Runninn and gunnin wads

[xxbio Warfare11]

Just a quick question, For a while ive been looking for some wads that are strictly action oriented not so many puzzles. Ive played several wads Such as Mori 1 and 2, Scythe, AV, Deus vault 1 and 2, Reveire, Tei Tenga,LOS, mars war. Ive played more but these are just ones Iv'e played recntly. But just today I ran through one of my now favorite wads titled Redemption, the Ultimate Doom E1 replacement. That wad had me just running through blasting and through hell-spawn the whole time and it wasn't a huge beautiful map set either they were fairly average looking but focused more on game play with out the whole Hexen feel of finding lots of switches and not knowing what they do. Just beautiful classic doom action all the way through.

Are there any other wads that have that feel and epicness?

[Cupboard]

You'll like this, as long as you don't mind back-tracking, which I presume you don't if you played dv.wad, etc.

http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?file=levels/doom2/Ports/g-i/ic2005.zip

[xxbio Warfare11]

non stop action. may not be classic doom feel, more like quake not just cause of textures. but wow, awesome and fast paced thank you for the recommendation.

[Cupboard]

I don't think IC_2005 is at all like Quake. Quake rarely went over 90 monsters per map. IC_20005 presents some strategically placed monsters without relying on copy paste hordes to make the player pay the piper. There are some texture misalignments but by and large the gameplay is a solid run and gun Doom smash-up. Anyway. I'm sure other people will have great suggestions as well. ;)

[xxbio Warfare11]

Sorry you're right totally not like quake I meant quake two. Not the whole map but like some parts like certain environments like battling in that silo after you get past the cyber demon and hell nights+revenants. And of course the entire quake themed room with the electric fences haha. But no the gameplay is very solid very fun. Got hooked when your first weapon was the chainsaw and just running cutting down imps and zombies. Amazing enemy placement I agree. I was mainly talking about the scenery and stuff was Quake like and didn't totally feel like a regular doom

[40oz]

I think I know what you mean. Some wads have a sort of gameplay where the monster quantity, and density is high, but the challenge isn't very high because its offset by powerful weapons, lots of ammo, armor and health resources, and plenty space to move. But in general its a lot like the game play of Dooms Knee Deep in the Dead episode only it utilizes higher tier monsters and weapons too. Youre kinda just casually blasting monsters as you quickly blaze through each map. It certainly helps sharpen your movement and reaction time skills with various monsters without the punishment of death if you make an error here and there. Its good training if you need more doom experience.

I've had my best experience with that kinda gameplay with automatically generated megawads like Slige and Oblige, but I also found Hell To Pay to have a similar vibe throughout most of the maps too. Many early 90s maps and megawads that weren't made my the higher profile mappers of the time offer that kinda gameplay too.

I'm sure there are more, but that particular genre of gameplay is kind of a blur as there isn't really anything significantly noticeable about it, and these days it sort of resembles untested, uninspired, or boring gameplay, as the complexity of deadly traps that restrict the player from running away and use highly damaging monsters is rare. At times I endure three or four maps in a row with that kinda gameplay without even realizing it, but that's a quality that prevents maps from being memorable.

[joe-ilya]

It's a self-promotion but I did it a "run and gun" gameplay, but apperently people don't like it because there's almost no cover. But it's fine to have small cover because you gotta run(and gun)
http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?file=levels/doom2/megawads/1024abc.zip

[Steve D]

40oz said:

I'm sure there are more, but that particular genre of gameplay is kind of a blur as there isn't really anything significantly noticeable about it, and these days it sort of resembles untested, uninspired, or boring gameplay, as the complexity of deadly traps that restrict the player from running away and use highly damaging monsters is rare. At times I endure three or four maps in a row with that kinda gameplay without even realizing it, but that's a quality that prevents maps from being memorable.

I can sympathize with your views, but then again, I'm a '90s guy and I like '90s-style action. The problem with going the other way -- deadly traps you can't escape from -- is that you can end up with overly linear, trappy maps that turn into one Hamburger Hill after another. Like anything else, this can get boring.

An advantage of run 'n gun maps is how flowy they can be, because finding different ways to attack an area is fun in a strategic way. Run 'n gun maps should also, ideally, have a lot of hitscanners to deal instant damage and possibly death -- I think so, anyway. A run 'n gun map can also have its difficulty increased by steady reduction of health and possibly ammo in the testing phase, though one has to be careful to avoid forcing overly cautious play. I personally tend to make maps a little too easy in their first beta, but after watching FDAs, livestreams and reading comments, I ratchet things up. In this regard, it's very helpful to have a tester who is willing to do multiple runs through a map, and who is also willing to bitch at you to make the map more exciting.

Of course, I've never played one of your maps, 40oz, so I'll have to check one out to see what your approach is.

I downloaded Redemption and had a lot of fun in E1M1, even getting killed once when I foolishly charged an area well-guarded by a Sergeant. Doing a casual, continuous playthrough, I quickly discovered that I'd need to pistol-start each map, because I found E1M2 quite easy and dull except for the forced nukage run, which punishes the player for lack of foreknowledge. Door-camping possibilities abounded, which is a killer for maps of this type. I'll pistol-start E1M3 once I get a bit more time.

[purist]

I was looking forward to Steve D finding this thread :-)

I also agree that run and gun gameplay can be done without being amateurish and that they avoid some of the aspects of PWAD gameplay I don't enjoy like stop-start meta battles and HP grinds.

[Steve D]

^^This was inevitable, assuming I saw it in time. Oh, so busy lately.

Natch, you seem to have an affinity for running and gunning yourself. ;)

[purist]

A growing one, yes. Visions of Hell will have a lot of runnin and gunnin when it's done. There's nothing like some open space, a chaingun and a bunch of zombies to waste :-)

During some parts of the mapping, I've built an area, put the THINGS in and thought: SteveD will like this bit ;-)

[joe-ilya]

Icarus is fast paced and looks quake two-ish.

[scifista42]

Try Judgment Day, a recent 4-map set.

[40oz]

I'm not averse to the run-n-gun gameplay, in fact I too like it very much. I like how it kinda simulates the feeling of being a speedrunner, seeing how quickly you can clear out rooms and push onward to the next, even though the completion time may suck and actual speedrunning can be a long and grueling process.

I'm just speaking from experience, as I've had counter-cultural feelings against the tropes of modern map design, I went ahead and created maps that were so far in that direction, with tons of light troops, ammunition, space to move, and non-linear open-world layouts, that the majority of its players outside the internal playtesting team found it to be monotonous, dragged out, lacking direction, etc.

At times, the player simply needs to be told what to do, and if that means locking him up in a room with a single source of adversaries and a clear goal to escape, then thats what you'll need from time to time so that the player can realize a sense of progress. I guess in the end it's best to know the differences in both styles, and how to correctly deliver those experiences. Without blending them together, separate them into distinct sections of the map to have the best of both worlds.