PSX Final Doom - GamePro 1996 Screenshot

[Tokokoko]

Hi, does anyone know what MAP the bottom right screenshot is from?

http://imgur.com/oeQ9Asf

[Tristan]

This screenshot right?



This is very interesting. A green torch. Blue key bars leading to something that goes through that long wall, green textures, liquid area on the right.

Literally the only thing I can think of is that it's some edited version of The Inmost Dens. I don't recognise it from the final product, so it's possible this was an exclusive map that got cut.

[joe-ilya]

Probably from the master levels or it is just an XBOX map.

[Tristan]

No, and no.

[Doominator2]

Dont really remember any of the psx version, so is it basically a level by level port of Doom or Doom 2 or is it completely new levels?

[Guest Unregistered account]

I have to agree with Eris. It doesn't seem to resemble anything other than The Inmost Dens.

That said, I haven't actually played PSX Doom outside of watching AltimaMantoid's playthroughs. :)

[Tristan]

Dont really remember any of the psx version, so is it basically a level by level port of Doom or Doom 2 or is it completely new levels?

Mostly yes, although PSX Doom had some bonus levels. They were "Twilight Descends", its secret level "The Marshes," "The Mansion," accessed from Suburbs, "Threshold of Pain" to finish Ultimate Doom, "Redemption Denied," the closer for Doom II, and the famous super-secret level accessed from the mansion "Club Doom." There was also Hell Gate and a new Hell Keep both carried over from the Jaguar ports.

PSX Final Doom had no such exclusive levels, or even any secret levels, so despite saying there were 32 maps present, there were in fact just 30.
I'm almost certain this is a genuine PSX Lost Level. Great find, Tok!

EDIT: While I say it resembles Inmost Dens, this does mean it could be an early attempt at Neurosphere, with placeholder textures, but that seems unlikely to me. I don't think it's any of the master levels (Paradox is the only one with a similar style to TID) and it's definitely not one of the XBox maps that didn't exist until 9 years later.

[Blastfrog]

It's worth noting that I found two unused (and seemingly broken/corrupt) maps on the Final Doom disc image, MAP31 and MAP32.

[kmxexii]

it kind of looks like Mustaine's inmost dens knockoff, heh

EDIT

[Guest Unregistered account]

Well, the sky could be a hint... Hell sky? Maybe it IS one of the corrupted secret levels, Sodaholic!

[Quasar]

kmxexii said:

it kind of looks like Mustaine's inmost dens knockoff, heh

Which TNT map is that? Because that's definitely an exact match to the PSX shot.

[kmxexii]

Quasar said:

Which TNT map is that? Because that's definitely an exact match to the PSX shot.

TWM01.WAD, scroll to "the master levels map submission that failed"

[Doom_user]

That's cool, I never knew TNT maps 1 and 17 were unused Master Levels.

I bet TWM01.WAD was put in the PSX Final Doom while it's approval as a PC Master Level was pending, but when ID rejected it from the PC version it was also removed from the PSX version.

[Tristan]

Seriously considering converting that map for lost levels now.

[Devalaous]

Eris Falling said:

Seriously considering converting that map for lost levels now.

The Lost Master Levels. Klie's rejected maps and that map :D

Eris Falling said:

it's definitely not one of the XBox maps that didn't exist until 9 years later.

If your referring to Sewers and Betray, those were made in 1994 and 1995 respectively, hence why they are in Lost Levels as bonuses. They existed at the time PSX Doom was made.

[Dragonsbrethren]

Very cool discovery.

[Blastfrog]

I looked a bit deeper into the PSX Final Doom disc image contents and unfortunately don't have a lot to go on, but I'll document my findings here.

All but one of the files regarding the cut maps in the MAPDIR3 directory are actually just 8 bytes containing the ASCII text "empty". It's pretty clear that these were deliberately nullified, perhaps by hand.

However, they forgot to nullify MAPSPR31.IMG. I assume that this is supposed to be a table of which sprites to load in the map, but I don't know the format and won't bother to reverse engineer it (I imagine that Kaiser and/or Quasar might have already done so). In any case, it's roughly 642KB which is about the ballpark of many other MAPSPRxx.IMG files. This is likely our only clue to go on in figuring out which maps once occupied these slots, unless we can contact a knowledgeable developer*.

Any evidence of two cut maps are absent in the SNDMAPSx directories, the only .LCD files there cover the first 30 maps with one strange exception: MAP60.LCD. It's notably larger than any of the other LCD files on the disc in the SNDMAPSx directories, weighing in at approximately 416KB and it appears to be identical to that MAP60.LCD in the original PSX Doom in content, though the date modified timestamp is different.

Lastly, I tried searching for level names. They are stored in plain ASCII in PSXDOOM.EXE, but I only found the names for the first 30 maps. I'm disappointed that I didn't find any unused names past those first 30 slots.

*Should we attempt this?

[betabox]

Somewhat related, there's a guy who has been after Doom prototypes and he made a thread here that he got a Final Doom PSX beta. Could be something on that.

EDIT: And it is apparently larger in size than the released, final version. Here

[ReFracture]

"The movement is still as fluid and free of slowdown as the first PSX version."

*cough* bullshit *cough*

[scalliano]

Oh, come ON! It was 1996, after all.

@joe-ilya: Your chronology's out, ever so slightly.

[Jaxxoon R]

NDA? Isn't Williams as a company dead by now? Doesn't modern Id Software have zero-to-no interest in PSX Doom as a whole?

[scalliano]

Yes on both counts. Williams became Midway, and we all know what happened there ...

[Blastfrog]

All I can say is that I hope that prototype becomes available to the public regardless of how legally "kosher" that may be. Really, it'd be for research purposes and more public knowledge is always a good thing. The only extant party that could possibly care clearly doesn't.

Maybe we'd find out what the mystery maps are? Perhaps there was even a different map arrangement, or even more than 32 maps. Without it, I can only blindly guess.

[betabox]

Going by a post made by the guy on another forum, that will probably not happen as long as he has it. Still, there's the possibility that his disc isn't the only one in existence holding that build; it is apparently a review copy after all, and for a disc-based game. What's to say there aren't other (earlier) protos of Final Doom PSX out there, in extent.

[Blastfrog]

buttspit said:

Going by a post made by the guy on another forum, that will probably not happen as long as he has it.

Can you direct me to this post? And who exactly is the owner, can I get into contact with him somehow? I'm willing to spend what it takes (to an extent) to get this disc if he can confirm the exact size and/or contents of the disc. The existence of non-blank maps past slot 30 is a solid confirmation that this is what I'm after.

[betabox]

Yeah. It's here: http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?StartRow=41&catid=6&threadid=123393

PM sent, BTW.

[Quasar]

Now documented on the wiki:
http://doomwiki.org/wiki/Doom2_Map14_Homage

[Jaxxoon R]

I hate it when people pull this shit with prototype builds, always hoarding them and all that jazz.

With the NDA, couldn't someone just get Romero or Carmack to persuade them to hand it over? Judging about how they're following through with an agreement with long-defunct parties, I doubt they'd really know any better if one of the big names behind the games them self showed up.

Of course, I could not be giving them enough credit...

[FireFish]

Been browsing those 1995-1996-1997 gamepro magazines on the archive and those contain more epic nostalgia and interesting old-school magazine and gaming art than a nostalgic trip can handle.
Some of them also have interesting doom64 previews, quake previews, etc.

[kmxexii]

Quasar said:

Now documented on the wiki:
http://doomwiki.org/wiki/Doom2_Map14_Homage

cool, feels neat "solving" a mystery