[RELEASE] Plutonia 1024

[jmickle66666666]

I'm really excited about this project, but considering how rushed this release is looking i'm gonna give it another week at least before I play to make sure it gets the polish/attention it deserves. The feedback cycle has been good so far, it'd be a shame to have a bad release because of a rushed deadline.

[joe-ilya]

Why is the blood splat at MAP01 is lowered? That's the dumbest thing in texturing.
And the berserk secret was already given a clue anyways, why make it this obvious? And the invulnerability secret is untaggable.

[NuMetalManiak]

probably because the blood flat and the water flat don't look right on the same floor height level.

[joe-ilya]

Getsu Fune said:

probably because the blood flat and the water flat don't look right on the same floor height level.

Jenesis did the same in map01.

[CorSair]

Maps 01-12 are done in beta 1.
Maps 13-15, 17, 31, and 32 are done in beta 2.
Maps 16, 18 and beyond are done in beta 4.
Found in the usual place, as always. And let me know if you want me to try harder, some got DNF'd due to losing interest or just time constraints.

Also, I think I broke Phml's map 21, Todofina. :V
I think one of my shots somehow got through the barricade and hit the switch, causing walls lower prematurely...

[40oz]

Okay, in preparation for final release, I decided instead of hastily going through and injecting quick fixes as theyre mentioned here, I put aside some time to actually play the entire thing looking for the errors mentioned and reproducing them and successfully maxing every map. In the future I really should write up some sort of play testing checklist as a guide, I don't have much experience play testing and it would have helped to know what to look for before I went ahead and OKd a bunch of stuff. Some of the errors reported are kinda negligible and are hurting the creativity and ego of the mapper sometimes (sorry Joe!!) more than theyre really fixing anything majorly important.

in going through one more time I was able to successfully recreate a number of problems listed here and now I think I have a clearer understanding on how to go about fixing them without any counter effects. I also identified a number of other after effects of bugs that surfaced after ironing them out that weren't reported here yet.

anyway, I'm going to post a change log here before going ahead and rolling out a final release, and leave any cosmetic errors or questionable design choices "as intended by the author." At the very least the game play was fairly reviewed, the difficulty settings were implemented, and each map is able to be successfully UV-maxed.

two things I gotta ask before I do that:

1. anyone found the secret in MAP08: Midnight? I couldn't figure out how to get that megasphere both by playing the map and looking at it in an editor. Its not impossible to reach is it?

2. Joe, I'm sorry I made changes to your maps. I was responding to play tester feedback and I must have gotten carried away. As a compromise, I'll let you select two changes I made to each of your maps (two per map, four changes in total) and I'll reverse them to how they were. Please answer before tomorrow! :)

[Keyboard_Doomer]

40oz said:

1. anyone found the secret in MAP08: Midnight? I couldn't figure out how to get that megasphere both by playing the map and looking at it in an editor. Its not impossible to reach is it?

That secret is supposed to be reached with an Arch-vile jump. Needs to be very precise, I never got it :\

EDIT: Also, I was able to succesfully UV-max all maps (except this secret and the blue armor secret in map01 I reported) in my testing from Friday to Saturday. The bugs I mentioned in my last post only showed up today.

[Z0k]

hey 40oz i hope this dont mind you but i move some unit a wall near of the blue key lift because that wall looked like if i set a texture there with vertices, so this its just a small minor update that change that and i think im done with the map without more changes needed.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/ym1skdu6kkab94k/pl1024-z0k.zip

[NoneeLlama]

40oz said:

1. anyone found the secret in MAP08: Midnight? I couldn't figure out how to get that megasphere both by playing the map and looking at it in an editor. Its not impossible to reach is it?

It requers an arch-vile jump to get to it.

Also, I noticed that linedefs 150-154 should have Impassable tags on them, since - again, with an arch-vile blast - the player could get inside the fireplace at the northwest corner.

[EffinghamHuffnagel]

I went through the rest of the levels. All played great. Nothing obvious jumped out at me except on MAP23, the possibility of an AV jumping you through the eastern windows. Unfortunately, there's nothing to be done about that. But it reminded me that a few years ago on the ZDoom forums I suggested a couple of new linedef types and a new linedef tag - Player Block; to go along with Impassable and Monster Block. This would be the perfect situation for that.

It's interesting playing maps in the beta that I've played a lot of times before and finding little changes; different mechanics, additional monsters. It's like seeing an old friend driving a new car. Oh, I do need to say something about a map I hadn't played before, MAP26 - Jesus H. Tap-Dancing Christ! I couldn't get 10 seconds on UV without dying. I finally re-started on ITYTD and I still had moments. It's a beautiful map. The goal is obvious. The mechanics are simple. I just have no idea how to legally survive this on UV. Should have been called "Gordion Knot" or "Kobayashi Maru". Wow.

[CorSair]

EffinghamHuffnagel said:

Should have been called "Gordion Knot" or "Kobayashi Maru". Wow.

Had to google those words, guess those would've made it more descriptive. I'll keep those names in my mind if I decide to do similar dickish map in future. :P

[40oz]

Here's the changelog.

If I don't hear from joe-ilya soon I'll just go back and adjust the things he specifically mentioned and we'll wrap this bad boy up.

========BETA 5===============
Added M_DOOM graphic

MAP05:
Added a sound travel sector to the revenant as a "Plan B" should the scrolling floor not work.
Added some trap activation lines in front of the yellow key as a "Plan B" should the lines in front of the blue key be glided past or avoided or whatever
Adjusted start/exit pads.

MAP07:

Fixed unintended ceiling flat mismatch used near the exit

MAP08:

Made lines 150-154 impassable

MAP09:

Added armor bonuses for 100% items
Bloated the size of the megaarmor secret sector a little so it's less likely to be accidentally stepped over.

MAP11:

Added armor bonuses for 100% items

MAP13:

Added health bonuses for 100% Items

MAP15:

Fixed Chaingunner trap (every time i played it I killed the first 'layer' before getting the super shotgun, which was why that error was overlooked. Thanks Keyboard_Doomer!

MAP22:

Fixed the invulnerability secret by changing the linedef action that raises it up from 20 (S1 Floor Raise to next higher floor (changes texture)) to 69 (SR Floor Raise to next higher floor(fast))
Took away one of the hints I added for the berserk secret (sorry I gave it away earlier, joe!).

MAP23:

Made ALL blood in the map damaging.

MAP26:

Added some armor bonuses so that 100% Items is possible
Made start room a secret area so 100% secrets is possible

MAP31:

Added a health bonus so that 100% Items is possible
Made start room a secret area so 100% secrets is possible

MAP32:

Changed the monster block lines I added so that the archviles in the start area can move but not enough to escape from underneath the crushers.

[40oz]

Plutonia 1024: The Plutinya Experiment has been released!!

Check the OP!

As always, all you guys did a tremendous job! I had a great time working with all of you! I learned a lot from this experience and I feel I have a better understanding of some of the great things you guys can make! I look forward to seeing more maps from you guys in the future, and hope to work with you guys again. I'd like to take this opportunity to extend an invitation your way to join in my next community project, TNT 1024!! (just kidding)

Now that this is finally released, I'm gonna have to ask that everyone who participated please be cool and modest when Plutonia 1024 gets unexpected press attention from gaming news sites, and take your boxing gloves off for the upcoming flame wars following the release in the upcoming "pl1024 in depth review thread" :P

Thanks everyone for your help!

[Surreily]

Thanks for being a great project lead. I think everyone did a fantastic job, and I certainly had fun making my two maps. Congrats on the release!

[Breezeep]

Congrats on the release, 40oz! it was fun working with you guys on this!

also, did you save the original OP post before the release?

EDIT 2: there's no music in map01.

[Gothic]

Yes, there is music, it's from Doom 2 map18.

[Mechadon]

Congratulation on the release guys! I really wish I had the time to contribute something, but oh well :P

I played through one of the betas posted a while back. The general quality and difficulty progression had some ups and downs, but that's usually typical of community efforts I suppose. I enjoyed what I did get a chance to play though!

[Obsidian]

Considering we missed the deadline by 2 days anyway, can we please, please, please add 2 more maps to round out the mapset? I can PM my unfinished Icon to Marcaek and I believe it was EffinghamHuffnagel who said there were at least 9 other unused maps to use. :/

[Captain Toenail]

What he said ^

Otherwise, Wooo! Yeah! Well done everyone. :)

[joe-ilya]

Why does MAP04 still has those demons in the pit?

EDIT:Please change the railings at the blood pool on MAP01 to STEPTOP, the railings look bugged like this, you can fully see them even when they're halfway under ground, and the secret teleport in the pool looks wierd.

[Philnemba]

Great 1024 mapset ya'll made...just a shame I wasn't aware about this community project early this summer cause I would have try to contribute :(

[Rook]

Congratulations on this release 40oz! And well done to everyone who contributed, especially Surreily for his great work on our map. Really looking forward to hearing what people think about the maps.

[EffinghamHuffnagel]

Obsidian said:

Considering we missed the deadline by 2 days anyway, can we please, please, please add 2 more maps to round out the mapset? I can PM my unfinished Icon to Marcaek and I believe it was EffinghamHuffnagel who said there were at least 9 other unused maps to use. :/

Captain Toenail said:

What he said ^

Since I helped elevate this topic, I think I need to address it.

I've always had a gift for seeing both sides of an issue. I understand the need to finish the megawad. I'm also in that camp. I made a flip comment about it (with tongue firmly planted in cheek) and it's gaining some traction. As it stands, pl1024 does feel incomplete. And complete replacement mapsets don't come along every day. I also understand 40oz's point of view. He set out to put together a Plutonia 1024-style mapset. He did that. A complete replacement was not his goal. If there had only been twelve maps in the wad no one would be asking for twenty more maps to "finish" it. He has not responded to people's posts, nor is he required to. His work, except for squashing the last-minute bugs which always show up, is done.

A Community Project is like being on a football team, or acting in a play. One person is in charge and everyone agrees to follow that person's direction. If you disagree with that person, you can discuss and argue your point, but if he says "no", that's final. You do what he says, not what you want. Damon Wayans was once in the cast of Saturday Night Live. One night, on live TV, he changed a police officer character he was playing and made him flaming gay. He was fired the next day. There is a Community Standard involved here. Most human beings have the need to belong. We all choose to belong to this community called Doomworld and so we abide by its written and unwritten rules. Could someone add two maps to pl1024 and re-release it? Of course. There's nothing to prevent it. But it would be an affront to The Community, writ large. The person couldn't be fired, but could be banned or at the very least no longer trusted. No one would want to work with that person again. You don't edit somebody else's work without their permission. Having said that, I'll admit I've done that. In another thread I mentioned I added the "cut" level from Alien Vendetta back in before I played it. I've edited about half the levels of Memento Mori to fix things I saw as errors. I assume most people have done something similar. It's also a great way to learn map editing. But I would never release them anywhere. That would violate community ethics. So, if 40oz chooses not to allow additional maps to pl1024, that's his call. I originally thought that 40oz had made the last two maps on his own and was going to add them to the final wad without telling anyone, as a surprise. I guess I was wrong. It's done. It is what it is.

However, if someone were to read the accompanying pl1024 text file, it says "Authors MAY use the contents of this file as a base for modification or reuse." 40oz gave permission. Therefore, someone could add the last two maps on their own and re-release this under a different name, perhaps pl1024ex, for extended version, giving all credit to the original. But that would be kind of a slap in the face to 40oz and negate his efforts. It's also rude. The better solution would be for someone to release a separate standalone two-level Plutonia 1024-style mapset containing MAP29 and MAP30 with a short DEHACKED for map names and music re-names and CWILVxx graphics in a similar style, also called pl1024ex, but not in this thread. That way, the original gets its due and a person could put both in a pk3 file if they wanted to play a full megawad. It would be no different than creating a Heretic E6M4-M9 mapset and calling it "Fate's Path". You haven't touched the original, just added on to it. That should satisfy all sensibilities, I think. That person could look through the unused maps and get permissions from the authors to create this add-on or just do it on their own with their own maps.

Or maybe a community project competition to create the last two maps. ;)

[40oz]

EffinghamHuffnagel said:

However, if someone were to read the accompanying pl1024 text file, it says "Authors MAY use the contents of this file as a base for modification or reuse." 40oz gave permission. Therefore, someone could add the last two maps on their own and re-release this under a different name, perhaps pl1024ex, for extended version, giving all credit to the original.

Actually, I include that on purpose as I don't really feel the inclination to use a project that was spawned literally out of a limitless pool of volunteers as work that is restrained to the rights of the people who happened to be involved at the time of its creation. In theory, I suppose you or anyone else is welcome to do that if the interest is there, and I wouldn't be offended. I just wanted to work on it and have a completed product within the timeframe that I chose. These community projects can extend long after their anticipated completion time and I didn't want to feel tied to it forever, which is why I was so stubborn about allocating the work that was to be done within scheduled time frames.

[Marcaek]

EffinghamHuffnagel said:

He did that. A complete replacement was not his goal. If there had only been twelve maps in the wad no one would be asking for twenty more maps to "finish" it. He has not responded to people's posts, nor is he required to. His work, except for squashing the last-minute bugs which always show up, is done.

A complete repalcement may not have been his goal, but leaving 2 maps just so he can make an arbitrary deadline despite offers to complete the maplist is basically ignoring the potential of the project. You're right about not being required to answer, but considering you talking about what would be "rude" later on, I'd say flatout ignoring the opinions of several contributors and testers is rude.

A Community Project is like being on a football team, or acting in a play. One person is in charge and everyone agrees to follow that person's direction. If you disagree with that person, you can discuss and argue your point, but if he says "no", that's final.

Refusing to acknowledge dissatisfaction with a poor decision does not validate a poor decision. The wad is completable but the desire to complete(and further refine) it is deliberately being ignored for no logical reason.

You do what he says, not what you want. Damon Wayans was once in the cast of Saturday Night Live. One night, on live TV, he changed a police officer character he was playing and made him flaming gay. He was fired the next day.

Nobody has implied a desire to change something without anyone's wishes or without informing them first so this comparison is needless.

There is a Community Standard involved here. Most human beings have the need to belong. We all choose to belong to this community called Doomworld and so we abide by its written and unwritten rules. Could someone add two maps to pl1024 and re-release it? Of course. There's nothing to prevent it. But it would be an affront to The Community, writ large.

The permission is there to do so, I see potentially finishing and further cooperation on refining the set as improving the potential that's not being realized in what stands as a project that stopped before it really got the chance to cross the finish line. Asking people to improve their work is a mark of respect because it means you see enough potential in it that it would be worth putting the time in to realize said potential.

However, if someone were to read the accompanying pl1024 text file, it says "Authors MAY use the contents of this file as a base for modification or reuse." 40oz gave permission. Therefore, someone could add the last two maps on their own and re-release this under a different name, perhaps pl1024ex, for extended version, giving all credit to the original.

Seriously considering that with the blessing of the contributors. I went through the wad and so far I think only about a third of it is as good as it could be. I know of at least one contributor who's not satisfied with his gameplay but didn't fix it because of the arbitrary cutoff for non-critical updates. That's stunting potential there.

But that would be kind of a slap in the face to 40oz and negate his efforts. It's also rude.

Don't see how. He gave permission to use it as a base and if someone makes it better then he still gets props for starting off a good thing.

Also a community project for 2 maps would be a little silly because you'd have a lot of people being rejected considering how much interest was generated here. I get you're making a joke but I felt like emphasising this anyway, we do have some unfinished candidates that don't deserve to be excluded for no logical reason.

[40oz]

Sorry if you got an ignorant vibe from me. I didn't address it earlier because that question was brought up before, and I was already wrapping it up. Including the additional maps would involve me editing the text file, the dehacked patch, generating new CWILVxx graphics, remaking the credit pic, etc. Doing that too hastily would have opened up a whole new can of worms (where the worms in this analogy are bugs and glitches) and I could tell my wife was getting sick of me being front of the computer every day that week compiling and recompiling the thing over and over. The pressure to finish kinda rose on me, and the idea of this wad is rather mundane, honestly. (Not the maps, just the premise of the project itself isn't very original) and I didn't want to be tied to it for another couple weeks

Anyway, you might have missed it because I stated somewhere in the deep of twenty some pages, but I had no intention to make this a full 32 level replacement right from the beginning. Just a map pack of any number of maps. The idea was if there's less than 32 maps, then whatever. If there's exactly 32, great, if there's over 32, then the number of maps would have been split in half and put in two separate wad files. So if we had 33 maps, then the zip file would contain pl1024-1.wad with 16 maps, AND pl1024-2.wad with 15.

naturally, having somewhere between 29 and 35 maps was the "awkward range" of maps to have. We had about 23 or so at one point but it felt more dickish of me to axe the maps that didn't make the cut in time even after many updates than to work with those people the best I could to see their work admitted, which totaled out to an even 30. We just got unlucky I guess. I have other project ideas that have better implementation of the megawad structure that I may announce in time. But for this project, that wasn't part of the plan, and if you're still interested in rolling out some maps, I have bigger and better ideas you might like to be a part of, so keep an eye out!

Also, if you really want to make the remaining maps, be my guest! Upload them,(on this thread even, I'll link to them in the OP if you'd like) preferably tested for bugs and with skill levels implemented and stuff. If you upload to idgames feel free to link to the original project in your description in the text file. I wouldn't be bothered by it one bit.

I had the best intentions, honestly. I hope I didn't offend you ir anything. I made it an unofficial goal to keep everyone as calm and composed and happy as possible despite the rigid requirements to get in the pack, and I like to think everything went really well for the most part.

[EffinghamHuffnagel]

Marcaek said:

Refusing to acknowledge dissatisfaction with a poor decision does not validate a poor decision. The wad is completable but the desire to complete(and further refine) it is deliberately being ignored for no logical reason.

I agree. I did not think it was the best decision. But I'm mindful that as project leader, it was his decision. I didn't have to agree with it, or even like it. I just had to respect it.

I'd say flatout ignoring the opinions of several contributors and testers is rude.

Asking people to improve their work is a mark of respect because it means you see enough potential in it that it would be worth putting the time in to realize said potential.

I went through the wad and so far I think only about a third of it is as good as it could be.

As good as you think it could be. So you're telling 2/3 of the mappers that they could do better? What if they're happy with their map? Now who's being rude?

Seriously considering that with the blessing of the contributors.

Since 40oz gave permission to re-use, and has stated he wouldn't be offended if someone else continued the project "if the interest is there", then go for it. There's nine unused maps in the thread in various states of completion, one of which is an Icon map. The unfinished Icon map Obsidian mentioned makes ten. You could use them all. A mega-plus wad. Two to finish the mapset and the rest as a secret sub-episode with its own Icon map. Kind of like adding "No Rest For The Living" to Doom2 (which I actually did; plays nicely).

[Obsidian]

40oz said:

Including the additional maps would involve me editing the text file, the dehacked patch, generating new CWILVxx graphics, remaking the credit pic, etc.

You know, I could do pretty much all this for you. If you like I could compile the last 2 maps and upload to Incoming to save you the trouble. I've had a decent bit 'o practice. :P

[40oz]

That's true, youve done a great job with the abyssal speed mapping sessions. In the future I should probably appoint someone to do it so I don't screw it up myself :P

[Obsidian]

Sooo...is that a yes? :)