Going from DiD format to DiH format

[Arclite]

A vast majority of my Doom mapping work is attributed to Skulltag Doom in Doom Format. But after two megawads and experimenting with several of the available techniques in DiD, I feel like I'm limiting my imagination now by holding off on DiH format. (I only make ZDoom based levels).

To elaborate, I'd like to know how easy it is to understand and adapt to all the available DiH techniques (the Argument and Polyobj stuff with linedef actions looked strange) after being a veteran at DiD format.
I've also noted the importance of scripting but it looks rather intimidating and I don't want to spend months just learning how to use it properly, so I'd like to know if that's as hard to learn as I think it is.

(I use Doom Builder 2 and Slade 3, and I'm considering GZDoom Builder now)

[jmickle66666666]

I'm not an expert on zdoom mapping, but Zdoom in Hexen format has been made pretty much obsolete by UDMF format.

[Marnetmar]

UDMF is indeed the way to go. More advanced and much easier to map for.

[Arclite]

Alright I'll have to check this UDMF out, thanks guys

[Cupboard]

Don't lose your pants regarding this. Hexen format is already quite powerful in every single linedef & sector property and can allow ACS scripts.

[Kappes Buur]

I've never been an advocate for suggesting to start out mapping in DiD format.
Sooner or later, what is happening to you now, will happen to every mapper if the
mapping bug bites them.

Since you are going to map for ZDoom, or possibly GZDoom at a later stage, I strongly
recommend to begin mapping for UDMF rather than Hexen format. Otherwise you face
the same hurdle again. While the hurdle from DiH to UDMF is not as great as coming from
DiD, it is a hurdle nevertheless.

That being said, using GZDoom Builder will make the task of learning the ins and outs of
UDMF so much easier than using Doombuilder2. Many of the features of GZDoom Builder are
only available when mapping for UDMF.

To ease yourself into this new mapping path, you should read everything on the
ZDoom Wiki. Use the All Pages listing as a sort of Index to the WIKI.
http://zdoom.org/wiki/Special:AllPages

You will use scripting at some point, so read this easy on the eye and mind tutorial
http://zdoom.org/zdkb/scriptprimer.html

[edit]
I might as well give you a link to the GZDoom Builder download site:
http://devbuilds.drdteam.org/doombuilder2-gzdb/

[Arclite]

Okay things are looking more encouraging, one problem though: When using GZDoom Builder I don't see a UDMF format game configuration when I load a Wad, I do see one in Doom Builder 2 though. But If I'm going to be making 3D floors and what not, I want to use GZDoom Builder.

[Kappes Buur]

These are the configurations supported by GZDoom Builder



You must select the appropriate configuration/s first by ticking them off.
Then highlight each selected configuration and set it/them up.
If you just want UDMF, then tick off UDMF, highlight it and set it up, Resources, Test Program etc.

Then, when you create a new map, the selected configurations show up and select UDMF.



[edit]
When you open an existing pwad, GZDoom Builder is pretty good at determining the format used.
Because there are so many formats I set my GZDB up for the formats seen in the image above.

[Arclite]

Awwww! My bad, I never usually bother to actually fully explore the programs I'm using and find that stuff.
Thank you very much, I can't wait to get started now.

[Kappes Buur]

Arclite said:

....., I never usually bother to actually fully explore the programs I'm using and find that stuff.....

What a strange approach to mapping. If you don't know what GZDoom Builder has to offer,
you might as well just use a sketchpad and some fingerpaint.

If, however, your curiosity is aroused and you want to find out what GZDoom Builder is about,
then visit the improved homepage on ZDoom.org

[Arclite]

It seems relatively similar to Doom Builder 2, though I might get a bit lost/overwhelmed in all of the many minor additions. I'm going to try and get used to creating some basic levels with the new format techniques, then I'll brave the path of scripting.

[Arclite]

Alright I've finally made some progress with scripting; creating fog, colors and level-entry messages. However the most common script I'll be wanting to utilize is messages that appear when you cross a line tag or activate a switch, like "This door doesn't work", but I don't know exactly what this type of script command is, so I can't find it on the ZDoom wiki.

I don't want to turn this into a "so what script command does this and that?", however I'd like to know what the type of script I mentioned above is called.

[Blue Shadow]

These two can be used to print messages on the screen:
Print
HudMessage

[Kappes Buur]

It is invaluable for learning, to load some pwads into Slade3 and study the scripts.
For example:

KdiZd 1.2
Winter's Fury
Paranoid

too many to list. http://zdoom.org/wiki/Category:WADs_created_for_ZDoom

http://zdoom.org/wiki/Action_specials

http://zdoom.org/wiki/ACS_Execute
http://zdoom.org/wiki/Door_Open
http://zdoom.org/wiki/HudMessage
http://zdoom.org/wiki/PrintBold

To test if a door can be opened or not, use a variable:

script 115 (void) //Door to the orange keycard
{
	if (Dooro==1)
	{
	}
	
	else
	{
	hudmessage (s:"Access denied. \nDoor is opened remotely."; 2, 0, CR_GREEN, 0.5, 0.52, 2.0, 0.05, 1.0);
	}
}

You will find that there is a lot of reading involved.

[Arclite]

Okay I've been making some steady progress. 'Been studying some scripts from other Wads, and mostly been viewing some of those tutorial videos on youtube (spawning monsters, skyboxes, etc.) which gave me a good idea of how to accomplish similar things via script. I've also just been using a Script Execute linedef to test out basic actions, such as making a button activation do multiple things, and activating dormant ambient sounds.

Thanks for the help guys, a week ago I was thinking I'd be giving up on using Hexen format/UDMF/ACS. So for now I know about all I need to, but if I end up getting carried away with all the new capabilities I'll probably end up coming back with new questions if I can't figure it out on my own, in which case I'll just make a separate thread.
Thanks again!

[Phendrena]

I'll chuck this one in here as starting a new topic seems silly tbh.

I map for ZDoom normally in DiH format, convince me that UDMF will make my life easier - can I do stuff in UDMF that can not be done using DiH format??? I don't map for GZ so any arguments swaying that way won't convince me :)

Dave

[Kappes Buur]

As I mentioned above, for those new to mapping for G/ZDOOM, it is worthwhile to start with UDMF
and GZDoom Builder as the editor.

For those already entrenched in mapping for ZDoom (DiH) and using Doombuilder2, there are only a
few advantages in switching to UDMF. However, for those, who can tear themselves from using DB2
and start using GZDB, there is definitely a host of advantages for the mapping process.

Open up the list of features on the ZDoom forum stickied GZDB homepage and search for the UDMF
features. That should give you enough information for a decision to switch or not.

http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32392

[Gez]

Phendrena said:

I map for ZDoom normally in DiH format, convince me that UDMF will make my life easier

Many things that require hacky workarounds in Hexen format can be done directly in UDMF. For example, if you need to give an ID to a linedef so as to manipulate it, you need to give it the Line_SetId special in Hexen format, which prevent you from giving it an action special unless you go through a script to change its special after map initialization. Similarly, if you want a translucent line to have a special, you need to do it through line ID and script.

In UDMF, you can assign a line ID as a property, no need to waste the line's special on setting it. Transparency is also a property.

Sector properties can be set directly without having to plop down sector property setters like in Hexen format (WaterZone, ColorSetter, FadeSetter, sound sequence things). This makes it a lot easier when you have a detailed map with a lot of tiny sectors, because you can select all these sectors and set their properties at once instead of having to drop down things in each and every one, then selecting the things and setting the properties in their args.

Phendrena said:

can I do stuff in UDMF that can not be done using DiH format??? I don't map for GZ so any arguments swaying that way won't convince me :)

See the properties you can set on things, lines, sides, and sectors that have no equivalent in Doom or Hexen format.

[Phendrena]

Thanks Gez!

I shall have a nosey at UDMF for a map I'm planning then :)

Dave