rocky bits you have to SR40 over if you get hung up on anything (as happened to me a few times on that little pile on the way to the exit). Chuck in the HOMs at the exit and the slime trail on the way to the first Archie and this is not a good map. I think I'd enjoy it more if it was populated with imps, zombies, maybe a Demon or two, plus a few Lost Souls near the end (maybe one or two bigger enemies, but there's not really the space). The worst of the maps so far, IMO (although I know for a fact there's ones I like less later).

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Wordy said:

04-

A boring, poorly designed map which feels like a joke level more than anything. I don't really understand why it was made or how it was put into a megawad.


Because certain folk were quite insistent of not having map in front 32.

This may be fixed for idgames

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Map05 - "Mayhem Town” by Walter Confalonieri

In the start room there's a nice broken through boarded up window and I can already tell we're on the upswing in quality, at least visually. Whoa what is this, 107 monsters and 5 secrets? Now I'm excited :3

Find a Chainsaw and mow down some chatty Zombies with it. We're in a graveyard and someone's risen or been exhumed. Navigate some buildings and lower tier monsters... darn I am just happy to be playing a decent map again. Get the Yellow Skull, and getting a lot of mileage out of this Chainsaw. Find a secret Backpack and... I keep running along the ledge here and get myself into trouble.

Was able to run along the ledge until I got myself trapped behind Red Skull bars without the Red Skull yet, so might want to add a blockline to prevent that or something. Going back the intented route, get an SSG and here lies Jim Lynn. This town is great, even has a water fountain for a Devil holding a human skull. In my reload though I realize I forgot the Backpack, so going back to get that and try running along the ledge again... this time I trigger something that lowers a wall preventing being trapped behind the Red Bars like last time. Huh. Wonder why that worked this time.

Continue exploring the intricate stuff, find a secret Soulsphere, open the doors to the Blue Skull room and there's some encounter that happens with more small fry but I think right about now the map could really be kicking up the difficulty in terms of the encounter. Would rather it have been higher tier monsters here, I'm loaded to the gills and not just from Secrets.

Get the Red Skull immediately afterward the Blue one and... oh heck I'll open the Blue Doors why not. Doesn't seem I need to but what the hey. That sure is some odd diagonal scrolling artwork. Open a secret to get some... health bonuses? Anyway go through a Red Door and now we get a stream in of monsters that has more teeth to it. Kill an Archvile and get the last secret, a Berserk.

Well this map was pretty cool! Think it could've been tougher on UV but enjoyed the combat anyway, and the layout and texturing was enjoyable. Great job and a real pick-me-up after the previous map.

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