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Brad_tilf

Is Doom still relevant?

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I got this question from my daughter earlier today. She was like, I didn't know anybody still played that! Of course, I straightened her out. lol
I don't know if the Doom community is what it once was but based on how busy these forums are and how busy DWS has been, I would have to say that there is still a very large and active community out there.

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It's still relevant in terms of standards for a nearly 20 year old game, but mostly because people use it to help start their careers in mapping I think.

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MeetyourUnmaker said:

It's still relevant in terms of standards for a nearly 20 year old game, but mostly because people use it to help start their careers in mapping I think.

Alot of people map at their own leisure too

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If you ask people (old enough) about Doom, chances are they'll identify it.

Besides, it is a game. Any old game (that's not encumbered by outdated DRM that is) can be fun and doesn't go through the same obsolescence as serious software.

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Brad_tilf said:

I don't know if the Doom community is what it once was but based on how busy these forums are and how busy DWS has been, I would have to say that there is still a very large and active community out there.


Yeah man, I'd say we're over the 'recession' from the early 2000's where there was never many people online, between the 3 multiplayer ports you get a fairly 100+ number at any time. I'm so glad the game is still so active!

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It's still active and I would not say it has been in decline except if you compare activity in the 90s - I would say it has been steady for the last 10 years I have been a member.

That is not be same as relevance though, which is a harder question to answer and even difficult to apply to an old video game. How do you measure relevance? The community might still be thriving, utilities are still being maintained and user built content is being made at as high a standard as ever - but doesn't that make us just a successful niche?

I think you need to look at how Doom crosses over to the mainstream - and not solely in a 'yeah, I remember that game' sort of way. Examples of peaks in relevance will be the release of Doom 3, the Doom movie, the IOS/tablet ports, the inclusion of classic Doom in the BFG edition/PSN and the spotlight put on Doom in the 20th anniversary articles. We're due another over the next couple of years due to the hype, marketing and eventual release of DOOM (4).

So does that make Doom relevant? I'd say less so than Super Mario Bros but more so than Space Invaders.

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I'd say it is. As a paradigm of pure game-play and great balance there's little better. That must keep it relevant at least as a part of history but also as a lesson in game design.

Also, as much as things grow and evolve they're also cyclical. Game-play is no different. Over the past few years we've been crushed by the shear number of slow, plodding, hand-holding games. I don't think it's coincidence that the mainstream are starting to feel fatigued by all those slow, 'realistic' shooters. There's a reason that the new Doom is going back to it's roots. People are looking for something a little more pacey and a bit more 'arcadey' in feel than real humans hating and killing each other...

The distillation of core game experiences can be seen in lots of games and genres across the board and 'bite size' game-play is massive in the mobile market. Again, Doom is still there being ported to every bit of tech on the planet! :)

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Old Doom is seriously relevant, guys. Isn't the upcoming Doom game based on it?

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The problem is that nowadays old Doom is poorly represented. Most people don't realize there are modern source ports to add 60 fps, give mouse look, improve graphics, add gameplay features etc. Even less people actually bother to play "such an old game" so they don't understand the zooming addictiveness of it. If they did, they would be floored at the sheer amount of mapping/mod support to expand the playing experience - but few ever get that far.

Like this young guy from my old work once asked: "What games do you play?"
Me: "Doom"
Him: "Uhh, any GOOD games?"
Me: ...

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RUSH said:

Like this young guy from my old work once asked: "What games do you play?"
Me: "Doom"
Him: "Uhh, any GOOD games?"
Me: ...

What a doucher. Probably likes the slow, grinding horse dung Average was talking about above.

A freind I met at work recently came over, and thought my Doom maps were interesting, he saw nothing wrong with enjoying the classics even though he usually plays new-era stuff.

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XCOPY said:

What did she mean with "relevant"?


Something that people actually spend time on any longer

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purist said:

Any amount of people for any amount of time?


Well, I'm pretty sure we all still understand the term "relevant". I think Doom is still relevant - it is still (in my mind) the benchmark against which many fps games are measured, even today, in terms of gameplay and sheer enjoyment. Obviously, the sheer awe that we felt at the time when it first came out is not there any longer - Doom did something that no other game had ever done and that no other game since has been able to replicate in terms of sheer - "wow" factor. And, of course, it would appear that there is still a very sizable community of players, and mappers in the world and that even younger people still enjoy playing the game because of the ports and the mapping community which continues to bring us new talent.

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RUSH said:

The problem is that nowadays old Doom is poorly represented. Most people don't realize there are modern source ports to add 60 fps, give mouse look, improve graphics, add gameplay features etc. Even less people actually bother to play "such an old game" so they don't understand the zooming addictiveness of it. If they did, they would be floored at the sheer amount of mapping/mod support to expand the playing experience - but few ever get that far.

Like this young guy from my old work once asked: "What games do you play?"
Me: "Doom"
Him: "Uhh, any GOOD games?"
Me: ...


I think it is sort of on us, as a community, make sure that people are aware of this, which is why I often use openGL ports to do reviews, etc...

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Brad_tilf said:

Well, I'm pretty sure we all still understand the term "relevant".


I know what it means, but in this context it is a subjective term. You can objectively measure it's relevance by asking the question; if Doom was erased would anyone notice? Which, of course they would - but is that satisfactory to answer the question being asked?

Technically, there is a degree of relevance if only one person is regularly playing the game but that is obviously not what your daughter was asking because she already knew you are a player. I supposes the return question is: relevant compared to what?

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purist said:

I know what it means, but in this context it is a subjective term. You can objectively measure it's relevance by asking the question; if Doom was erased would anyone notice? Which, of course they would - but is that satisfactory to answer the question being asked?

Technically, there is a degree of relevance if only one person is regularly playing the game but that is obviously not what your daughter was asking because she already knew you are a player. I supposes the return question is: relevant compared to what?


True, that in and of itself is a valid question.

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RUSH said:

The problem is that nowadays old Doom is poorly represented.

A lot of things confirm this for me. People ask a lot of things on mapping on the forums, shouldn't there be a nice manual or tutorial series somewhere? Also when I was still starting to get into the speed running scene there was some trial and error in getting stuff working, tips, etc. Even now I still learn new stuff such as blockmap bugs and such simply because I encounter them by accident. There are one of two nice tutorial type threads around but really it should be nice if there were proper and easily accessible multimedia documentation around, also for TAS runs, etc. Second step would be to inform the masses about this in some way on a sustainable basis.

And yes I think Doom is still relevant. At least the developers of Doom 4 seem to think so.

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Perhaps the main page should be updated with links to Youtube videos that show how to use Doombuilder? Maybe that would help. A Doomworld presence on Youtube (playthroughs, tutes, reviews, interviews)could hurt either... All these things are produced by people on the forum. It would take a little work to unify that content and one banner and choose 'official' content though. :)

So, who would like to be an 'official' rep on Youtube, then?

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Well, the second episode of Jim Sterling and Yankee's "Uncivil War" on the Escapist was a 3-round survival thing in Doom II MAP30 using Brutal Doom, so I'd say gaming media is still very aware of Doom.

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To the absolute uppermost layers of the mainstream and to a lot of younger gamers, mention of Doom might elicit a shrug or a "meh." One has to be less concerned with the bleeding edge of hardware to appreciate Doom, or at least have had the opportunity to play it when it was newish. I would say the average gamer is unlikely to think of Doom as synonymous with first person shooting as say, Master Chief, or their character on COD.

On a broader scale, the mainstream certainly appreciates Doom. There are countless YouTube videos of various WADs and playthroughs from nearly every commercial version, even obscure ones from the mid 90s (such as the Atari Jaguar). There are also plenty of videos of game reviewers offering their criticism on the franchise. It's been ported to (more or less) contemporary consoles like the PS3 and XBOX 360. I see Doom memes and fan art show up on Facebook once in awhile.

With the hype surrounding the super secret reveal, and the knowledge that a proper Doom reboot is in development, I imagine it'll capture the general public's eye once again, something that will be further cemented by a movie tie-in, which I think is a possibility if the game gets enough attention.

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Average said:

Perhaps the main page should be updated with links to Youtube videos that show how to use Doombuilder? Maybe that would help. A Doomworld presence on Youtube (playthroughs, tutes, reviews, interviews)could hurt either... All these things are produced by people on the forum. It would take a little work to unify that content and one banner and choose 'official' content though. :)

So, who would like to be an 'official' rep on Youtube, then?


I would LOVE to host a "how to" series on Youtube at DWS. I'm in, if anyone wants to produce the videos. :-)

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Yes it is still relevant seeing as it's still maintaining a healthy -eat your 5 a day bullshit- community, despite having a slight drop in the multiplayer communities over the years. Not every Doom fan is on Doomworld, as many people are also within different communities related to Doom, such as; ZDoom, Zandrobum etc. Not to mention that it appears to be pretty much the top choice for people looking for a way to begin modding with ease.

About tutorials, there's already tutorials for Doom Builder 2 on YT and some here too, although it would be nice to have them all in one, handy, bite sized page. Oh, TAS tutorials is a MUST, mostly for XDRE though, seeing as the PrBoom + commands like -recordfromto, -turbo, etc. Are mentioned in a few TAS assistance threads, whereas the former isn't mentioned in as much detail.

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