How high are your standards?

[Lycaon]

I was looking at some posts in the forum and presented projects or releases often look very, very good. I was wondering if it has gotten to a point in which maps that do not reach this visual quality or detail level are simply overlooked (since it must be flooded with regular, old looking wads). If I want my project to be played by at least some people, does it have to look like those professional maps? Do people still play rookie wads?

[Marcaek]

I don't think so. Doom is a kind of game whose maps still looks pretty good with a low level of detailing due to its fairly unique, abstract visual style. A level with simple geometry can compensate for this with good texture usage and lighting combined with interesting room shape and a layout that's fun to move through and explore. If you're going to make a level that looks oldschool you should still pay attention to texture alignment and bugs, thing placement and so on. Neglecting these aspects "just because" is lazy and your work will deservedly be panned for it.

[joe-ilya]

Just give me something fun, bug and glitchfree to play and I'll appreciate it. But due to a big amount of people who always want a map that makes sense and looks realistic and is completely aligned, I try to do maps like this.

[VGA]

If you post your map here and in the zdoom forum and ask for opinions, some people will play it. Or you could apply to make a map for one of the WIP mapsets, those get attention.

[Doomkid]

If you think your map has at least some merit, even if it's basic or flawed, I'd reccommend posting it for feedback anyway and just letting people know you're new to the mapping scene. Usually you'll get good tips that will help improve your future mapping endeavors!

[Marcaek]

Yeah public feedback is great, just don't give people shit if they're critical. That's the stuff you want to hear, not just "OMG this is amazing marry me mr or ms wad making person"

[Doomkid]

A great thing about the Doom community is, if someone sees flaws/room for improvement in your work, they're generally quite respectful in their criticism, and comments like "wow this map sux" are pretty rare. You'll get a good feel for what players tend to like and dislike by posting your stuff and getting responses.

The ultimate key to attracting users to you work is screenshots! I'd say 9 times out of 10, if a user doesn't see screenshots, they bypass the thread.

[durian]

Nah, don't be silly. It's DOOM's intrinsic mechanics that make it fun. Being impressed by a map's visuals is distinct from enjoying playing it - it's nice when they go together, but the former is hardly a condition on the latter. Perhaps I'm too easy to please in this regard, but so long as there's an exit to find, some monsters to shoot, and some weapons to shoot them with, I'll most likely have a good time.

[40oz]

Many of us have been here for a long time actively trying to improve our skills and understanding of the game and the engine that runs it. Theres no shortage of Doom players here so you can be certain someone will play it and tell you what they think about it. There was a time where people were really critical of visual and realistic details I think, but we've evolved past that and the standard is generally that your maps should at the very least be on par with the Doom and Doom 2 IWAD levels.

personally I try to play all maps that are either vanilla doom, limit removing or boom compatible. Some maps get bumped up on my priority list if they are made by a mapper who has released a lot of maps, or usually gets very good reviews, or someone I've spoken to directly about mapping in the past.

some other things to keep in mind:

-deathmatch doesn't get a lot of love here. Not that its not respected, but were primarily a single player community first, deathmatch second.

-designing a map for a singular source port will narrow your scope of players, particularly in regards to players who primarily play Doom in vanilla or boom ports, you'd need to make something extraordinary to get them to play from a source port that is out of their comfort zone.

-posting screenshots and including as much details about your map as possible, such as how many levels, the required source port, a brief description, etc is also a really good and easy way to entice people to try your maps too.

[Rook]

Personally I have really high standards. Yes, Doom's core gameplay is what keeps us coming back but it's very easy to implement it badly and very difficult to do it properly. My favourite WADs are things like BTSX E1, UAC Ultra, and Skillsaw's maps because I find that they have a combination of superb geometry and texture usage, gameplay flow, and difficulty implementation. It sounds mean, but for me life is generally too short for me to play rookie maps. Really great maps are made by experienced, dedicated mappers willing to put a ton of time in.

With that said, I think it's brilliant that new people are coming into mapping, and Doomworld is great at giving people constructive criticism. Because I do have high standards my own maps seldom see the light of day, but on the two occasions I have put one out there I have received extremely helpful comments. I think that what I have tried to do as a rookie mapper is to make a simple map well, as opposed to getting too ambitious too early. For that reason, one complete map I have in the can is a MAP07, and I chose to make a MAP07 for 40oz's Plutonia 1024 project (kindly and ably completed by Surreily).

I've actually attempted to give up mapping ("I never finish anything, I'm terrible at this!") but I find it too enjoyable and compulsive and I keep coming back despite myself!

[scifista42]

I play all kinds of random wads from the first pages of Wads & Mods whenever I feel like it, and usually give feedback when I already do so. At other times (when I feel like it), I play random recent wads from /idgames and review them for /newstuff. At other times, I play other "less-recent" wads from /idgames, but then I'm a little more picky and the wad needs to catch my interest somehow (anyhow, not necessarily by a sheer quality). In this case, I usually don't inform anybody, at maximum I occasionally write an /idgames comment.

[Suitepee]

I generally appreciate Doom maps that have a good sense of gameplay flow about them, that aren't too sloggy/slow to progress through and with minimal confuusion as to where to go during the ride. Maps with interesting ideas that are executed well is nice too.

What I don't like seeing is obnoxious use of hitscanners (particularly chaingunners) & Revenants, unwarranted pain sectors and anything like Fire and Ice from Scythe in terms of a (slaughter) map.

[yakfak]

I revisit 1994 wads regularly and have a good time chain-gunning zombiemen positioned single-file in GRAY4 corridors. =P also I think there's only so much tailoring your style can handle before it becomes the community's Cacoward style, and if that's not what's in your head then you should let loose with whatever is!

[Vermil]

I'm far far more critical with my own maps when making them, than I am when I play other peoples maps.

[mrthejoshmon]

My standards are 90's levels of low.

I will like it if it plays good, but I won't mind if it looks like shit.

[Touchdown]

If a map looks like crap, I won't play it, even if it supposedly has the best gameplay ever. Visuals are part of the experience. They don't have to be top of the line or insanely overdetailed but if a map looks bad, no gameplay will save it for me.

What exactly is 'good enough' for me, visually? Hard to say. But I have to see something interesting there. If it looks like a bunch of boxes or if it's DOOM II style, I'll pass.

[Lycaon]

yakfak said:

I revisit 1994 wads regularly and have a good time chain-gunning zombiemen positioned single-file in GRAY4 corridors. =P also I think there's only so much tailoring your style can handle before it becomes the community's Cacoward style, and if that's not what's in your head then you should let loose with whatever is!

What do you mean by "Cacoward style". I'm sorry, but I've started paying attention to the doom community quite recently and am unaware of most terms :P

[scifista42]

Cacowards. Like Caco-Awards. It's an annual tradition of picking the best 10 wads of the year. Yakfak meant "style appreciated by the community so much, that it will surely make you a Cacoward winner". But don't take the statement literally.