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Pure Hellspawn

i'd like to script boss maps

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Hello fellow Doomers,

I don't know where to put this so I figure I'd put it here. As I've said from time to time, I am a fan of seeing how the IoS (as well as other boss fights) are implemented. There are plenty of vanilla IoS maps.

So I decided to give my skills a try. Since I am a programmer and I specialize in ACS scripting, I figured I'd split a map and contribute to the Doom community with my scripting skills. This has been done with my Marble Demon Boss (yeah ik it's poorly rated but still) and more recently, maps 29 and 30 of WOOO 2 with Walter Confalonieri which can be downloaded here: https://www.mediafire.com/?1ez7j9878uppgma. My marble demon boss is here: http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?file=levels/doom2/Ports/m-o/marboss.zip - please take the scripting into account and not the map itself when looking at this.

The reason I made this thread is because I would like to continue doing this with more maps and I would like to know if anyone is interested. Essentially, we come up with the idea and you do the mapping and I do the scripting.

With this said, here's some guidelines I'd like to work with at first.

1. I can do real basic mapping, thing placement and scripting. Possibly DECORATE as well, but I'd have to really study it.
2. Small maps at first. Nothing big. I like maps with the IoS as well as boss fights.
3. This thread is NOT some mega-cool or whatnot project I am working on. It is only me volunteering my services as a script writer so I can make some new DOOM maps.
4. First come first serve.
5. Doom II only. Maps will be in UDMF format. I use Doom Builder 2 for scripts.
6. I'd like to start out slow and see how this goes. At this time I will take on ONE map.
7. Please take a look at some of my past work before responding to get an idea of where my skill is.

MAPS: The Marble Demon Boss, WOOO 2 Maps 29/30 (scripting)
Currently Working On:

Ideas I Thought Of:

1. Tower of Sin. An IoS fight where you have to survive numerous obstacles and fights all while the icon spits monsters at you! climb it up at get to the top where yep, a massive boss fight awaits.

2. Puzzles of Sin. This puzzle map consists of a few puzzles that must be solved... all while defending yourself from the IoS monsters.

3. Perhaps a map where you a rocket is randomly spawned and the IoS is damaged only by the rocket. As the IoS is damaged, it spawns more monsters and possibly is more likely to spit out tougher monsters (requires a DECORATE override).

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this sounds sweet. I guess my only issue would be finding a good enough non ios monster(s) to use. this is awesome that you're offering to do this :D

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Tango said:

this sounds sweet. I guess my only issue would be finding a good enough non ios monster(s) to use. this is awesome that you're offering to do this :D


thanks! I've fought my fair share of non IoS bosses. There are a couple of good ones but not that many.

If you want we can use DECORATE to create something, but either you or someone else will have to obtain the necessary sprites. If you got any map ideas just let me know!

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You could take some inspiration from Vergil's Claustrauphobia.
There are about 4 scripted boss fights WITHOUT NEW SPRITES (except for the final boss).

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MisriHalek said:

You could take some inspiration from Vergil's Claustrophobia.
There are about 4 scripted boss fights WITHOUT NEW SPRITES (except for the final boss).


the awesome thing about scripting is you don't TECHNICALLY need new sprites for any custom boss. The marble demon boss is based off a stock DOOM 2 wall. Super Sonic DOOM is based off of structures and stuff.

you got any ideas for a map you want to make?

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I've got ideas for bosses for my level, but I'm not really that good enough to implement them.

I can make normal enemies fine, but the sprites and making the boss do something new I don't really know much about.

Later today when I get back from town we can probably talk about it if you want, see what you think. I have a basis for my bosses, just not made yet. If you scroll down you'll see them.

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/68507-dark-cathedral-wad/

I'll also take a better look at your work too, sounds quite cool.

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sure! i'll let you in on my opinion.

some questions to answer though:

1:Do you use DEHACKED or DECORATE for the normal enemies?
2:Sprite making is something I cannot do either - I can use DECORATE to program the sprites but my graphics ability is just not good enough to make sprites. Are you able to make images of the monsters and projectiles?
3:I definitely encourage you to look at my past projects and get a feel of what I am able to do. Keep in mind that none of them use DECORATE; they are all ACS based. I can use the DECORATE language but I'll have to refresh my memory.

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The Marble boss was quite cool. Felt like a mix between the icon of sin and attacks you get from old school boss battles in those old platformers.

But yeah, I use Decorate for my enemies.

I can do well to edit existing sprites fine, but new ones are a little difficult for me, I have had to cannibalise some sprite elements from other monsters and edit those to as close to my vision as possible...and in the case of making the boss ideas I've had, I just can't make good looking sprites for them.

Although I did make a new death animation for the Baron, which took a fair bit of work...and the marine enemy I made for another WAD has the basic death of the player but with altered electricity shots placed in. And I managed to create some simple ant graphics for one enemy.

The little ghost enemy I made was done by drawing him out by hand and taking photographs of each frame...but I don't really like how this turned out...my camera took his image in way too good resolution and so scaling him down made him look a bit bad in my eyes. I would use this method again should I get my hands on an older camera. I tried scanning too, but the I got the same problem....too big of an image to scale down nicely.

The ideas I have for the bosses though are like a vampire looking creature and a spirit looking one, each to guard a different key. The arena which is the crypts for the Spirit is big enough to boss battle in...but the Vampire's lair I might have to expand, which I can do.

When you say to make images of the monsters, do you mean on the computer or to hand draw them out? I have already drawn out what I imagine them to look like by hand.

http://imageshack.com/a/img673/3255/S8w5KR.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img674/9360/0nPqqh.png

Not sure about projectiles yet, I was thinking of the vampire spawning bats at you and pulling off an attack similar to the archvile but using smoke instead of fire, and all it does it take health off you, it doesn't blow you up. I could have a go at drawing out simple bat graphics though.

As for the spirit, I imagined him to do a basic charge attack like a lost soul and in addition to that I saw him be immune to attack for a little while, while he leaves these energy spills around which can hurt you.

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Xegethra said:

The Marble boss was quite cool. Felt like a mix between the icon of sin and attacks you get from old school boss battles in those old platformers.

But yeah, I use Decorate for my enemies.

I can do well to edit existing sprites fine, but new ones are a little difficult for me, I have had to cannibalise some sprite elements from other monsters and edit those to as close to my vision as possible...and in the case of making the boss ideas I've had, I just can't make good looking sprites for them.

Although I did make a new death animation for the Baron, which took a fair bit of work...and the marine enemy I made for another WAD has the basic death of the player but with altered electricity shots placed in. And I managed to create some simple ant graphics for one enemy.

The ideas I have are like a vampire looking creature and a spirit looking one, each to guard a different key. The arena which is the crypts for the Spirit is big enough to boss battle in...but the Vampire's lair I might have to expand, which I can do.

When you say to make images of the monsters, do you mean on the computer or to hand draw them out? I have already drawn out what I imagine them to look like by hand.

http://imageshack.com/a/img673/3255/S8w5KR.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img674/9360/0nPqqh.png

Not sure about projectiles yet, I was thinking of the vampire spawning bats at you and pulling off an attack similar to the archvile but using smoke instead of fire, and all it does it take health off you, it doesn't blow you up. I could have a go at drawing out simple bat graphics though.

As for the spirit, I imagined him to do a basic charge attack like a lost soul and in addition to that I saw him be immune to attack for a little while, while he leaves these energy spills around which can
hurt you.


The images would have to be on the computer. Images of it facing all directions for each movement state(s), pain state(s), attack state(s) etc plus projectiles. So we could be talking 50+ images.


Vampire smoke attack - look at the Diabloist in the Realm667 Bestiary for this one. It's attack is just like the one you described.

Spawning bats would be similar to the Pain Elemental spitting out lost souls. Imp Warlords (another custom creature) CAN spawn Bat Familiar's at you.

Spirit's immunity could be DECORATE based but I could see that being ACS based as well. Perhaps make a Spirit in DECORATE that isn't immune and then using ACS to make it immune could work?

Charge attack is tricky. I'd look at the DECORATE for the Hellsmith for that. It's possible there's mathematics and physics involved.

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Pure Hellspawn said:

The images would have to be on the computer. Images of it facing all directions for each movement state(s), pain state(s), attack state(s) etc plus projectiles. So we could be talking 50+ images.


Ahh you meant a full sprite set, not just a "what would they look like?" sort of thing.

Well, I will keep trying to make some then. I could have a go at the spirit first off. If they still look terrible I can still try to morph him out of an existing enemy...although I would like to try avoiding that.

Pure Hellspawn said:

Vampire smoke attack - look at the Diabloist in the Realm667 Bestiary for this one. It's attack is just like the one you described.


Ahh OK sweet.

Pure Hellspawn said:

Spawning bats would be similar to the Pain Elemental spitting out lost souls. Imp Warlords (another custom creature) CAN spawn Bat Familiar's at you.


Yeah, I understand some basics of enemies spawning from other enemies, my AntMan spits out other ants at you. But I don't know how to do it in a way which would have the vamp pause, then spawn lots of them out for a couple of seconds then stop spawning them to move on.

Pure Hellspawn said:

Spirit's immunity could be DECORATE based but I could see that being ACS based as well. Perhaps make a Spirit in DECORATE that isn't immune and then using ACS to make it immune could work?

Charge attack is tricky. I'd look at the DECORATE for the Hellsmith for that. It's possible there's mathematics and physics involved.


Haha, that's a pretty good charge attack he has there. I wouldn't really know about how immunity works though, I thought about him doing it while he puts down these energy spills, like floating mines for you to wander into while trying to keep up with him....then of course when he stops putting them down you can hurt him again giving the illusion that he "used" up all of his energy to place them and protect himself as he does so so he is hurtable after that....it doesn't make much sense to me to have him immune for no reason, and then vulnerable again without an implied reason.

Which parts would have to be ACS? I've never really used ACS, I failed with it when trying out moving platforms once. How would you link it to an enemy?

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Yep, full sprites. The baron for instance:

8 sprites for it standing still (first frame). 1 per direction.
8 sprites for it standing still (second frame). 1 per direction.
8 sprites for the pain state.
7 or so sprites for it's death.
8 sprites for it's pre-fire animation.
8 sprites for it's firing.

Projectiles (if they exist):
4-6 or so sprites for the projectile death. (baron uses 4?)
at least 2 sprites for the projectile's movement. the icon of sin cube uses 2. a cyberdemon's rocket uses 4. (baron uses 4)


this is an image of all the baron's sprites (just the baron without projectile)




The Hellsmith actually has another attack that makes it completely immune to all damage while the attack is running. Same thing with the Thamuz. So in this regard it's DECORATE, but it's also possible to do with ACS. For instance, in my marble demon boss, the wall is only vulnerable after it finishes an attack for a little while. once it's shot or time expires, it's invulnerable again.

Pretty much everything (linedefs, sectors, and things) can have tags. You can call scripts to do things to objects that are tagged. the marble demon boss is a great example of a linedef being tagged. the linedef doesn't have health itself persay, but a variable is used to signify it's health. a script can be activated by shooting at it which checks an invulnerability boolean and decreases the health variable if that is set to false and so on. You can do all sorts of things using ACS to objects that have tags. Change textures, have monsters have lots of hp or instantly die, teleport things, take weapons away.


i think the spirit's mine attack can be done in DECORATE. the mine could be a monster in of itself that uses a melee attack (explosion) when it's hate target is next to it. think of it being a demon that cannot move and bites you when you are right next to it.

it's quite possible that it can all be done in DECORATE. then again, I know I'd have to refresh my DECORATE memory.

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Yes, everything you two mentioned is possible in decorate. Using the A_ChangeFlag keyword with the appropriate flag [es: if you want to make it invulnerabile you have to use A_ChangeFlag("INVULNERABLE",1), and after in another frame use A_ChangeFlag("INVULNERABLE",0)to make it back to normal, it can be used with certain sprites to simulate a barrier or a mutation that prevent damages temporally].

If you want a swarm attack you can call A_SpawnItemEx (http://zdoom.org/wiki/A_SpawnItemEx) multiple times to make it spawn how many minions you need in a single attak state (you can also set the master\minion relationship so the minions won't attack the master and/or viceversa).

I can put up an example wad if needed.

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Well, I got some sprite work done, I'm happy with it it mostly.



I haven't made any moving sprites, I intend for him to use the idle sprites while he moves, I tested this out by putting in some sprites into a WAD and using the base code of the cacodemon, then I told it to use the idle sprites for the movement too and I think it looks pretty decent...the way he looks there's no point in making separate moving sprites as people wouldn't really notice. He still looks decent sitting and moving.

Some angles he might look a bit odd, but I tried.

But yeah, I have had a go at making some charging sprites, pain sprites, immune while dropping mine sprites and death sprites.

*Edit*

Well, I now have a working prototype boss fight, he only attacks by charging at you (But not in that fancy way like that custom monster) and I experimented with some actor properties to see what effects what. Part way there but I think I'm coming to my limit on what I can do with him, as he doesn't charge all cool like yet, or drop any mines, or become immune to damage as he does so.

So far he is just a normal enemy with a lot of health.

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