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Zulk RS

Has Doom become... Boring?

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Doomkid said:

Yeah I definitely prefer software rendering to OpenGL, no doubt.

Me too! Remember, if you really dislike the blurring effect in OpenGL, you can disable it via Options-Display-OpenGL-Texture Options-Texture Filter Mode "None". Then, sprites AND textures will look pixelated like in software renderer, except with fully 3D view (you can perfectly look up and down with no perspective distortion).

EDIT: 2000th post. :)

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scifista42 said:

Me too! Remember, if you really dislike the blurring effect in OpenGL, you can disable it via Options-Display-OpenGL-Texture Options-Texture Filter Mode "None". Then, sprites AND textures will look pixelated like in software renderer, except with fully 3D view (you can perfectly look up and down with no perspective distortion).

EDIT: 2000th post. :)


I fucking love you man, you just saved my life. I thought all was lost, and you put a light in the world. PIXELS ARE BACK.

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Lycoan said: I believe you are expressing a very common confussion that I would very like to dispell from everyone who reads this, once and for all, so please understand this: Good graphics are NOT heavy graphics. bad graphics are not old graphics.
________________________________________________________________________

I agree with you on this. That's why I said by today's standards. I asked every single one of my friend about Doom and video games in general. This is how it usually goes:

"Does *insert game with old graphics' name here* have 3D? If not, I'm not interested."
"Sorry I don't play games unless they have the best graphics."

Me: How do you define a game with great graphics?
Friend: A game with realistic 3D graphics.

So I just thought that is how most people defined good graphics... Even if it looks like crap (For the record, I asked about 8-15 people. And watched 5-15 more people on the internet expressing similar opinions.)

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Doom's not so much boring as it is occasionally redundant. I've taken multiple breaks from playing the game through the past five... 5? Holy shit.... years including a fairly prolonged one right now. The trick is finding the right wad to re-spark everything when you start to get that itch again.

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Snakes said:

Doom's not so much boring as it is occasionally redundant. I've taken multiple breaks from playing the game through the past five... 5? Holy shit.... years including a fairly prolonged one right now. The trick is finding the right wad to re-spark everything when you start to get that itch again.

Try playing Resurgence. It resparked my interest atleast.

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doomgargoyle said:

Yes, doom is very boring. But thats what Brutal Doom is for, to bring back the fun in doom. :)


Mmm, what's that in the pot you're stirring?

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doomgargoyle said:

Yes, doom is very boring. But thats what Brutal Doom is for, to bring back the fun in doom. :)

Oh come, you are not even trying man!

You could have at least gone into how Doom sucks compared to modern shooters and THEN explain how Brutal Doom is makes Doom more modern and is the way forward for Doom, you had one job damn it!

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mrthejoshmon said:

Oh come, you are not even trying man!

You could have at least gone into how Doom sucks compared to modern shooters and THEN explain how Brutal Doom is makes Doom more modern and is the way forward for Doom, you had one job damn it!


Yea, I know, I wasnt focusing. Ill give it another shot.
Bethesda should stop selling Doom and package Brutal Doom into a full game and sell that instead. That would make doom interesting again. :)

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Bra - vo, sir :)

Re: Op -- I don't agree that Doom has uninteresting monsters and weapons. And I don't agree that Doom has a bad story. Doom's narrative is what I would call "protean", which makes it endlessly fascinating.

I also disagree that Doom has "one-track" gameplay. Modern big-budget games have "multi-track" gameplay, what with all the unlocking and customization and so forth, which is what I assume you mean. (?) But the actual gameplay itself is infinitely more varied and dynamic than basically everything that exists nowadays. The mid-90's were good, and there were a few highpoints since then, but it's all boiling down to a fancy duck hunt as we go along.

And, wait, are we talking iwads here? Because I will agree that I don't find KDITD as engaging as, say, the original Blood. But nothing compares to the world of pwads, in terms of gameplay.

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Patrol1985 said:

Nostalgia plays a big factor. It's nearly impossible to get people who have never played Doom back in its time to play it now.


Unless it's with Brutal Doom and they insist it's The Way Doom Is Meant To Be Played™ (despite never having played Doom without it.)

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I've honestly never found it boring. It's the one main game that has to be loaded onto every new system I get (or after every system wipe) and it was even the game that convinced me to start buying Xbox Live Arcade games.

For me personally, aside from the obvious nostalgia, I feel it's just so well balanced (for the most part). Everything feels right. Granted that may be it more or less being due to being the main shooter I grew up with (and so it may possibly have set the standard in my mind), but there's games that just feel great and where everything fits in place, and games with elements that just never catch on for me.

For instance, I find it mind boggling that people were so obsessed with keeping a game like Halo CE exactly the same for its Anniversary release (one major pet peeve was the god awful Assault Rifle's accuracy and mediocre power - even Bungie acknowledged its unreliable submachine gun behaviour). I've used Doom source ports for over a decade and (also) love a lot of the improved ports Nintendo released over the years (e.g. the Super Mario Advance series). I'm the type of person that likes what many source ports and updated ports have to offer - a more refined and at times arguably cleaned up experience that still manages to retain all the best parts about the original game.

I've routinely fired up Doom and play through in a way that most games won't even allow for these days. When I start an episode in the first game, I find myself finishing it to the end and not hindered by annoying over the top stories or cutscenes - just awesome game play, playable at a pace by which the player can or chooses to play at, and I miss the fact that a lot of games these days don't even bother to try and capture these gaming elements anymore - too much focus on story telling (to the point where it's become intrusive and forced on those who don't care for it).

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Macblain said:

Modern big-budget games have "multi-track" gameplay, what with all the unlocking and customization and so forth, which is what I assume you mean. (?) But the actual gameplay itself is infinitely more varied and dynamic than basically everything that exists nowadays. The mid-90's were good, and there were a few highpoints since then, but it's all boiling down to a fancy duck hunt as we go along.


I remember arguing with a friend a few years ago, about why Doom was still appealing and newer shooters rarely caught my attention. He, of course, knew that it was because Doom had a Satanic aesthetic and was incredibly violent, which I find immensely appealing. I had difficulty in conveying the more subtle attractor beneath: The fact that, without giant linear set pieces full of corpses-to-be, or worse, puzzle driven shooters with unclear objectives, Doom had found a near perfect balance of exploration, atmosphere, combat, maneuverability and art direction.

I've played Gears of War, and while it's fun, it's boring. Horde mode feels old school but it's just a shooting gallery in overly consistent looking maps. Bioshock is fun, but by the third game, shooting had clearly overtaken exploration to the point that it lost much of its edge. Dead Space (the original) was so confusing that I had to use a walkthrough almost immediately into the game, and once I solved the puzzle I got lost again seconds later. I was an avid player of Left 4 Dead 2 for a couple years, but it slowly became stale as I grew tired of the slaughter map mentality of pretty much the entire game. Last night, I watched my cousin play the online-only "Destiny" and was completely unimpressed by everything, especially the generic designs and the underwhelming map layouts.

I know my sentiments are shared by many here. Are we just bitter old fucks who can't stand modern ideas? Or is there really and truly a stagnation in the genre that is more keenly observed by old schoolers?

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If I have one problem with Doom, it's the abstract level design. It didn't use to bother me, even when games like Duke Nukem 3D were wowing everyone with its (then) realistic settings, but the older I get the more it drives me nuts.

I still admire the aesthetic beauty of Romero's maps (and American McGee's for that matter) but I still kind of think Doom deserves to at least look like something. Even the original System Shock -- which came out months after Doom -- managed to resemble a space station.

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scifista42 said:

if you really dislike the blurring effect in OpenGL, you can disable it via Options-Display-OpenGL-Texture Options-Texture Filter Mode "None". Then, sprites AND textures will look pixelated like in software renderer


What?? I just... No, it can't be true. Yes, THIS IS AWESOME THANK YOU!

It's like 3D zDoom! Where have you been all my life?? (The graphics I mean)

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No, I'm totally on the same page with you. I downloaded a trial of the "OnLive" game streaming service, which could be a way for me to play fancy modern games even though the idea of investing money in videogame hardware seems frankly embarrassing at this stage in my life. Everything I played had me screaming with boredom the whole time.

I think games are becoming more of a perishable "Entertainment Product", a sack of audiovisual thingies for the player to pig out on. They seem less and less like games, and more of an interactive art medium. Which is fine and dandy.

In the vein of classics like "A Fork in The Tale" and "Putt-Putt Joins the Parade".

I did wonder if I'm a bitter old fuck, but I think the rise of indie, retro and "casual" gaming is an indication of what people really respond to. There's a bar-arcade in my town, with an awesome golden-age selection. I thought it would peter out after everyone scratched their nostalgia itch. But no! There's a line to get in most weekends! Because these sorts of games are . . . fun!

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I think the main aspect that can draw people nowadays who've never before played Doom into playing it is its newfound accessibility. From shareware to standalones, you can find a version of Doom that suits you. If gory finishing moves are your thing, then Brutal Doom is for you. If you like exploration-fueled survival, then try the classic version. Hell, there are even total conversions of popular media franchises!

I, for one, can say that for me, it was the easiness to find and play Doom that drew me into it. The first time I ever played Doom was on my 2nd Gen iPod Nano (Yes, there's a source port for it. It's included in Rockbox). The game is so versatile that it's difficult to name a post-1993 electronic system that doesn't have some version of Doom available to it. I currently play it on my PSP through a Legacy port, and am currently making mods of my own.

The biggest reason the Doom modding community has survived is because of the game's accessibility. That, and Doom's inherently-brilliant design.

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Doom does get boring, but I keep things fresh by mixing other 90's style games around. My favorites happen to be apart of the Build Engine series. I always come back to Doom after a while of playing those.

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I think doom held up incredibly well. The death animations, sounds, are just satisfying and fun. If anything for me brutal doom made it really boring suddenly. dunno

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Zulk-RS said:

BAD graphics, NO story, Uninteresting monsters and weapons (except a few.), and one-track game-play.
It does have: AWESOME game-play mechanics and AWESOME music.
So, what is it that makes Doom/Doom-II Insanely fun to play even today?


About the monsters, I don't think they are uninteresting. There are so many times in modern FPS that I don't find as diverse and unique monsters as doom. You have the same human enemy, with pistol, with rifle, with shotgun, with bazooka in many modern FPS. Generic human enemy with generic weapon. While in Doom, every monster is not only unique in visuals, but attacks differently, has different pain chance, attitude, etc. So when you learn the monster patterns, you enter a room with two mancubi, three revenants, some imps on ledges, blah blah and you instantly feel like I am gonna first attack those guys, then hide behind that wall then do the other guys, and there are so many unique ways the monster arrangement can make it interesting and changes the way you act. While on many military FPS is the general soldier enemy with different weapons, and boring hide and shoot mechanics.

Ok, maybe it's also nostalgia and I agree with that. Because after years of playing Doom, the way I play is hardwired in my brain, the familiar sounds, familiar way I shoot a shotgun and an imp falls down, or SSG the demons, with all the anims and sounds and mechanics hardwired in my brain, I can't get off this idea from my brain that I can not like doom. Maybe if I never played it in my life and played it now I would feel different about it. The same I feel about Marathon when I try to play it only now.

And then I almost never play the original maps anymore, so many awesomeness from community maps out there. And it never stops, I am amazed that after 20 years so many new maps are released every week (and that's also because the map making of Doom is more simplistic and yet you can still be creative with it. It's more time consuming to do maps for Quake or more modern FPS).

Even the graphics have stuck into me maybe because of Nostalgia. Ok,. the graphics are dated (even if they can evolve with ports, but still) but I never found them bad. I still think that the artistic design of monsters and textures and some of the levels is brilliant. I still believe it, I still would play classic Doom even on original PC and the graphics will not make me puke, but I will adore some of the textures and level design. Only the resolution is out of me, so I prefer 1080p on modern doom (but usually I prefer Zdoom instead of GZdoom, because I like my textures crispy)

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I could hazard that people's idea of good mapping is very dated and dull - even in 2014 we're still mostly seeing tech-bases, brick-bases, MODWALL cities and hell maps. at least we've moved on from silver spaceships? of course, that's what the stock textures are geared towards designing, (take a look at most custom textures and you'll notice they usually fortify existing themes - BTSX-style setting building is rare) but look at the work of TimeOfDeath and mouldy and you'll realize that the D2 themes barely scratch the surface of what's possible. if I could click my fingers and summon a megaWAD of primitive island settlement maps, Ultima Underworld-shaped dungeon maps with rivers running through them, or simply a bunch of abstract The Pit-esque maps then that's what I'd wish for... don't make me suffer another lunar installation! =P

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