Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Patrol1985

Tom Hall and video game violence

Recommended Posts

I remember Tom Hall opposing the idea of violent shooters - allegedly one of the reasons he wasn't ok with the rest of id Software team.

Having recently finished Rise of the Triad (the old one) and Extreme Rise of the Triad** I felt compelled to bring up the subject. Tom was the designer of this game and in the violence department I believe it is second to none by 1994/1995's standards.

Blood splattering on walls, eyeballs flying in front of the screen, "ludicrous gibs", burning people alive, shooting guys who seemingly want to give up and raise their hands - all within the game.

So can anyone explain it to me? How can a person not so eager on violence in Doom create a game which is probably even more filled with blood and guts?

I have nothing against it, in fact it provided me with lots of fun, but I'm just puzzled.

**seriously, avoid this expansion... I managed to finish all of the levels, but they make "Thy Flesh Consumed" look like child's play... and not in this "cool and challenging way". It gave me more frustration than enjoyment and I wanted to complete it solely to satisfy my ambition, but I wouldn't exactly call it entertaining.

Share this post


Link to post
Patrol1985 said:

So can anyone explain it to me? How can a person not so eager on violence in Doom create a game which is probably even more filled with blood and guts?


Kinda like the most successful anti-war films actually contain some of the more realistic and grotesque depictions of war?

Share this post


Link to post
Maes said:

Kinda like the most successful anti-war films actually contain some of the more realistic and grotesque depictions of war?


But violence in such movies serves a purpose - it's supposed to show the atrocities of war.

It's different with video games, "Rise of the Triad" had no hidden messages, Tom could have easily made a game where you shoot robots or something, but he went with gore despite his dislike for it

Share this post


Link to post

Could be....

  • ...that the inclusion or not of gore was not his call
  • ...that exactly because of his dislike for it, he included it and made it deliberately over the top
  • ...that he forced himself to like it based on sheer willpower, and decided to go full-force with it.

Share this post


Link to post

I was always under the impression he was more saddened that he couldn't keep working on commander keen or focus on games aimed at kids once id started working with 3d rather then a particular dislike of violence.

Share this post


Link to post
Captain Red said:

I was always under the impression he was more saddened that he couldn't keep working on commander keen or focus on games aimed at kids once id started working with 3d rather then a particular dislike of violence.


I had the same impression, but I drew a conclusion that he hated violence. Perhaps I was mistaken. Still, RoTT is definitely not aimed at kids, but perhaps he got an assignment along the lines of "make a Doom clone", so he did. I know there were plans for RoTT to be a sequel of Wolfenstein 3D at first.

Share this post


Link to post

I think it was more the case that he wanted to make a 'fun' game as opposed to the serious Doom/Quake style. ROTT may be violent but it is silly and fun. I think that is closer to what he wanted to work on. Traditional 2D games didn't have a great market at that time so ROTT was probably a fair compromise between silly platformer and OTT antics in 3D. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Average said:

I think it was more the case that he wanted to make a 'fun' game as opposed to the serious Doom/Quake style. ROTT may be violent but it is silly and fun. I think that is closer to what he wanted to work on. Traditional 2D games didn't have a great market at that time so ROTT was probably a fair compromise between silly platformer and OTT antics in 3D. :)


That sounds very reasonably. RoTT is equally a shooter as it is a platformer and its absurdity keeps it far away from the "serious" territory. I mean, look at the plot: a film producer working for some cult and willing to blow up Los Angeles? Really? :D

Share this post


Link to post

That's a popular misconception. I too thought he had nauseating feelings towards depictions of blood and gore, but I've read in interviews that he stated that wasn't the issue. It was that since wolf3d, their work was gravitating towards more realistic and complex themes, instead of the comical and fantasy nature of what they started with. It says in the masters of doom that John Romero and Tom hall had a tight friendship complete with their own alien language made from beeps and burps, and whatever. The subtle humor, parodies and satire you'll see in previous games seemed to disappear once id software was less of a small time video game programming club and more of a business, and his motivation started to dwindle as a result as he was becoming more unhappy with the environment he was working in, resulting in his eventual termination from the company.

fortunately there aren't any ill feelings between Romero and Hall, they seem to be living separate lives but still keep in touch and all.

I kinda agree with Tom Halls philosophy, especially since gaming has steered so far in the direction of realism, I feel video game designers joking around and toying with their audience is pretty close to nonexistent these days.

Share this post


Link to post
40oz said:

I kinda agree with Tom Halls philosophy, especially since gaming has steered so far in the direction of realism, I feel video game designers joking around and toying with their audience is pretty close to nonexistent these days.


The race for "maturity" in games always seemed childish to me, mostly because "mature" themes in games are what a 12-year-old deems to be "mature" and not actual maturity.

and answer your damn pms!

Share this post


Link to post

If I remember correctly the team at Id had made a deal with each other that once Doom was finished they'd make another lighter game. I think it was the fact that that deal was broken and Hall's growing feeling of isolation (he was obviously in a different creative mindset) within the company that broke the camel's back.

Shame really because maybe they could've compromised with a little more communication and then perhaps ROTT could've been made in what became the Quake engine... It would be interesting to see where the FPS genre would've gone from there...

Share this post


Link to post
40oz said:

I kinda agree with Tom Halls philosophy, especially since gaming has steered so far in the direction of realism, I feel video game designers joking around and toying with their audience is pretty close to nonexistent these days.

i personally think that a light-hearted game, or any kind of medium, really, with dwells of mature themes in it, tend to work better and feel much more mature, ironically, than something that tries to be super-serious while at times shoe-horning in low-brow humour into it. the former usually has a much more pleasant atmosphere overall while the latter just makes me shrug in disbelief.

Share this post


Link to post
Clonehunter said:

I still waiting for the next Keen game.

I wish id/Zenimax would sell/give the Keen IP to Tom since they clearly have no intention of doing anything new with it. Even if they keep ownership of the IP, it'd be nice if they licensed it out to him to do an official 3rd party game (similar to Ancient/Aspect/Traveller's Tales/Dimps having developed officially licensed Sonic games).

Share this post


Link to post

Patrol1985 said:
So can anyone explain it to me? How can a person not so eager on violence in Doom create a game which is probably even more filled with blood and guts?

That assumes Tom Hall has always had the same opinion on violence in games.

Even back when he made ROTT, the game was a parody of violent games and fiction. He probably already preferred less violence-oriented games but felt inclined to make an FPS because he felt that was were the gaming trend was. Another possibility (or factor) is that he needed to vindicate his view of how DOOM might have been, in some respects, had he not been displaced from id.

Share this post


Link to post

Though this is a bit dated, Tom Hall has been working on Worlds Of Wander, a platform game building engine for mobile devices. I'm not sure if it's yielded much progress though, as last time I talked to him on my interview with him for WXR, he didn't have much to say about other than its kickstarter wasn't very successful, and that he's a bit more focused on the revenue-generating part of his career. So generally he'll only really come back to it when he's in a generours state of financial stability and an abundance of time.

Share this post


Link to post

Maybe Tom has soften his stance compared to 20 years ago? We do as humans have a tendency to change opinions as years go on, tom must not be any different.

Share this post


Link to post
Patrol1985 said:

"Rise of the Triad" had no hidden messages


Speaking about hidden messages, who here remembers the message that poped up when you set your screen to the smallest res possible :)

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×