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Brad_tilf

Thoughts on changes to main page?

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So, I've heard alot about how Doom Wad Station is you know... web 1.0

Well.... I'd like to change that - at least a little. So I changed up the main page today. I wanted to get your thoughts on it and any feedback on whether anyone runs into any issues with the java I'm using for the navigation (specifically). I can't test everything. I've tried it out in IE and Chrome on my Win 7 machine. Interested to see if anyone runs into any issues. I'm going to start porting to some of the other main pages but I wanted to get some thoughts first.
I tried to clean it up alot and make it a little easier. I know it needs more work, but you gotta start somewhere. :-)

http://www.doomwadstation.net

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Tuxlar said:

Hide All and Show All options are inverted.


What browser? I've used both ie and chrome without issue so far
Just looked again. def. not seeing that

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In Firefox they aren't inverted, but whenever I click Show All (or Hide All if it's already expanded) below Site Navigation it also expands the links in IDGames Navigation and vice versa.

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Zed said:

In Firefox they aren't inverted, but whenever I click Show All (or Hide All if it's already expanded) below Site Navigation it also expands the links in IDGames Navigation and vice versa.


Ya, that one I know about. Not sure how to separate them unless I just change to one set but it is two different menu's running off the same js file. hmmmm

Still better than the old way. ;-)

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Looking really classic, just the way a Doom site should :) Very straightforward. I like it.

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Doomkid said:

Looking really classic, just the way a Doom site should :) Very straightforward. I like it.


Thanks. Still needs some sprucing up though and I'd really like to figure out how to separate those two menus.

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Brad_tilf said:

any issues with the java I'm using for the navigation (specifically).

I assume you mean JavaScript rather than Java? Nobody should be using Java on websites nowadays; most browsers don't support it.

You asked about the design of the page, and since you're specifically asking for feedback I have to say that I don't like it. I don't agree that Doom pages ought to look like an old page from the '90s, which is what some seem to be suggesting here. Modern principles of web design are good - they make pages more readable, more useable.

In particular, one example is that it's irritating how you embed the site news inside a frame. This makes the page harder to navigate and the news more difficult to read. In a more general sense there's a lack of clear structure and style to the page. Where does each news post begin? There's no common style or color for section headings. On well-designed websites it's easy to tell this at a glance, without reading anything. Look at the Doomworld front page for example.

It seems like you don't use CSS stylesheets in your HTML code. I think you could make some big improvements just by learning CSS and laying out your page in a more structured way. Maybe if you're feeling lazy just use or adapt an existing style, or use a proper content management system that will do this for you.

I hope this doesn't come across as too harsh; please don't take it personally. You asked for feedback on the page so I've given it; if you're serious about improving the design, hopefully this is helpful to you.

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Modern principles of web design are good - they make pages more readable, more useable.


I think the definition of "modern" is ambiguous. If you're talking last decade I agree. The Doomworld style or something like this are both functional and aesthetically pleasing.

Now on the other hand, if you look at some truly modern websites in gaming:

Yuck.
Ugh!
BLAAAEEEAAAAUUUUGGGH.

All of that stuff is harder to read, harder to navigate, breaks like crazy if you dare not accept a thousand scripts from dubious sources. Just about the only advantage it has over 90s design is it's slightly better visually... somewhat... if you don't mind the garish, shallow plastic toy look and feel.

Of course, there's also recent websites which look decent, but when I think modern the above is what comes to mind. Gigantic tiles, enormous text, faux minimalism bullshit and blog-style locked width.

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fraggle said:

I assume you mean JavaScript rather than Java? Nobody should be using Java on websites nowadays; most browsers don't support it.

You asked about the design of the page, and since you're specifically asking for feedback I have to say that I don't like it. I don't agree that Doom pages ought to look like an old page from the '90s, which is what some seem to be suggesting here. Modern principles of web design are good - they make pages more readable, more useable.

In particular, one example is that it's irritating how you embed the site news inside a frame. This makes the page harder to navigate and the news more difficult to read. In a more general sense there's a lack of clear structure and style to the page. Where does each news post begin? There's no common style or color for section headings. On well-designed websites it's easy to tell this at a glance, without reading anything. Look at the Doomworld front page for example.

It seems like you don't use CSS stylesheets in your HTML code. I think you could make some big improvements just by learning CSS and laying out your page in a more structured way. Maybe if you're feeling lazy just use or adapt an existing style, or use a proper content management system that will do this for you.

I hope this doesn't come across as too harsh; please don't take it personally. You asked for feedback on the page so I've given it; if you're serious about improving the design, hopefully this is helpful to you.


Nope, it's fine. I realize there are definitely "flaws" in the site. I am attempting to address one of the bigger ones right now, which is navigation - which has been difficult, to say the least.

As for the news, I thought keeping it that way would prevent a dozen or more posts with pictures from making the page a mile long. I agree that I should use more consistent ways of posting the titles and separating the posts out - and easy fix, I have no doubt. As I am "almost" finished implementing the java script for navigation - a few pages actually need complete overhauls - notably the Doom 3 central and Quake pages - then I will look at that. I also have reviews to do. :-)

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Agree with you on all three of those sites - not good. I too, prefer and older style appearance and I try not to go overboard on stuff that may not work on some pc's/phones/tablets - etc... because things like flash and such often don't work on smaller devices.

Phml said:

I think the definition of "modern" is ambiguous. If you're talking last decade I agree. The Doomworld style or something like this are both functional and aesthetically pleasing.

Now on the other hand, if you look at some truly modern websites in gaming:

Yuck.
Ugh!
BLAAAEEEAAAAUUUUGGGH.

All of that stuff is harder to read, harder to navigate, breaks like crazy if you dare not accept a thousand scripts from dubious sources. Just about the only advantage it has over 90s design is it's slightly better visually... somewhat... if you don't mind the garish, shallow plastic toy look and feel.

Of course, there's also recent websites which look decent, but when I think modern the above is what comes to mind. Gigantic tiles, enormous text, faux minimalism bullshit and blog-style locked width.

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fraggle said:

In particular, one example is that it's irritating how you embed the site news inside a frame. This makes the page harder to navigate and the news more difficult to read.


Check it out - should be easier to distinguish now. :-)
And, I added search so if you are looking for a particular wad anywhere on the site, you can find it. :-)

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Brad_tilf said:

As for the news, I thought keeping it that way would prevent a dozen or more posts with pictures from making the page a mile long.

The usual solution to this problem is to just move old news to an archive page when the page gets too long. Or use a CMS that just shows the most recent 10 posts for example.

Phml said:

I think the definition of "modern" is ambiguous. If you're talking last decade I agree. The Doomworld style or something like this are both functional and aesthetically pleasing.

Now on the other hand, if you look at some truly modern websites in gaming:

Yuck.
Ugh!
BLAAAEEEAAAAUUUUGGGH.

The Kotaku page doesn't seem too bad. But I agree that these aren't great examples of good website designs. I think these are symptomatic of a different problem though: they seem cluttered with lots of extraneous links, probably because they're trying to attract people to view more articles on the site (more page views = more ad impressions = more revenue for the site), or because they're trying to do SEO tricks to increase their search rankings. Classic example of how things get spoiled once money becomes involved.

What I really meant is that it's good to try to follow a standard layout for websites. Here's an illustration I found from a BBC article that I found from some quick Googling:



It's funny to think about how many websites use this exact layout - eg. Wikipedia, Amazon, Facebook. Sometimes there are slight variations on the formula but it's a popular layout because it works well, and more importantly people are familiar with it. That alone counts for a lot.

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