Joe-Ilya : Lost maps Now on IDgames w/ low rating

[Reisal]

It's been a while but I will have a run through the WAD to see the rest of the maps.

[joe-ilya]

The next maps should be good, except MAP15.

[Olroda]

Something positive about the maps:

There's plenty of "interaction" taking place. Lifts, stairs raising, doors, walls lowering, switches, et cetera.

I'd say that an interactive map can be more interesting than one that isn't...

[joe-ilya]

http://secure.twitch.tv/tarnsmandw/b/584024090
Any idea where's part 1?

[Kotzugi]

Here's the first part of a short review of the maps from the perspective of a regular player (non-mapper). So far, it's really not so bad, although I have my points of critique as well. I haven't done any pistol starts so I won't comment on good/realistic they are.

Map 1: Arenas

Bunch of rooms with unmemorable fights. Textures didn't bother me. Like the music. I got stuck in the teleporter to the barons, had to idclip there. The shoot-the-button idea was unimpressive - I used up all my bullets. Cyberdemon fight could have been more interesting - it's basically just a sort-of interesting looking room. Could have thrown in a bit more monsters there or introduced some interesting mechanic to make the fight interesting (e.g. teleports). The biggest issue was the lack of interactivity between the rooms, there is zero flow. Also, the "wrong" teleporter at the end leading you back to the starting room is just a dick move and serves no purpose since you basically have to guess the right one.

Map 2: Nuclear Plant

Enjoyed it a lot more. Good use of the space provided, a little cramped but not too much. Not just all squares or circles which is a good thing. Some interesting gimmicks such as having to step on a platform to open the access to the final area. The combat is quite easy, but at the level expected here. I got the feeling that obtaining the SSG in the first map was too soon. However, I found myself switching to the normal shotgun in order to save ammo, so it's all good. Didn't like the music.

Map 3: Underzone

This one was also fun. The chaingun secret was pretty sweet, although not hard to find. I don't know why the blue key location was also treated as some kind of secret. Combat was engaging, again not hard but I liked it. Rooms are much more interesting but the gameplay is again very linear most of the time. For some reason it took me a while to figure out that I can just push those vertical bars to open them in the end. Unless I have something nice to say about the music I won't say anything now.

Map 4: Plains

Whoa, what's up with this much increased difficulty? I think it's a bit much for this stage of the game, but I still like the level somewhat. Nothing much to think about apart from dodging archviles and revenants - just run around, ride those elevators and go nuts.

Map 5: Underzone 2
Fairly unremarkable factory level. I felt a little too cramped. At least it doesn't play that linear. I couldn't figure out how to get the red key (I don't know what the button does) but I actually found all four secrets.

Map 6: Ungreetings
Again just a little too cramped for my taste. Playtesting must have been non-existent. It's already been pointed out that there are a stuck baron and spectre in the library area. I also found a HOM just behind the first door of the map. Not too hard. Some textures seemed out of place. I get the feeling it could have been better planned (and bigger). But OK map I guess. Music's good.

Map 7: Flesh Flush
Worst possible start to a map ever. A shotgunner blocks your way downwards and while you're stuck there he shoots you, joined by a caco or two. I almost died even though I started the map with full health. The rest is quite easy and frankly doesn't look that bad.

Map 8: Go Control It
OK tech base style map. Also pretty linear though, and the combination and placement of textures bothered me again. If I had the patience I would make some screen shots. The final battle can catch you off guard a little, rocket launcher makes short work of it though.

[NuMetalManiak]

okay I played through the whole thing sometime ago and submitted a review. I wanted to continue my level-by-level thingie but decided against it.

all I can say is that MAP10, MAP15, and the Icon level were the worst. having collaborated with 40oz before on your Plutinya map, I really hope you actually are taking advice and such from testers, whether positive or negative, and learning from it.

[joe-ilya]

Check out the sequel development : http://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/70859-lost-maps-again/

[Kotzugi]

Map 9: Non-Organic Processing
Lol'd at the Minecraft tree. Textures didn't clash that much anymore in my opinion. The room with the key and the shifting blocks was annoying. Weird buttons towards the end, was that intentional? A really short level, nothing really impressive. I think it could have used at least one big room/fight, something that stands out.

Map 10: Gotcha!
Cool map! Joe continues that weird sharp-edged room thing and ample use of mismatching textures, but this Gotcha! inspired map has some interesting moments. It felt quite satisfying to find the buttons to raise those bridges in the main room and let the cybies and spideys have a go at each other. One odd thing happened though and that is the fact that the lift between the two platforms on which they stand once lifted up a cyberdemon standing on it, and the cybie first got stuck, then, as the lift went down, simply stayed in the air. I should really start to take screen shots. The rest of the map was all right, again quite linear until the final room which has a bunch of doors through which you must go to push buttons for the exit to activate. A huge helping of cells enabled me to go at it leasurely with the plasma gun and/or BFG.

Map 11: 100 Lines Logo
Hairy start, I'm not sure it would be fair for a pistol start in any case. Took me a while to figure out what to do - at first it didn't seem possible to drop down into the cage with chaingunners so for a while I assumed there was nothing down there. Weird use of textures again, also the whole map is just one room. For me the most unsatisfying map since the first one.

Map 12: Toxic Refinery
Graphics and textures didn't bother me, I thought they were relatively consistent. However, I started with around 35% health and 0% armor and struggled a bit because of a lack of power ups during the first half or so of the map. I was lucky to have had access to the plasma gun, BFG and rocket launcher, with only the SSG I think it might be a little hard for the unprepared player. Decent map.

Map 13: Highway 71
Slaughterish kind of affair, it's not bad but those monsters popping up through the ground is kinda dickish in my opinion. Short but decent.

Map 14: Ghost Town 2
Another decent map. However, to get outside from the first room, you have to take an elevator, run around a ledge and push a button to make another elevator with a revenant come down, which takes only about a few seconds before it goes up again - if you miss that, you have to take that first elevator again, etc. That was pretty annoying. After that, you're surrounded by a couple of buildings with chaingunners, cacos and pinkies harassing you - nothing too hard though. Nothing stands out here though - a little short perhaps. The exit trap was a little annoying as well.

Map 15: Uptown
A pretty cool Downtownesque map. It's huge and must have taken ages to build. Looks quite nice and there's plenty going on. However, it's quite hard, and you need to know the layout to finish it quickly. If you don't mind a little exploring though, and you're not the kind of person who pulls hair out of your head whenever you play Downtown, there's nothing much wrong with it. I saw the sign for the secret exit but couldn't figure it out, so idclev'd to 31. The music is nice, if a little on the sad/pensive side.

Map 31: The Weapon
Suddenly, we're in deep space, and you're thrown into the action from the start. You get the power weapons from the start as well as a supercharge, so the toughness factor is reduced. However it's very short and you exit as soon as you're about to grab a BFG. I suppose it's part of the storyline but having idclev'd to this map with the resulting pistol start it sucks a little. The map is completely linear but looks OK otherwise.

Map 16: Computer Base
You're confronted with a platform on which the BFG (or at least, A BFG) lies. Probably a secret, which I didn't figure out. The starting area is nothing much to write about, your run-of-the-mill tech basey stuff. You eventually end up in an outdoor area which is much harder. Finally, you need to do some platform jumping/skipping in order to activate the final exit. You drop into a hole which may be blocked, which is a little annoying. Also, an arch vile is waiting, but you can skip ahead to the exit without killing it. OK map.

[Kotzugi]

Map 17: Between Times
Another sort of mini city-style map where, strangely, mostly only ammo boxes abound. At least you get a chaingun quite early on. This map isn't bad: solutions are not always straight-forward, and although it's strictly linear in terms of a route you get to re-visit previous areas with new monsters popping up most of the time. The maze-like area was a bit annoying, since it was too long and repetitive in my opinion. All in all though, quite decent.

Map 18: The Clash
The start of the map is basically a hub with color doors for which you have to find keys. I found a really cool secret here, which I think is also necessary for the rest of the map. Much of the map is shrouded in darkness, which makes things a little hard here and there. Some interesting fights, but most of it is straight-forward. OK map.

Map 19: Another Nuclear Plant
It's a big round room. OK, surrounded by little corridors and stuff. Nothing remarkable. I suppose it looks a bit nucleary. No remarkable battles. Texturing looks fine.

Map 20: Another Nuclear Plant
Yep. Another one. Another industrial type map with some interesting mechanics. Doesn't look that bad actually. Combat though has again a low profile.

Map 21: Surrounded
The boss map. Relatively ordinary, but has an interesting mechanism that I haven't seen before.

Map 22: The End?
I don't know what this is. Seconds in, and the map is finished. Map view says "Epic win!". I suppose it's something like a reward after beating the boss.

Map 23: Barrels o' Fun. Except this map is called "The End!".

Map 24: The Chasm. Except this map is called "Still here?". Clever.

It was somewhat fun, and also challenging at times. :) Something interesting I observed was that bridge under which you can walk through. Don't know how that works. A few shockers among the maps, but mostly quite playable. I'll give it 6 out of 10.

[raymoohawk]

storted playing... with the rainbowdash hud :-)

[Xegethra]

Kotzugi said:

Map 17: Between Times
Something interesting I observed was that bridge under which you can walk through. Don't know how that works.

Some source ports allow for 3d floors, and some editors let you build them, such as GZDoom Builder.

I don't know how he built these maps, I haven't tried them. I'm not sure if scripting can make 3d floors. I only really know of the one way to do it in GZDoom Builder.

[Magnusblitz]

The bridge should work in vanilla - the visible part of the bridge is just floating mid textures, the sector is otherwise invisible (an effect created with self-referencing sectors), and lowers when the player approaches it from the ground floor but raises when the player approaches it from the upper level. You can test this by jumping "onto" the bridge diagonally from the water, it won't hit the 'raise' trigger and you'll fall right through it.

[Kotzugi]

Thanks Xegethra and Magnusblitz for your explanations on the bridge effect.

[Xegethra]

Magnusblitz said:

The bridge should work in vanilla - the visible part of the bridge is just floating mid textures, the sector is otherwise invisible (an effect created with self-referencing sectors), and lowers when the player approaches it from the ground floor but raises when the player approaches it from the upper level. You can test this by jumping "onto" the bridge diagonally from the water, it won't hit the 'raise' trigger and you'll fall right through it.

Ahh that's a method I have never come across before....sounds pretty cool!

[joe-ilya]

raymoohawk said:

storted playing... with the rainbowdash hud :-)

Cool! How is it? Can you fix something for me in the hud?

[Suitepee]

http://www.twitch.tv/johnsuitepee/c/5510416 = my playthrough of the whole thing, pistol starting each map.

1 out of 5, and so far the worst megawad I've played. The Clash was the only good map in the entire 23-map set, with The Weapon (secret map) being a close second.

It seems joe-ilya is good at making intense starting encounters and making basic stuff work, and can potentially make a good map.

But most of this was either meh or awkward as heck, and Uptown was by far the worst map of this collection by a mile. I suggest joe-ilya stay away from making maps like that until he can make them work properly. The Icon of Sin fight was somewhat interesting (attack voodoo doll to get rocket launcher), but like most IoS fights I've encountered was lacking and easy once the trick was worked out.

My curiousity with joe-ilya is now finally sated, and I shall not be eagerly awaiting any more of his creations until some significant improvement and quality control occurs. Because it seems joe-ilya has the potential to be a good mapper, he just needs to take on board the criticism and use it to make better maps!

[Toxie Rocks]

So I've been playing through this and have to say, I like it so far. There are flaws, no doubt, and we can get to that later on. In general, though, I find your maps to be unique and highly playable. In the future I'll post more in-depth reviews (including criticism).

One thing I had to comment on, which I see no one in this thread has, is the midi you use in map 10. It's "Operation Rescue" by Bad Religion! Thumbs up for the killer musical taste, man. Two things, though. Firstly, you should provide credit to the band. Secondly, while the song is great, I'm not sure that short, repetitive songs are really suited for Doom. The player will hear the song loop many times in all but the shortest levels. Maybe a medley of BR songs would work better. I also recognize map 09's music as a BR song, but couldn't place which one. Please let me know what it is before it drives me crazy.

One last thing. Here's a screen I took in map 10:



You said you don't care about visuals, but details like this seem to show otherwise. Some no doubt hate this kind of thing, but I think it shows a sort of quirky design sensibility.

[joe-ilya]

Toxie Rocks said:

[img]http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/db3a/d2w4128rrmo4xj0fg.jpg[img]

You said you don't care about visuals, but details like this seem to show otherwise. Some no doubt hate this kind of thing, but I think it shows a sort of quirky design sensibility.

MAP10 was made 2 years ago... and I was very experimental back then, more then usual.

List of MIDIs
MAP01 : D_COUNTD from Freedoom2
MAP02 : Bad religion - Punk rock song
MAP03 : A remix of the batman theme
MAP04 : D_RUNNIN from TNT
MAP05 : D_STWIN from Skulltag
MAP06 : The halloween theme
MAP07 : A remix of D_E1M1
MAP08 : D_DOOM2 from Hell revealed 2
MAP09 : Bad religion - leave mine to me
MAP10 : Bad religion - operation rescue
MAP11 : Green day - Castaway
MAP12 : Screeching weasel - holy hardcore
MAP13 : Pantera - I can't hide
MAP14 : Down - ghosts along the mississippi
MAP15 : Alice in chains - Rotten apple
MAP31 : D_RUNNIN from community chest 4
MAP16 : Weezer - buddy holly
MAP17 : D_DDTBLU from community chest 4
MAP18 : The clash - london calling
MAP19 : Falco - Der Kommissar
MAP20 : Stone temple pilots - plush
MAP21 : Pantera - 5 minutes alone
MAP22 : Green day - burnout
Title theme : Green day - burnout
Intermission theme : Green day - burnout
Text theme : The offspring - Disclaimer

All the MIDIs that don't mention where they're from are from http://midimelody.ru/ (Down at the moment)