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GoatLord

"6 Clasic Things We Want to Return in the 'Doom' Reboot"

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http://gamerant.com/6-wanted-features-in-doom-reboot/

It's actually seven, which is a demonstration of the vigilance of modern editors. Anyway, it wraps up quite nicely the uniquely Doom-y things that are a must for the reboot. I think it's particularly interesting that they stressed the strategic possibilities of barrels, which were featured in the demo but only slightly. The Spider Mastermind was another interesting one, because there's concept art of it back from Doom 3's development, and it looks gorgeous. No need to mention the Cybedemon, since it's clear that dude is coming back.

SPOILER: Almost all of you will probably agree that #1 is fucking stupid. It's a cute easter egg, but it doesn't even deserve to be #7. I dunno how the writer could have thought that Doom fans cherished this as some sort of must-have feature, because otherwise he's got a clue on what Doom is about. If anything has to be number one, it's probably either a) a really badass shotgun or b) overtly demonic aesthetics.

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I'd move level design to number one personally. The "lots of metal" bit is really kind of dumb and there's also no reason a Doom game wouldn't have a BFG.

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Marnetmar said:

I'd move level design to number one personally. The "lots of metal" bit is really kind of dumb and there's also no reason a Doom game wouldn't have a BFG.


Yeah, that I've got to agree with. I really don't see why there'd be any fear at all that the BFG wouldn't return. The metal thing, too. I fucking LOVE metal, and still jam it all the time, but I can do without it. A new Doom game will do jus fine with dark ambient. It's interesting to see a mainstream article about this sort of thing, and it's great that level design was mentioned. I probably would have moved it to number one, too.

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GoatLord said:

A new Doom game will do jus fine with dark ambient.

Or, you know, jazz and blues. Doomguy is probably gonna walk in trashed cafes picking up bulk cells.

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This kind of presentation, where you need to allow strange sites to use Javascript and then click for each paragraph, annoys me. Also they count down for some dumb reason.

(7 of 7) Traps and Exploding Barrels
(6 of 7) Level Design
(5 of 7) Score System
(4 of 7) Lots of Metal
(3 of 7) BFG9000
(2 of 7) The Spider Mastermind
(1 of 7) BONUS: John Romero On a Stick


I'm just gonna go and disagree with all except the level design and traps part (and traps are part of level design). Doom can perfectly work without metal (hello, PSX Doom/Doom 64), without the BFG9000 or the Spider Mastermind (hello, shareware episode everybody loves the most), and certainly without a dumb easter egg you can only see with a noclip cheat.

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Gez said:

I'm just gonna go and disagree with all except the level design and traps part (and traps are part of level design). Doom can perfectly work without metal (hello, PSX Doom/Doom 64), without the BFG9000 or the Spider Mastermind (hello, shareware episode everybody loves the most), and certainly without a dumb easter egg you can only see with a noclip cheat.


I mostly agree with you, except for the part about Doom not needing the BFG. I mean let's face it - the BFG is more or less the most iconic thing about Doom, and I'm sure lots of fans would die to see it.

Also, this is slightly off-topic, but judging by what I read about the reveal in GoatLord's thread, I have a feeling id listened too much to their fans. While I love to hear that it's stepping in the old-school direction, I don't want it to feel exactly like a modern remake of classic Doom either.

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It mostly seems old school in a broad way. It's action-oriented, the classic guns and monsters are back, and the story isn't intrusive. But with the acrobatic way the player jumps around, the way fatalities help assist combat, and the fact that neither level shown looks like a classic Doom map, I don't think it's going to be a carbon copy remake by any means.

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printz said:

Or, you know, jazz and blues. Doomguy is probably gonna walk in trashed cafes picking up bulk cells.

Reminds me of Fallout 3/NV.

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Doominator2 said:

If I ever have to see a Hi-Res John Romero on a stick in the new game, I'll staple my fucking ballsack to the ceiling.


Maybe they'll do it if we send them this post in an email. Because just maybe, maybe, they'd want to see that.

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MFG38 said:

I mostly agree with you, except for the part about Doom not needing the BFG. I mean let's face it - the BFG is more or less the most iconic thing about Doom, and I'm sure lots of fans would die to see it.

Iconic, schmiconic. The BFG is just one endgame superweapon. You're basically guaranteed to get one anyway. And unless you're a slaughtermap afficionado, you'll probably spend more time shooting with the shotguns than with the high-end energy weapons in Doom. Doom can perfectly be Doom without a BFG (again, it wasn't in the shareware episode, and I don't see many people arguing that Knee-Deep in the Dead sucked). The wall with a head of the Icon of Sin is iconic too, but there's not much clamor for getting it again, is there?

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be a BFG. I'm saying that it's not really one of the things that makes or breaks the game for me. If it has good gameplay, good level design, and a good Doom-like ambiance, then it's going to be a good Doom game, even if it were to lack a metal soundtrack, end-of-level score screen, the BFG 9000 and the spider mastermind.

On the other hand, a game with all the elements they listed but lousy gameplay and a non-Doomy ambiance, then it won't feel like it's really Doom.

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Everyone loves the BFG, but if there's any weapon that can make or break a Doom game, it's the motherfucking shotgun. It was pretty lousy in Doom 3, which was just heartbreaking. The reveal at Quakecon showed off a very nice shotgun, so I think we're safe on that front. The shotgun is in my book more iconic than the BFG or any other weapon in the game.

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Not bothered about most of those in so much, if the game is good and feels like a modern version of Doom II then I won't mind their absence.

Here's my own list

1. Player speed and agility
2. Focus on projectile avoidance
3. Infighting
4. Immediately recognisable monsters
5. A shotgun that is enjoyable to use
6. An unintrusive story

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GoatLord said:

Everyone loves the BFG, but if there's any weapon that can make or break a Doom game, it's the motherfucking shotgun. It was pretty lousy in Doom 3, which was just heartbreaking. The reveal at Quakecon showed off a very nice shotgun, so I think we're safe on that front. The shotgun is in my book more iconic than the BFG or any other weapon in the game.


Hell yes. It's Doomguy's main demon killing weapon!

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Monster placement. It needs a good balance between occasional hordes of monsters, and then some suspenseful ambushes here and there.
Some interconnected level design would be great as well, since I don't want to progress through scripted corridors and only have one primary route to go through an entire level.

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In the author's defense, the Romero head was just a "bonus" thing we want, and I took it mostly as a joke. And I don't think he literally meant we need to see it again, just some kind of easter egg that pays homage to the old guard.

I'm not sure how much I agree about the BFG. While it is an iconic weapon, I hardly use the damned thing even when I have plenty of cells. I kill almost everything with the shotgun. That said, the maps need to have lots and lots of shotgun shells :D

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purist said:

Not bothered about most of those in so much, if the game is good and feels like a modern version of Doom II then I won't mind their absence.

Here's my own list

1. Player speed and agility
2. Focus on projectile avoidance
3. Infighting
4. Immediately recognisable monsters
5. A shotgun that is enjoyable to use
6. An unintrusive story


7. Really good maps full of real secrets, different routes, secret levels.

Then I think I will be happy.

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A more interesting article would have been "Six classic things we don't want to return in the Doom reboot".

To make it really interesting, don't list anything that has no chance of returning anyway, such as stuff dictated by constraints of the era (low-res sprites, MIDI music, maps in 2D+elevation, etc.) or other irrelevant technicalities (like engine bugs).

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what i want the most in NON LINEAR LEVEL plz, i want to be lost when i search for the key, like e2m4 or e2m6(if i remember correctly)

also enjoyable combat and unique monsters(doom 2 like, different sound for each different behaviour ecc...), rest i don't care much

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One thing that I want to return in the new Doom are the environmental hazards like nuclear waste, lava, etc. There wasn't too much of that in Doom 3.

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I'd not only like to see it return, but used in inventive ways. Maybe there are sections where you can waste a bunch of enemies by hitting a switch that dumps a bunch of waste or whatever the fluid is, scalding (though maybe not completely killing) whoever's in the way.

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I hope the new Doom has some metal / cool riffs on the fast paced maps, just the same way the old Doom games have some. Even on the PC version, the soundtrack is 2/3rds ambient, so it should probably stay that way.

Oh, I also really hope there's some emphasis on strong Deathmatch play. Just a few maps designed specifically for killing intelligent opponents and taking all the new gameplay changes into account and using them wisely - Man, that would be a total blast. It'd be nice for people to associate the term "deathmatch" with fast-paced strategic fragging again rather than conjuring up images of "2 guns only and sniper beats all".. *shudders*

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What about:

1) Every weapon hurts every monster.
Sure, big bosses could still have 'puzzle' ways to defeat them, and 'mystic' weapons could perhaps do more damage to demons than to 'humans', but you should be able to blow away the final boss with a pistol if you want. It will just take forever

2) Variable secret difficulty, with variable rewards.
Some secrets should just be a switch in a dark corner, which opens a nearby panel. But that should only contain a few boxes of shells. If you want to get a super-powerful weapon early, you could maybe find half a keycode near a bin at the start of the level, and the other half in a dead guys pocket at the end, and have to backtrack for it.

3) An automap, and computer area maps.
There could be multiple computer area maps on some levels, some just show the level, whilst others are on PDA's which belonged to people, on which they have annotated interesting things!

4) Everything "in the game".
No doubt martianbuddy.com is still up - but what if the original doom was still asking you to "call up the ID BBS toll-free on 1-800-DOOMSTER for the access code"?

5) Infighting, with "acting".
Infighting was a fun part of classic doom - but imagine an Imp which has accidentally pissed off a Baron cowering in fear before it's head gets ripped off! Also, zombies being too stupid to realise the same.

6) Some stuff being just plain silly
Maybe in Hell / Hell-distorted areas, levels could emphasise tactics, doominess and "fun". rather than a realistic space base. What the hell is "O of Destruction" supposed to be, anyway?

7) Nonlinear "open" level design with short-and-long cuts
I suppose making a modern, detailed FPS map requires so much work, that the designers understandably want us to see all of it. By contrast, it's famously possible to skip about 60% of E1M1 if you want to. Some secret passages could bypass some areas entirely, whilst others lead to more-difficult alternative routes - perhaps with even more ammo in them, so skilled players will still benefit overall.

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I'd be happy if Doom 4 still had metal in the soundtrack, but only for short portions of some levels. Like bossfights, and even then it should be very ambient doom or black metal.

Yob - Exorcism of the Host

Go to 00:09:00. I can imagine a boss fight to this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I15u8LhFU0o

I don't think thrash metal will have any place in the new Doom, except maybe if they do something like in Doom II's "Barrels O' Fun" where you have to make a dashing escape to the end of the level.

For general gameplay, I'm feeling something very atmospheric and dark. Maybe like they did in Doom PSX.

Or this, minus the vocals, obviously. The demons will lay down their own vocal track. haha

Xasthur - Telepathic with the Deceased
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBQGGLcbmQU

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Explosive barrels are the most retarded thing in FPS because they're put purposely in the right places to kill lots of enemies. It's even more retarded when the enemies are supposed to be humans like in CoD, they see the explosive barrel under his nose just to kill him and acts as if it was nothing.

In any facility, mainly in space, security is the most important thing, and putting explosives under the nose just for the sake being there + exploding and killing its own crew conveniently is super retarded.

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Kaskaum said:

Explosive barrels are the most retarded thing in FPS because they're put purposely in the right places to kill lots of enemies. It's even more retarded when the enemies are supposed to be humans like in CoD, they see the explosive barrel under his nose just to kill him and acts as if it was nothing.

In any facility, mainly in space, security is the most important thing, and putting explosives under the nose just for the sake being there + exploding and killing its own crew conveniently is super retarded.


Explosive barrels are awesome and fun! I don't know about explosive barrels in COD since I don't play COD, but explosive barrels in Doom, especially in Brutal Doom are awesome. They can actually add some strategy in the game if you can move them around and such. In Brutal Doom, for example, you can pick them up and throw them and you can also kick them in order to reposition them to set up traps. I really hope that the new Doom makes great use of explosive barrels.

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doom_is_great said:

Explosive barrels are awesome and fun! I don't know about explosive barrels in COD since I don't play COD, but explosive barrels in Doom, especially in Brutal Doom are awesome. They can actually add some strategy in the game if you can move them around and such. In Brutal Doom, for example, you can pick them up and throw them and you can also kick them in order to reposition them to set up traps. I really hope that the new Doom makes great use of explosive barrels.


Classic Doom have abstract levels and just like platformers are made with traps put in the right places for the player to take advantage of them, that's why it works out.

But it is super retarded in a more realistc shooter game which takes place in military-space bases for example and have barrels in no sense places like even in kitchens.

Normally those things are stored in proper places in order to protect the personel, not to be put in every corridor, resting room, dining room, etc.

Not to mention the barrels of Doom are made of radioactive waste, which makes less sense to be put anywhere as if it were normal trash.

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Now I remembered this old post of a player sick of explosive barrels especially in BF:

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/anyone-else-getting-sick-of-explosive-barrels-26935960/

http://www.alteredgamer.com/shooters/120382-stupid-fps-conventions-that-should-be-laid-to-rest/

The Land of Crates and Barrels

"The two staple scenery fillers for FPS games have been used for decades now. They add a new dimension to boring corridors and empty warehouse spaces. They can serve as ladders to reach new areas of a map. They can be used as makeshift explosives to blow away your enemies.

The thing is they are used even in environments where they make no sense at all. I mean seriously, how many times do large groups of your henchmen need to get blown away before you realise that having piles of highly explosive barrels sitting around everywhere is a really bad idea? Why do groups of bad guys stand next to explosive barrels and continue to stand there under incoming gunfire? What are they actually planning to do with all these explosive barrels anyway?"

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The point of Doom is not realism. It's fun. There are a lot of things in Doom that don't make much sense. Having explosive weapons in a highly pressurized facility is a really bad idea to begin with. Also, a chainsaw in a space station? That makes no sense whatsoever! But it's fun and cool.

I hope that the new Doom has lots of explosive barrels. Doom invented the concept practically! Would be a real shame if they didn't implement them and make good use of them.

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