The "new" generation and Doom

[Guest Unregistered account]

I don't know what I expected this to be.

So, we all know that everyone's view of child gamers today is as idiots who will scream down the end of their microphone and/or accuse someone for hacking because they lost/etc.
And we all know that if they do find an interest in Doom, it's usually because of Brutal Doom.

But, there are many children who play Doom. I, for example, am 13. And there are a ton of 15 year olds on the forums.

So, discuss: this generation and Doom.

[Vs1991]

This generation probly will know of Doom. BFG edition came with 1 and 2. They proby tried it atleast but I doubt many of them liked it. Like you said most ppl will get into it cause of Brutal Doom. Kids will love the new Doom if what ppl are saying about it is true.

I got an 8 month old son and I sure as hell am gonna try to get him into Classic Doom when he's older

[Doominator2]

Unfortunately if you ask the kid down the block about doom, he will almost always have no idea of what you are talking about. The reason being is that doom has not had a proper release in a while, and the games are not being talked about on mainstream gaming sights too often, if a kid today saw a copy of doom 3 he would likely to be like "cool why not play a bit" and play for a bit and forget about it. I once even played a death match with an adult once and he asked me how to use frags lol. It's great that kids like you respect retro games in general and give them a chance, but not many children today are willing to play even a sixth generation game.

[Quast]

Joe667 said:

So, we all know that everyone's view of child gamers today is as idiots who will scream down the end of their microphone and/or accuse someone for hacking because they lost/etc.

We do? This behavior has been happening forever and a day. It is not new, novel nor interesting.

[Doomkid]

Doominator2 said:

I once even played a death match with an adult once and he asked me how to use frags lol.

Oh christ, that's fucking cringeworthy. However, it proves an excellent point: Retarded bandwagon riders (EDIT: I'm talking about people who hate old games just because they're old, people who spout negative crap about a game they aren't familar with, NOT newbies! I thought the guy Doominator2 was talking about said said Doom was bad while simultaneously asking how to "use frags", that was why I called it cringeworthy.. Whoops. I need to learn to read. But anyway) bandwagon riders come in all ages and have been around in all generations. You can get a 32 year old going on about how Xbox One is the "best console of all time" - which is the fucking dumbest shit I've ever heard - and you can get 12 year olds who love Doom/SNES/Genesis/all the other classics. My buddy Alex is turning 20 soon and his little brother is 13, me and Alex used to deathmatch every day a year or so back, but now it's really only his little brother who continues to play now that I've moved away.

In 2002 I made my first step into the online community at the wee age of 9, going on 10. I loved the then-current gen (N64/Gamecube/PS2) but hadn't stopped playing Doom after several years. Now here I am, nearly 22, playing this old game 2 decades, and it's still my goddamn favorite.

Anyway, I'm ranting more than I intended to. Anyone who truly loves FPS (ie, won't grown out of it in 3 or 4 years) will inherently find some enjoyment in Doom, no matter what year it is.

Edit: Modified my post. I mean people following a trend for the sake of following a trend, and the OP is about people disliking Doom for that reason - they want to be trendy. It has nothing to do with newbies stumbling across the game.

[DeathevokatioN]

I think it's really cool to see so many children playing DooM and who are passionate about it... it means that this game is going to be preserved for a lot longer.

[FireFish]

Doomkid said:

Oh christ, that's fucking cringeworthy. However, it proves an excellent point: Retarded bandwagon riders (n00bs, as some know them) come in all ages and have been around in all generations. You can get a 32 year old going on about how Xbox One is the "best console of all time" - which is the fucking dumbest shit I've ever heard - and you can get 12 year olds who love Doom/SNES/Genesis/all the other classics.

Anyway, I'm ranting more than I intended to. Anyone who truly loves FPS (ie, won't grown out of it in 3 or 4 years) will inherently find some enjoyment in Doom, no matter what year it is.

I find it funny that you call new players with litle knowledge about a game they just started to play 'retarded bandwagon players', and that you use the word NooB like the
actual retards of gaming use it. an insult to anybody worse at a game then they are. anybody who truly loves FPS will chose for themselves if they like doom or not.
Many do not like it, many do. They have a name for a player base actively insulting and destroying new players ; poisonous gamers in poisonous comunities, and elitists.

The new generation will play games which are relevant to their generation and gaming hobbies. Some will start to like retro games while others will hold on to a
game of their generation until it becomes retro itself. They will have their own classic games to play 20 years from now.

[Maes]

Some random modern kid said:

Doom you say? Wasn't it that retro game which ran on every toaster and microwave in the 70s?

[Guest Unregistered account]

Vs1991 said:

I got an 8 month old son and I sure as hell am gonna try to get him into Classic Doom when he's older

That's a great idea! Hope he likes it.

[purist]

How welcoming to new players it is to snidely call players unfamiliar with the mechanics of the game Noobs and bandwagonning retards! I suppose you should research a game to be fully armed with all the facts before deciding to play.

[Humanity]

I agree with purist, just because you are inexperienced with how a game work's and how you should play it doesn't mean you're stupid. And what's with all of these nostalgia goggle donning people complaining about todays day and age? It's fine to have an opinion, but don't just go around calling people dumb or stupid for playing games in their generation or shoving doom down people's throats.

FireFish said:

They will have their own classic games to play 20 years from now.

By the time this happens, Doom will look like an Atari game compared to the next, next, generations games heh.

[RUSH]

Doom will forever be viewed as some old DOS first person shooter that was "super revolutionary and stuff but soooo old now" to most people. Sure, it gathers some interest from Brutal Doom but that's a very small minority of individuals when you look at the big picture. Most don't realize there are source ports to add 60 fps, mouse look, improved graphics etc. Even less know or care about modding/mapping.

I mean of course there will always be some younger folks who can appreciate the game but let's be honest - that's becoming a rarity these days. Doom loses hands down to all the mindless recent FPS because "omfg look at those graphics!" Kids have such a short attention span that nothing can beat the immediate impact of something like Titanfall, Battlefield, Call of Duty etc. People want a roller coaster ride; something flashy and exciting. Doom is a masterpiece but in none of the ways people find entertaining today. I doubt that will change.

[Maes]

RUSH said:

Kids have such a short attention span that nothing can beat the immediate impact of something like Titanfall, Battlefield, Call of Duty etc. People want a roller coaster ride; something flashy and exciting. Doom is a masterpiece but in none of the ways people find entertaining today. I doubt that will change.

Maybe we should set up something like a Monastery of Doom, where young men will be isolated from the corrupting influence of the world, live in cells with a 486 computer, no Internet, and required to study Doom and Doom 2? Excerpts from the Doom wiki, the Official Doom FAQ v6.666 and the Source Code itself could be used as sacred texts.

All the activities in the Monastery of Doom will have to do with Doom in some form, either playing, mapping, or even coding/developing source ports and tools.

Only in that way will The Legacy of Doom get preserved in the way it truly deserves.

[RUSH]

Maes said:

Maybe we should set up something like a Monastery of Doom, where young men will be isolated from the corrupting influence of the world

As long as there are no perverted priests in said monastery. That would be blasphemous to the great Crucified Cyber-Caco:

[Maes]

RUSH said:

That would be blasphemous to the great Crucified Cyber-Caco

However, fisting it would be a necessary rite-of-passage for initiates. Or a privilege, I'm not sure. Then again, if that was the intention, it would be crucified butt-out....ARGHHH!! I'm so confused :-(

[40oz]

Well, the anonymity of the internet keeps me from establishing any concrete opinions between age groups.

I do have a bit of experience teaching new people to play Doom, but Doom is a hard game so it's difficult to get someone to see how cool it is unless they want to be good at it. Fortunately, for people like my younger brother, who doesn't play Doom very often but still has a fond appreciation for it, the skills he's gained from playing fast-paced online games like Team Fortress 2 and Quake Live translate pretty well into the Doom universe. He's not perfect at it, but he can certainly make a hard opponent in deathmatch after an hour or two adjusting to the game, and even after multi-year breaks he can still come back to Doom 2: Hell on Earth and do relatively well solving the maps.

On the other hand, you have people like my wife, who doesn't really have any experience with shooters, gets bored and overwhelmed by the simplest puzzles (like pressing a switch that opens a door in the adjacent room), is highly discouraged by dying, and can barely get through E1M3: Toxin Refinery without melting in a nukage pit. If she's not interested in being challenged further than that, then she probably will never fully realize how great Doom is to me.

I think if games can keep from devolving into little Candy Crush, Flappy Bird time wasters designed for brief periods like being in the waiting room at the dentist office, and remain long arduous adventures that test reflexes, agility, and reaction times, then the fascination of Doom's gameplay should be preserved for a long time.

[Doomkid]

OK, let me clear this up. Newbies are awesome, There's nothing wrong with being a newbie. My point was more that people who don't know what they're talking about come in all ages, and have been around throughout each generation in gaming. For some reason I assumed Doominator2 was talking about someone who said they disliked Doom, but looking back, my brain fused two separate posts together... Whoops.

FireFish said:

I find it funny that you call new players with litle knowledge about a game they just started to play 'retarded bandwagon players'
(...)
They have a name for a player base actively insulting and destroying new players ; poisonous gamers in poisonous comunities, and elitists.

I'm not talking about people who are new to a game, though.. I'm talking about bandwagon riders. The two are not even remotely the same. Bandwagon riders in this context means people who passionately cling to an opinion (such as "old games are lame", for example, an opinion you will hear from many youngsters, this is what Joe667 is talking about) who don't even know why they cling to that opinion.

I'm not being elitist, I'm not trying to insult any Newbies. I thought the guy who asked how to "use frags" had also said Doom was bad, that was why I called it cringeworthy. Newbie is not the same as a n00b, just so you know, a n00b is a douchebag who talks smack in-game. what I'm saying is you'll get elitists of all ages and all generations who will praise what they like to the very end, and trash talk things they dislike even if they know nothing about them.

I've never seen a newbie "destroyed" on doomworld, unless they were also a n00b.

purist said:

How welcoming to new players it is to snidely call players unfamiliar with the mechanics of the game Noobs and bandwagonning retards! I suppose you should research a game to be fully armed with all the facts before deciding to play.

This is not at all what I was attempting to get accross. I was directing this at people who are sometimes young, as Joe667 said, but sometimes old, as I was trying to point out. People who dislike old games just because they're old (which is basically the topic of the thread) are bandwagon riders, because that's a thing I've seen a lot of. They're riding a bandwagon. Playing a new game is not riding a bandwagon, but regurgitating an opinion you heard even though you don't know if it's true is.

I hope I've made myself explicitly clear this time around, my first post was pretty damn unclear. I would never put down a newbie just for being new, but I will happily put down someone who dislikes Doom (or any other game, song, movie or TV show) just because its old. That's the point I was attempting to make in all this mess.

[Doominator2]

Doomkid said:

OK, let me clear this up. Newbies are awesome, There's nothing wrong with being a newbie. My point was more that people who don't know what they're talking about come in all ages, and have been around throughout each generation in gaming. For some reason I assumed Doominator2 was talking about someone who said they disliked Doom, but looking back, my brain fused two separate posts together... Whoops.

We actually laughed and enjoyed the deathmatch, he was new at playing Doom and decided to try it out after playing some more modern FPS.

[Doomkid]

Ah, that's great to hear then. New players are always a good thing!

[Jaxxoon R]

Doominator2 said:

deathmatch

He probably saw the "FRAGS" counter on the status bar and assumed you were awarded a frag grenade every time you killed the other player.

[geekmarine]

On the subject of noobs, ironically, I never call newcomers to a game "noob." I'm actually quite patient and tolerant when it comes to someone who's new to a game and wants to learn. I reserve the term "noob" for an idiot who's played for a while but still doesn't get it, and refuses to learn. Mostly it comes up in team-based games like TF2, when you try hopelessly to explain to someone what they're supposed to be doing (you know, like telling an engie that's a dumb place for a sentry or telling a medic they should be healing people, not running around trying to melee enemies to death), and they insist that they know everything, they know what they're doing, they're pros and you're the idiot for trying to correct their stupid behavior. That person, the one who plays stupidly, hurts the team, and refuses attempts to offer advice, that is who I call a noob.

[GreyGhost]

FireFish said:

They will have their own classic games to play 20 years from now.

That's assuming the lack of dedicated multi-player and/or authentication servers allows them to play at all.

[peach freak]

I was starting high school when the Doom movie came out. Whenever I brought up Doom to somebody, I generally got one of three responses:

1) "Did you know the movie is coming/came out?"

2) "Did you know the BFG stands for Big F'ing Gun?"

3) "Did you see the Chainsaw scene in the movie that's done in first person?"

[Phml]

purist said:

How welcoming to new players it is to snidely call players unfamiliar with the mechanics of the game Noobs and bandwagonning retards! I suppose you should research a game to be fully armed with all the facts before deciding to play.

Well, Doomkid handled it gracefully, but just so it's clear he's not making his own rules, here's me doing your research for you. ;) The following are the first two results on a Google search for "noob":

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Noob
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newbie

The distinction between noob/n00b and newbie is an important one, and has been widely accepted in online gaming communities for a while.

[myk]

It's funny when the Internet goes on a normative language binge, but in the end any use of "you're new", newbie, newb, noob, n00b or nub will more often than not be derisive in online places where people don't know or love each other and are playing competitive games with violent or "manly" themes, which is the type of context where these terms are used a lot.

Doomkid said:
New players are always a good thing!

Well said. Which even implies those that start out in an apparently retarded fashion. Looking back we can all probably spot periods in which we ourselves were not exactly geniuses.

[FireFish]

I totally agree with myk his point on this.
@DoomKid, It seems we all went on to focus on something accidental (misunderstood)... lol.

Firefish said :
They will have their own classic games to play 20 years from now.

GreyGhost said :
That's assuming the lack of dedicated multi-player and/or authentication servers allows them to play at all.

Humanity
By the time this happens, Doom will look like an Atari game compared to the next, next, generations games heh.

These made me laugh because there is so much truth in those. forced company owned server technology and the aging of graphics.

[Phml]

It's funny when the Internet goes on a normative language binge

Heh!

First time I've heard the newbie/noob distinction was back in 1998 in a cooperative MMO without PVP. Probably goes back much further than that seeing as I'm pretty much a newbie to the Internet.

Never seen anyone discuss the point, once made aware of it... except for forum warriors. A term you probably take offense at as well.

[myk]

Phml said:
A term you probably take offense at as well.

I've always cared about linguistic and media topics. I even studied the former at the uni and if you dig out threads on the casing of DOOM, the origins of cacodemon or the plural of mancubus, you'll find me there, interested. Perhaps it sounded like I was being averse to that branching of the topic or to what you said with my "when the Internet goes...", but it was a response to what I consider the indirect normative incidence of (at least) the Urban Dictionary, which is useful and a neat addition to the net but not necessarily a reliable source, on Wikipedia and Wiktionary.

The concept of forum warriors was greatly popularized by the flame warriors series, for example. I was pointing out that, nuances aside, anything from newbie to nub tends toward offensive on the net.

The main reason the more deformed variants can be offensive more easily is because they're saying "I'm coming from a more techy guy, a hacker or 'script kiddie' looking down at you through my altered code-like tongue". A distinction is being made between newb and noob, yet they both should sound somewhat less friendly than newbie itself, from where they derive.

[LockeRequiem]

If you ask a kid around my age and grade (6th, 12) to either play or see a video or watch you play, that kid will say that:

A: The graphics are terrible. Too pixely

B: A lame game (how dare they!)

C: No point to the game

And D: Overall boring game. They're assuming this cause of the age the game is. That's my guess.

[Doomkid]

LockeRequiem said:

If you ask a kid around my age and grade (6th, 12) to either play or see a video or watch you play, that kid will say that:

A: The graphics are terrible. Too pixely

B: A lame game (how dare they!)

C: No point to the game

And D: Overall boring game. They're assuming this cause of the age the game is. That's my guess.

Sad to hear :(

I thought kids were supposed to love games like Minecraft and stuff, though. Even though it's pixelated and basic - or more likely, because it's pixelated and basic - people of all ages, myself included, love Minecraft! I find it mind blowing that anyone who likes both Minecraft and COD/Halo/other FPS could dislike Doom, since it's essentially "cute pixelated baddies" (lol) and "super violent action" all rolled into one.

No point to the game? Well hell, what's the point to any game, then?

There you go Locke, now you have some ammo to try and convince your friends to give it a fair shot ;)

On a side note, I think if online Dooming (CTF, Deathmatch, and the more modern game modes in Zandronum) got the publicity that Brutal Doom did, we'd see a whole new wave of players looking to get competitive. I think something that prevents Doom from growing even larger is that the common gamer doesn't even realize it has awesome competitive play against other humans. (single player Doom definitely takes a backseat to competitive multiplayer, at least in my eyes!)

Isn't the only reason COD is so huge because of the online multiplayer?