Quakecon 2014 discussion

[Patrol1985]

I know DOOM isn't featured this year, but I've always been a fan of Quakecon anyway (being a Quake player and all).

So is anyone here watching it? Do you have some favourite players? Do you predict any surprises?

Here is the main tournament bracket:

http://challonge.com/qc14_duel_masters

It's single elimination this year. I don't know why.

The event is being broadcast here:

http://www.twitch.tv/QuakeCon

Feel free to discuss.

[Clonehunter]

Never payed attention to the tourney stuff, but sometimes the speeches and whatever reveals or whatever can be interesting.

[Patrol1985]

Sadly, no Carmack this year. He wanted to attend up until the whole Zenimax lawsuit situation. I don't blame him for the decision.

[Technician]

Where's Quake 1?

[Quasar]

Patrol1985 said:

Sadly, no Carmack this year. He wanted to attend up until the whole Zenimax lawsuit situation. I don't blame him for the decision.

I think he still wanted to even despite that, and they won't have him. So in other words, blame Bethesda/ZeniMax if anybody has to get the blame ;)

[hardcore_gamer]

Patrol1985 said:

I know DOOM isn't featured this year

What? Wasn't there some news feature that said Doom would be showed behind closed doors even if the information shown would not be released to the public?

Because, if this ends up being ANOTHER Quakecon without any Doom information then I am going to be very, very pissed.

[Patrol1985]

I meant "Doom tournament" (like the one last year). Some info about the new Doom is going to be revealed, as promised.

There was an upset by the way - Tox defeated Rapha (the defending champion) by quite a large margin ;)

[kristus]

I'm always watching the tournaments. As much as I can. Amazing games so far. Totally threw me off how some of them turned out, Tox vs Rapha in particular. Tox is looking incredible right now. Currently waiting for Tox vs Dahang to start and I hope to see Tox make it past Dahang, would be awesome with Cypher vs Tox in the finals. They both look to be amazing for this tournament. The way Cypher dealt with Evil, made me feel sorry for Evil. It was brutal.

[Clonehunter]

I take it back. This tourney shit is fun too watch. Kinda retarded, but fun to watch.

[Reisal]

Have they not broadcasted the Doom 4 content yet?

[Technician]

Glaice said:

Have they not broadcasted the Doom 4 content yet?

Not tonight. They'll probably save it as a finally.

[Epyo]

The new Doom is definitely getting hyped right now at Quakecon. But, they're trying to keep the footage secret, only for attendees, as a special treat. However, people I follow on twitter are all very excited about what they saw.

This Kotaku article sounds pretty hyped up about it: http://www.polygon.com/2014/7/17/5913883/doom-4-quakecon-reveal

EDIT: Why did I say Kotaku? That's Polygon, sorry. Griffin McElroy is a pretty trustworthy games writer, FYI.

[Clonehunter]

Sounds like Brutal Doom

[Koko Ricky]

There are elements of Brutal Doom, though they're handled with much more tact.

[hardcore_gamer]

Epyo said:

This Kotaku article sounds pretty hyped up about it: http://www.polygon.com/2014/7/17/5913883/doom-4-quakecon-reveal

"The new Doom game is just titled 'Doom,' runs on id Tech 6, and more details"

Id Tech 6? So the game is actually getting a new engine? I think these are good news because Doom has always been more of a corridor shooter while Rage was more of a open world game.

EDIT: After reading the entire article it sounds like the game is going to be a lot like Brutal Doom. The say there are a lot of melee death animations and that in the gameplay video a demon took the arms of the player and punched the player to death with them. I don't know how much I will like this. While I love Brutal Doom I still think the mod can be a bit too silly at times. I hope that Doom 4 won't be too over the top.

[Mr. Freeze]

Brutal Doom didn't invent fatalities. It just sounds like Serious Sam 3's finishers, so I don't see a problem.

[Phml]

Eh, I thought Serious Sam 3 fatalities were pretty meh from a gameplay perspective. Early on with low amount of enemies it's just too powerful, you spam E, teleport to enemies and destroy everything. Later on with monster hordes and stronger weapons it becomes too risky and costly. There's some middle ground, but not that often. IMHO, being locked in place doing an animation just doesn't work that well in a run-and-gun FPS.

I'm much more fond of the Dead Space or Shadow Warrior 2013 approach. You want close range brutality, let the player dismember foes with his weapons. Same effect, but doesn't interrupt the gameplay flow; plus it feels more dynamic than watching the same animations over and over, and arguably more immersive as well (i.e. it's much easier to feel connected to the actions on screen by clicking LMB while swiping the mouse and see a sword thrust in the same direction than by pressing E and watch your character go into a complicated routine).

[reality 2.0]

Technician said:

Where's Quake 1?

they use quake live these days for quake deathmatch (I think it's quake live), remember?

They did a doom 2 deathmatch last year, so for the nostalgia, it would be fun to watch them play classic netquake or quakeworld.

[Kirby]

reality 2.0 said:

they use quake live these days for quake deathmatch (I think it's quake live), remember?

Unless they switched it over for a special event, Quake Live uses the Quake 3 engine, not Quake 1.

EDIT: Unless your implication was that Quake 1 has been done away with in favor of Quake Live tournaments?

[Koko Ricky]

Phml said:

Eh, I thought Serious Sam 3 fatalities were pretty meh from a gameplay perspective. Early on with low amount of enemies it's just too powerful, you spam E, teleport to enemies and destroy everything. Later on with monster hordes and stronger weapons it becomes too risky and costly. There's some middle ground, but not that often. IMHO, being locked in place doing an animation just doesn't work that well in a run-and-gun FPS.

I'm much more fond of the Dead Space or Shadow Warrior 2013 approach. You want close range brutality, let the player dismember foes with his weapons. Same effect, but doesn't interrupt the gameplay flow; plus it feels more dynamic than watching the same animations over and over, and arguably more immersive as well (i.e. it's much easier to feel connected to the actions on screen by clicking LMB while swiping the mouse and see a sword thrust in the same direction than by pressing E and watch your character go into a complicated routine).

From the footage shown, the fatalities are quite variable and happen very quickly. Not like in Brutal Doom where gameplay is interrupted for 5-10 seconds.

[reality 2.0]

Kirby said:

EDIT: Unless your implication was that Quake 1 has been done away with in favor of Quake Live tournaments?

yes, that was what I was saying m8. :p

[Phml]

SS3 fatalities are more in the 1-3 seconds range. Even the sub 1 second one feels slightly too long, anyone who's not been hit while stomping on spiders is either Jesus or stopped playing by level 2. No matter the duration, the camera takeover by itself breaks the pace.

As for variety, I have my doubts on whether there can be enough (but I'll give you it's certainly better than none). Riddick Butcher Bay had dozens of kill animations, and yet you saw repeats. Even in a "low" enemy count FPS you're still going to have murdered your way through a few hundred opponents by the end of the game.

I think that's another part where dynamic localized damage has an advantage over executions, taking Shadow Warrior 2013 again for example even if the animations are technically the same everytime when you slash some dude's arm, because you aimed for that arm yourself and because you could have just as well targeted any other body part and ended up with a different result, it doesn't feel repetitive. Much like nobody minds the blood splatters being from a limited selection when you shot dudes.

But preset animations, no matter the amount, in the end it's just about seeing which spot the Wheel of Gore landed on. Essentially a 2 second cinematic.

[kristus]

Wrack at QuakeCon.
http://new.livestream.com/quakecon/events/3192775/videos/56937614

[hardcore_gamer]

Who else is willing to bet that the only reason the Doom 4 footage wasn't shown to the public is because they are trying to build up hype and that it will be shown anyways in a couple of months?

EDIT: I read this on an ign article about the gameplay:

"Revenants now have jetpacks and can hover"

So the revenants can now fly? I am not so sure about this...

EDIT again:

"Old school mechanics. No reloading your clip, hold as many weapons as you want, health and ammo pick-ups etc. NO REGENERATING HEALTH."

Did I read that correctly? No reloading? They are actually willing to go THIS FAR back to the style of the original? This game is looking better and better.

[Koko Ricky]

I can't tell how dynamic the gore in Doom was, but I saw a lot of variety in the way enemies were killed. It really rings true to the gory death animations of the sprites. Sure, you'll eventually see the same deaths over and over, but the same can be said of old school Doom. What I'm digging about melee attacks is that you can keep your distance and simply blast away with your guns. It looks like you can be as point-blank as you prefer.

[hardcore_gamer]

GoatLord said:

I can't tell how dynamic the gore in Doom was, but I saw a lot of variety in the way enemies were killed. It really rings true to the gory death animations of the sprites. Sure, you'll eventually see the same deaths over and over, but the same can be said of old school Doom. What I'm digging about melee attacks is that you can keep your distance and simply blast away with your guns. It looks like you can be as point-blank as you prefer.

Are the graphics an improvment over Rage? Also, how smooth are the animations? While I did not like Rage I do remember that game having very smooth animations.

[Phml]

Sure, you'll eventually see the same deaths over and over, but the same can be said of old school Doom.

I don't think that's ever been a selling point for vanilla Doom, or for any other game for that matter. The industry hasn't looked back since ragdolls, and that's for the best IMO. I mean, surely if Doom 4 was locked at 35 FPS or lacked mouselook you wouldn't try to defend it on the basis the original game was like that (...right?).

It's not about seeing the same death animation either. It's about being locked in place forced to see the same death animation. Because in vanilla Doom, if I punch a zombie to death I don't have to stand there and watch it fall down. I'm probably already turning to face another monster before his gibs hit the ground.

[Carnevil]

Romero was there! I know he was there on Friday, but he was walking around the exhibition hall on Saturday as well checking out all the exhibits. We got to meet him, and wow, he's a super nice, friendly, down-to-earth guy. He was constantly smiling and talking with people, still passionate about the things he did (and is doing), and is still full of great ideas... he was just awesome!

He also sat down to play Wrack, and totally on his own, gave us this:



*swoon*

[Clonehunter]

I will pleasure you in every way just to borrow that shirt for a day.

That's fuckin' sweet, man! Wrack is shaping up nicely. I should buy it sometime.

[Patrol1985]

Damn Carnevil, that's awesome!

I'm sad again that Romero and Carmack are not in id anymore ;(

EDIT: I wonder what Romero has to say about Doom 4. According to his facebook, he went to Quakecon to see the game's preview (among other things)

EDIT 2: Carmack may not be there, but he hasn't forgotten:

https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/489612538162593793