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Quasar

Bethesda/id officially plug Brutal Doom on "Doom" Twitter

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Not surprising. What's more surprising to me is that contrary to the usual press regarding Doom mods, Brutal Doom actually isn't the only mod that's gotten recognition on their official Twitter feed. They retweeted a BTSX E1M1 shot from @doomretro a couple months ago :)

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Does this imply Id Software Zenimax has only just now *recently become aware of major doom mods/works? Or only now choosing to acknowledge them?

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I never really regarded it as much of a mystery or a matter of speculation that they were inspired by Brutal Doom. Doesn't change anything, IMO.

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esselfortium said:

Not surprising. What's more surprising to me is that contrary to the usual press regarding Doom mods, Brutal Doom actually isn't the only mod that's gotten recognition on their official Twitter feed. They retweeted a BTSX E1M1 shot from @doomretro a couple months ago :)

Hahaha, BTSX with Brutal Doom attached.

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Matt Hooper, of the former designers also gave it recognition...I wonder if they've ever player Scythe 2.

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Tuxlar said:
Does this imply Id Software Zenimax has only just now become aware of major doom mods/works?

Maybe they "grew up" (literally or in the game development sense) playing DOOM mods, unlike most of the earlier id guys that made the original.

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This seems to confirm what Rage and Doom 3 BFG Edition made me fear. Rage, while it's combat was generally good, also had douchey regenerating health, weak "boss" fights, and no climax whatsoever. BFG Edition of Doom 3 probably would have been too much of a pain in the ass to remove all the health packs and health stations, but instead they watered down some of the harder fights, brightened it up, and made every health station have 100% health available even though the base game wasn't even that hard on Veteran. And that's coming from me, whom I wouldn't consider to be the best gamer around by a long shot.

I was a little encouraged by the teaser trailer, but now I'm back to fearing the new game will be too easy and full of "whoa cool dude" violence that impressed me when I was 12 but now just looks over the top and lame. Realistic violence I'm ok with, or excess here and there, but when your game looks like Kill Bill but still wants to be taken seriously, you lose my vote. I REALLY hope they don't go that route.

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There's so many great maps and mods and they just have to only do it for this one.

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Face23785 said:

full of "whoa cool dude" violence that impressed me when I was 12 but now just looks over the top and lame. Realistic violence I'm ok with, or excess here and there, but when your game looks like Kill Bill but still wants to be taken seriously, you lose my vote. I REALLY hope they don't go that route.


What do you mean by "taken seriously"? Taken seriously as a good game, or taken seriously as a narrative?

Pete Hines said in the GT Bonus Round video that "games are allowed to just be fun" and they "don't always need to have a moral story and teach you something about humanity". So I don't think they're trying to be taken seriously in that regard, and I think that's pretty refreshing in an era where nearly every big-budget FPS game is trying to do the opposite.

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Face23785 said:

I was a little encouraged by the teaser trailer, but now I'm back to fearing the new game will be too easy and full of "whoa cool dude" violence that impressed me when I was 12 but now just looks over the top and lame. Realistic violence I'm ok with, or excess here and there, but when your game looks like Kill Bill but still wants to be taken seriously, you lose my vote. I REALLY hope they don't go that route.


The reveal showed violence that was very intense, but I don't think it was trying to "impress" anyone. It was, for me, just very brutally humorous and satisfying. We all love the death animations from the original Doom and the reveal showcased how that could translate to the current generation of games. The whole "I'm too old to find that cool" attitude seems a bit misplaced; I think it's more like, "You're never too old to have good violent fun in a video game."

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ChickenOrBeef said:

What do you mean by "taken seriously"? Taken seriously as a good game, or taken seriously as a narrative?

Pete Hines said in the GT Bonus Round video that "games are allowed to just be fun" and they "don't always need to have a moral story and teach you something about humanity". So I don't think they're trying to be taken seriously in that regard, and I think that's pretty refreshing in an era where nearly every big-budget FPS game is trying to do the opposite.

Betting anything we'll still get to see some notable form of 'pushy morals', but maybe Zenimax, et al is starting to sense general patience for the trend is running thin.

DooM_RO said:

Matt Hooper, of the former designers also gave it recognition...I wonder if they've ever player Scythe 2.

Scythe 2... among many others.

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From what people are saying about the new Doom gameplay live demo, outside of amped up gore, I don't see a whole lot they are drawing from when it comes to Brutal Doom. Could it just be that they are using the popularity of that mod to piggyback some Doom hype? That twitter account IS a marketing tool after all.

The idea that a group of professional designers and artists would just ape a mod like Brutal Doom is ridiculous. Media were comparing it to Mortal Kombat, which is fitting, Because I'm pretty sure they were comparing the original Doom to Mortal Kombat upon it's release. I don't see what's so out of line here.

I get the feeling that some people just WANT id to fall flat on their faces. So they could scream from a mountain top "TOLD YOU! I told you that id software are a shadow of their former selves and make glorified tech demos!" All this negativity seems unjustified, considering most of the people on this forum who saw the demo at Quakecon had extremely positive things to say.

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Obzen said:

From what people are saying about the new Doom gameplay live demo, outside of amped up gore, I don't see a whole lot they are drawing from when it comes to Brutal Doom.

Fatality-style moves? Ability to finish off stunned/critically injured monsters with melee attacks? From every BD video I've seen, those are a couple of its primary elements.

There will always be people who focus on negativity, and yes, after all the years and the ups and downs and the actions of Bethesda in general, there are some people who derive significant schadenfreude from any perception that the project is failing. The reveal was meant to stop or reverse some of that, but I feel the refusal to make it world-wide has hurt in some eyes more than helped. There's still a lot of skepticism.

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Obzen said:

From what people are saying about the new Doom gameplay live demo, outside of amped up gore, I don't see a whole lot they are drawing from when it comes to Brutal Doom. Could it just be that they are using the popularity of that mod to piggyback some Doom hype? That twitter account IS a marketing tool after all.

The idea that a group of professional designers and artists would just ape a mod like Brutal Doom is ridiculous. Media were comparing it to Mortal Kombat, which is fitting, Because I'm pretty sure they were comparing the original Doom to Mortal Kombat upon it's release. I don't see what's so out of line here.

I get the feeling that some people just WANT id to fall flat on their faces. So they could scream from a mountain top "TOLD YOU! I told you that id software are a shadow of their former selves and make glorified tech demos!" All this negativity seems unjustified, considering most of the people on this forum who saw the demo at Quakecon had extremely positive things to say.


Maybe you're right. I'd have to see it for myself. Damn it.

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Obzen said:

I get the feeling that some people just WANT id to fall flat on their faces. So they could scream from a mountain top "TOLD YOU! I told you that id software are a shadow of their former selves and make glorified tech demos!" All this negativity seems unjustified, considering most of the people on this forum who saw the demo at Quakecon had extremely positive things to say.


Yes, that's exactly what I fear as well. I see it happening with other games such as the new Dragon Age. You get all these irritating Witcher fanboys who basically say "you are a retard for giving this game attention". I REALLY hope this won't be the case for Doom 4. I don't want to see idiotic comments that Doom 4 is a BD copycat when it clearly is not. I think it deserves a chance at least.

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DooM_RO said:

Yes, that's exactly what I fear as well. I see it happening with other games such as the new Dragon Age. You get all these irritating Witcher fanboys who basically say "you are a retard for giving this game attention". I REALLY hope this won't be the case for Doom 4. I don't want to see idiotic comments that Doom 4 is a BD copycat when it clearly is not. I think it deserves a chance at least.


Even if Doom 4 is just a BD copycat, for a lot of people that is a major plus. There are a lot of people across the internet who want the new Doom to be just like BD. I don't see how copying BD could hurt Doom 4's success whatsoever.

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Would people who don't like Brutal Doom agree that Doom with Brutal Doom is a better game then Serious Sam and/or Painkiller?

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DooM_RO said:

Yes, that's exactly what I fear as well. I see it happening with other games such as the new Dragon Age. You get all these irritating Witcher fanboys who basically say "you are a retard for giving this game attention". I REALLY hope this won't be the case for Doom 4. I don't want to see idiotic comments that Doom 4 is a BD copycat when it clearly is not. I think it deserves a chance at least.


With the breadth of content out there these days, it's easy to dismiss something as a waste or "inferior" to something else that is sorta similar. Dragon Age is a good example, while it's a fantasy RPG not that dissimilar to the Witcher, their quirks cater to different tastes. I'm glad they both exist.

I remember people telling me that there was no reason to play Quake II when Half-Life came out. Why exactly? That's like saying there is no reason to play Street Fighter because Tekken exists. A lot of people speak of id software as if the perceived "quality" of their games are not up to standard of other games, when I think that's more a matter of taste. My rebuttal is, id software have always made gunplay-driven FPS games. Some have more story than others, some have more atmosphere, they all have tight mechanics and solid gunplay. There is no need to freak out when pretty much every game they have put out has been good in that regard. It seems to me like they have rectified the things I disliked about Rage, and that's all I need.

This forum isn't necessarily an id software forum, but a Doom forum, so I guess there are probably plenty of people on here that aren't post-Quake id fans. To that I would say, id really hasn't changed all that much, output wise. Especially compared to other companies of their tenure. If you were disappointed in Quake, Quake II, Quake III and Doom III, you will most likely be disappointed again. Just like Street Fighter II fans were disappointed in Street Fighter III and III fans were disappointed in IV. If you are a fan of id-style FPS and Arena Shooters, you should be really excited, because they seem to understand why people still show up to Quakecon every year... and it's sure as hell not because of Brutal Doom.

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Captain Red said:

Would people who don't like Brutal Doom agree that Doom with Brutal Doom is a better game then Serious Sam and/or Painkiller?


A better game how? It's way different. I like the gameplay in SS1 and Second Encounter, as well as Painkiller, much more than Brutal Doom. Stealth takedowns, Iron Sights, Headshots, overpowered hitscan enemies that force cover... these things are not things I enjoy. So no, I will not say Brutal Doom is better than those games.

When I want gore and over-the-topness with my Doom, I play Beautiful Doom, a game where I can get eye candy and gore without seriously messing with the tight/fast/elegant gunplay of Doom.

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Captain Red said:

Would people who don't like Brutal Doom agree that Doom with Brutal Doom is a better game then Serious Sam and/or Painkiller?


This question makes no sense. To agree with such a ludicrous statement, one would presumably have to be crazy enough to also like Brutal Doom in the first place.

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I dislike both Serious Sam and Painkiller. They are arena shooters, where all the gameplay consists of
1)player moves into a new area, often a square outdoor area or a large room
2)Lots of monsters are dropped on the player, until player kills them all
3)Occasional switch hunt (8% chance)
4)Repeat.

In that regard, Doom and Brutal Doom, by an extension, is a much better game.

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While I'm not a fan of it either, I'm actually starting to detest seeing all the whining about Brutal Doom. Everyone has their tastes, Christ.

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The whole Brutal Doom thing reminds me of how metal fans consider genres like Metalcore and Nu Metal.

-On one hand, Metalcore and Nu Metal increased the mainstream appeal of Metal by fusing it with newer, trendier musical elements
-But the big Metal fans became annoyed that the main representation of their favorite genre was something far removed from why they originally liked the genre

So just like a lot of Metal fans said stuff like "Metalcore is fine, but it's not Metal", you're now seeing Doom fans say "Brutal Doom is fine, but it's not Doom". They don't like how Brutal Doom is representing Doom more than the actual game these days.

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ChickenOrBeef said:

The whole Brutal Doom thing reminds me of how metal fans consider genres like Metalcore and Nu Metal.

-On one hand, Metalcore and Nu Metal increased the mainstream appeal of Metal by fusing it with newer, trendier musical elements
-But the big Metal fans became annoyed that the main representation of their favorite genre was something far removed from why they originally liked the genre

So just like a lot of Metal fans said stuff like "Metalcore is fine, but it's not Metal", you're now seeing Doom fans say "Brutal Doom is fine, but it's not Doom". They don't like how Brutal Doom is representing Doom more than the actual game these days.


In terms of music though, religiously following the genre is sorta retarded in its own right. Follow the music/artist itself, and not whatever genres or sub-genres (or styles even) it is "considered" to be.

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ChickenOrBeef said:

The whole Brutal Doom thing reminds me of how metal fans consider genres like Metalcore and Nu Metal.

-On one hand, Metalcore and Nu Metal increased the mainstream appeal of Metal by fusing it with newer, trendier musical elements
-But the big Metal fans became annoyed that the main representation of their favorite genre was something far removed from why they originally liked the genre

So just like a lot of Metal fans said stuff like "Metalcore is fine, but it's not Metal", you're now seeing Doom fans say "Brutal Doom is fine, but it's not Doom". They don't like how Brutal Doom is representing Doom more than the actual game these days.


9 times out of 10, a real fan of metal would also like Brutal Doom.

Your argument would make more sense if it were, "Some fans of traditional Heavy Metal, dislike Death and Black Metal because its more extreme".

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