Original Version of Shub-Niggurath's Pit

[Marnetmar]

[Ledillman]

Reminds me A LOT of Doom 2 MAP30, heh. This seems way harder than the released Shub-Niggurath's Pit

[Nomad]

As confusing as the release version was (took a while to understand that the stupid little spike ball is where you teleport to), I'd have to say I prefer it over this. Seems very "last gen" comparatively.

[Obsidian]

Doesn't seem like much of a boss battle. I'm glad they scrapped it.

[40oz]

Definitely pretty sloppy looking. Once you kill the monsters theres literally just a giant harmless boss that you telefrag into, which puts the momentum of the game to a halt. I don't remember what the actual final level was like but there had to be something that kept the gameplay flowing.

[Fellowzdoomer]

I dunno how the original is. Never fgot to finish Quake.

[SYS]

Glad they scrapped that.

[neubejiita]

I wish I could get a copy of this map. But it would not be hard to make a replica in Jackhammer. I just wish I knew how to put Shub into a map.

[Varis Alpha]

didn't someone post this video here sometime ago?

[Avoozl]

Doomhuntress said:

didn't someone post this video here sometime ago?

Maybe on that thread I created a while back titled "Things about Quake you just found out".

[Marnetmar]

Doomhuntress said:

didn't someone post this video here sometime ago?

It could have been me, actually now that I think about it. I've known about this map for a while but I only recently was reminded of its existence.

[Jello]

neubejiita said:

I wish I could get a copy of this map. But it would not be hard to make a replica in Jackhammer. I just wish I knew how to put Shub into a map.

I'm not terribly familiar with Jackhammer, just played around and made a few rooms, however I just loaded it up and checked under the entity creation tool, there's an entity called monster_oldone. That should be Shub-Niggurath. At least that's what the entity name was in Worldcraft/Hammer Editor so I can't see why Jackhammer would be any different.

[purist]

I've seen this video before. It looks a really ugly level - with the exception of that cool ramp. Also the fact the boss is there seems incidental.

[negke]

It looks like a test map more than anything. I doubt it was intended as an actual "final" level and only then scrapped at some point.

neubejiita said:

I wish I could get a copy of this map.

It has been ported for SDA. I think they broke it, though.

[Patrol1985]

40oz said:

Definitely pretty sloppy looking. Once you kill the monsters theres literally just a giant harmless boss that you telefrag into, which puts the momentum of the game to a halt. I don't remember what the actual final level was like but there had to be something that kept the gameplay flowing.

The funny thing is the final level also fits your description PERFECTLY :D I think those who remember it can confirm.

[Jimmy]

I kinda like it. Seems very straight and to the point like Doom 2 MAP30, I dig the hectic arena-style combat (though it would be good to have that persist with teleporting monsters), and the boss's tentacles being visible right when you enter is honestly quite fear-inspiring. The whole monster being revealed at some point would've been nice, though.

[Koko Ricky]

Why is it so hard for id to make good boss maps?

[dannebubinga]

The first version of quake that I owned had this as a final level. The dope-fish easter egg is located under the bridge that selects normal difficulty in this version.

[Patrol1985]

dannebubinga said:

The first version of quake that I owned had this as a final level. The dope-fish easter egg is located under the bridge that selects normal difficulty in this version.

How did you obtain such a version? Certainly it wasn't distributed officially by id?

[Clonehunter]

This level honestly kinda looks like Shit. I can see some fun with a big monster romp, but eugh. I don't think you can fault them for at least trying to make something more interesting than just an arena fight with a big monster. The first boss of Quake, while stupidly easy, was also a decent attempt.

[dannebubinga]

Patrol1985 said:

How did you obtain such a version? Certainly it wasn't distributed officially by id?

My dad bought pirated games for me from a guy at his work back in the 90's. I think I got this version of quake in 96/97.

[Phml]

GoatLord said:

Why is it so hard for id to make good boss maps?

Can you think of any good examples? Not being confrontational, just seems like a genuinely interesting topic.

To me FPS bosses are OK at best, haven't really seen anything worth remembering. There's certainly a wow factor to particularly huge bosses, but then there's only so many giants with glowing points you can fight before it all blurs together.

[plums]

Phml said:

Can you think of any good examples? Not being confrontational, just seems like a genuinely interesting topic.

Funny, I was actually just thinking about this. FPS boss battles are by and large just not that great. I think the best ones are where you have to fight a horde of enemies in addition to a special extra-tough badguy; anything where you just fight the one is basically just "unload all the powerups you've been hording the whole game".

If Shub-Niggurath in that video actually did something and you had to shoot it while dealing with the other enemies, that would've been OK maybe.

Hexen 2's expansion had a not-terrible boss gameplay-wise, though graphically it was a cop-out.

[dannebubinga]

I found what I was talking about :

It's funny how I managed to get a pirated beta back in 97. Oh well. Good times

[Clonehunter]

I remember Chasm: The Rift having some interesting boss encounter concepts. Ultimately they were all somewhat broken.

For example:

The First Boss could only be killed by sucking it through a fan. This boss fight was easily the best one in the game. Your guns did nothing too it, and you had some switches to activate. After that you have to get the boss's attention, which wasn't hard, and then you had to jump into the sucking power of a massive turbine. Basically suicidal, but if you hugged the wall enough you could slip into an alcove. The boss would of course follow you and after a moments struggle, would be chopped up by the fan. This was actually kinda cool.

The second Boss was a Sphynx. After the front half breaks away from the back half (lol?) you have to shoot the stationary back half too kill the moving front half. I think the idea was for an arena fight where you had to dodge attacks while directing fire elsewhere. However, the arena was far too small for this and the homing projectiles made it all but impossible to win fairly. Basically, you had to jam yourself into a corner it couldn't see you in, and occasionally peek from cover to shoot the stationary butt. This level was even more annoying under the fact that once it was dead, you had to rush into a teleporter before the floor turned into lava. More difficult in that there were enemies waiting to intercept you.

The third boss was the most interesting concept wise, but also the most broken. Basically, activate some switches in another small arena to kill it with light. The thing is, the light is permeant, and once the boss touches light it is immobilized. It just sits there and dies basically while you watch. After several tough mook encounters, the boss takes roughly ten seconds to deal with.

The fourth boss is basically Shub Niggurath, but you shoot at it in order to open a mouth, which you jump inside. Once inside, you shoot the heart in front of you and the game is over. As long as don't walk directly into the boss or got surprised by mooks, the final boss is the easiest enemy to deal with.

*shrugs*

Bosses are tough for fun.

[ASD]

Doom E1- and E2 bosses are good enough for an FPS game. Heretic E3's boss fight looked epic but the boss himself was a cheap wuss.

[printz]

I liked D'sparil Keep in skill 5 especially because it was "cheap" (as you call it) and had abilities specially designed to counter player's strengths:
- So what if the player runs at 60mph? The monster can teleport!
- So what if the player hears stereo sound? The boss makes omnidirectional sounds; you can't tell where he went!
- So what if it's easy to focus all fire into a single target? The boss can spawn a horde of tough enemies in no time! No problemo!
- So what if it can infight other disciples? Again no problem! In the meantime he will just spawn more disciples who'll be after you!

All in all you can still win it fairly if you can avoid all the attacks and fire enough potshots at D'sparil. No seriously cheap tactics like unavoidable fire. I wish all bosses would cut straight to the point and seek to be comparable to the player, not some dumb giants who fire shots in predefined directions.

[Koko Ricky]

Maybe boss battles in general are just kinda lackluster. A few that come to mind:

Old school Sonic games: In most cases, Robotnik has an easily avoided obstacle(s) he tosses around while you pop him eight times.

Old school Mario games: You either run past Koopa and axe the bridge, or just bop him/his kids in one of a handful of variations.

Most SHMUPs: Dodge a giant ship's array of attacks and shoot the shit out of it.

Such encounters can be fun, but never compare to the journey preceding it. Perhaps more the fault of the nature of games than the developers.

[neubejiita]

Very nice looking map but quite simple: http://i.imgur.com/2097Yfi.jpg. This looks like a beginner mappers effort. Maybe it is in a way.

[Waffenak]

Fascinating, but I still prefer the map in the launch game