Mapping when there are better mappers around

[Memfis]

More idiot questions about mapping from me, I guess it's a stupid comedy thread and you don't need to reply. Let's say you make a level, maybe even put a lot of effort into it. But then you load some awesome wad like ksutra or dchronix or bldnight, and you realize that they're much better than your work is (and, probably, will ever be). Well, that's kind of discouraging, isn't it? Like, why even make something if it will suck then. How do you cope with this? Do you have to be an overconfident bastard to be able to map? Sometimes I envy those people that present their wads like the best things ever, I wish I could do that lol.

[kmxexii]

Memfis said:

More idiot questions about mapping from me, I guess it's a stupid comedy thread and you don't need to reply. Let's say you make a level, maybe even put a lot of effort into it. But then you load some awesome wad like ksutra or dchronix or bldnight, and you realize that they're much better than your work is (and, probably, will ever be). Well, that's kind of discouraging, isn't it? Like, why even make something if it will suck then. How do you cope with this? Do you have to be an overconfident bastard to be able to map? Sometimes I envy those people that present their wads like the best things ever, I wish I could do that lol.

by making a map that someone will play you are entering into a very unique dialogue with the player which can often be carried back to the author through the wonder and magic of fdas. that is a big part of why i play doom maps (well not recording fdas) - these wonderlands filled with demons are in some way extensions of the authors themselves, whether it is something from the loathsome dregs of 1994 or something that has been polished to hell and back. like when i am playing jim flynn's or bob evans's puzzle boxes, its something from them that reflects what they wanted to see in doom and i am somewhat fascinated by that, and i may have found the combat that populated hellbounds gorgeous landscapes boring but its still really cool seeing z86's take on what doom means to him. make maps to share what doom is to you, not to show that your doom is better, because no matter what someone out there is going to hate the fuck out of your shit

[MTrop]

Figure out what you like about their work. Emulate it in your own. Put your work on display. Listen to feedback. Keep using the tools. Refine your process. Don't stop creating. You suck now, but you'll suck less tomorrow.

[Pure Hellspawn]

i guess since i "made" a map for WOOO 2 (well two maps), i'll respond. though i don't really call myself a mapper. i hope this post isn't off topic but it describes my feelings when i have tried to map in the past (and present).

I looked at the tutorial and found that making a door, stairs, teleports is definitely something out of my league. It took me hours to learn how to make even so much as a door. sectors, invisible sectors just for lighting etc... i couldn't make a map even if my life depended on it. Otherwise I'd make myself a good map every once in a while.

Enter scripting. Unlike mapping, this is something I'm actually quite decent at. i never expected to be part of a DW Project (and until now never was - i've been on this forum for over a decade if you count lurking). But Walter Confalonieri got an idea for a little map I made for myself and he made a map. As for me, I was in control of the scripting.

Another reason I can't map is because of scripting. It's so tempting to throw scripts in every room that it took me a month to finish one room! Just for an IoS fight I made at least 7 longer scripts including a health meter!


So in other words, even if you absolutely fail at mapping there are many ways to contribute to a DOOM project. Music, Sprites, Textures, Scripts, DECORATE for new weapons and monsters, as well as Pictures for BOSSBAK and TITLEPIC.

[Breezeep]

I was inspired by Ribbik's works, Including Elik Alm's too.
With my Recent works for Plutinya, I've got a crap ton of things to learn.

[SFoZ911]

I have no idea what you talking about here, sorry.

[Tuxlar]

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1297740#post1297740

[Chopkinsca]

I suffer from this quite a bit. I'd check out other people's maps for inspiration, but instead I'd feel discouraged. It felt like I sucked compared to other mappers, so why bother. I'd eventually lose the feeling and would get back to mapping, but that feel would come back often.

Looking back, the attitude to take with mapping is to create something you enjoy, not make the next next 'best' mod. I admit, it can be addicting to have people admire your work, but in the end, do it for yourself.

[vdgg]

bldnight

I think Erik himself wasn't too confident at that time and was stealing loads of stuff from Fredrik; but he kept on mapping anyway.

dchronix

What is this example doing here? It's a really bland map by an excellent mapper.

ksutra

OK Gusta's work is awesome, you probably can't beat him by emulating his style, but there are many others - equally good - styles to choose from.


I have another limit-removing WIP map. It will probably be worse than my previous one, I wouldn't bother finishing it, but again it contains just a few tiny things which I never saw in other people's maps: basically this is what motivates me.

[joepallai]

the simple truth is if you aren't mapping for yourself first, you will always be disappointed with your work. With every map you make you learn and/or gain something that then goes into the next one. It really isn't a competition (though it does feel like that at times).

[darkreaver]

I understand the OP question. Sometimes I've had the same thoughts/questions, but; there might be better mappers, or 'better' mappers, but in the end I map for myself, actually. Yes, others will play the maps, but if they don't like them, I don't care. I like them (well...heh). For me it's about creating worlds. My own worlds, and no one else makes them like I want them to be*, so looking at it that way, no one is 'better' than me, in my eyes.

*of course I really like some other peoples work, much more than my own stuff actually, but I guess you understand what I mean

[dg93]

There will always be better mappers in the community. I usually go frustrated with my work when I see better old school maps than mine from Gothic, Exec, or Greenwar. But I take my time and I usually acquire new mapping styles and techniques just by observing other's maps.

[Phml]

I only map to make stuff I wish existed. When other people do the job, I feel happy about it rather than discouraged. Less work and more play makes Phml a happy Doomer.

[scifista42]

No, I don't feel discouraged when I see better maps than mine, and I'm totally glad that there are great maps and great mappers around. It's not like if I competed for fame and honour, not in the slightest. Mapping is simply about providing playable material for players, and also a free space for creativity of mappers. I will never be the best mapper, probably not even a decent one, but I'll always enjoy mapping when creativity comes to me.

I admit, besides my own enthusiasm, I would also like if my maps were good in the means that players (who tried them) would genuinely find them enjoyable (fulfilling the map's purpose). When I see other people's maps better than mine, I often envy - but don't feel discouraged. I really like to see and enjoy good maps, I wish the best to those mappers who were able to make it so far with their skill, and I imagine how it'd be if I managed it too, once. But if I didn't, I'm somehow reconciled with it. And still, I won't be discouraged from mapping, because the creative impulse just comes from within, I guess.

[Memfis]

I guess I mentioned dchronix because when I played it I was amazed by all the non-trivial design decisions, it's like Anthony never copied anyone and kept coming up with his own solutions to everything.

Interesting answers, particularly the one about "what Doom means to you". I think that's how I used to map before I started copying other wads instead.

[VGA]

We need some crappy maps so that the good ones feel like masterpieces...

[dobu gabu maru]

Rhetorically speaking, no matter what field you go into, there's always going to be scores of people that are better/wiser/smarter/craftier at your hobby than you, so I think the way you deal with it there is the same way you deal with it here (determination, acceptance and/or willful ignorance). For me it's harder to draw inspiration when you see those "better maps" torn down by the public or dissected by another player, taking the things you revered and having them flipped on their head. Granted it doesn't happen all too often but it can be disheartening, letting you think "well if they thought that was shit, I have no chance in hell of making a good map". There have been a handful of times where I've seen discussions like that go on and I've personally wondered if my time is better spent elsewhere.

Also people are going to aspire to different goals. For instance you listed ksutra as one of your points of reverence but for me personally, I'd rather aspire to map more like you than Gusta, since I generally find your work more entertaining/engaging (at least from what I've played). So at times you can wish you were "more like this author", while ironically other people may be wishing they were more like you (or, that you were more like you, if that makes sense).

[Doom_Dude]

I don't get discouraged at all. I like when somebody else makes something nice. It's pretty interesting to see the different things other level designers do with their levels. I mostly just do this mapping stuff for myself, though it's great when somebody else plays your map and likes it.