Some good wads to build up?

[TheVoid]

I found a wad on Youtube called Sunder, which seems to be a pretty difficult wad. When I tried it, I got my ass handed to me on the second level. Are there any difficult wads that you guys can recommend that I play through to get good enough for said Sunder wad? The only rule is that the wad needs to be playable on Brutal Doom.

[esselfortium]

Have you tried Brutal Doom with Brutalist Doom?

[TheVoid]

I have not. What would you rate it in difficulty?

[esselfortium]

It's the brutalest.

[TheVoid]

esselfortium said:

It's the brutalest.

And it sucks. Its just a bland recoloring of the original game. I want a real custom wad.

[gemini09]

The Darkening 2 is a pretty cool Wad, but I'm unsure of how compatible it is with Brutal Doom, but I imagine it would be cool as it's a stylish Wad and not too difficult so Brutal Doom might complement it well.

I have a Wad in the works myself, and I know it's not going to be compatible with Brutal Doom so I was thinking of putting a sticker on its "Titlepic" (Title picture), saying "Not compatible with Brutal Doom". I've decided not to, but it will lead to some players playing it will Brutal Doom and ending up with a mess, though...

[Woolie Wool]

TheVoid said:

And it sucks. Its just a bland recoloring of the original game. I want a real custom wad.

Brutalist architecture has been determined by the Board of National Progress to exemplify the glorious warrior values of the nation. All dissidents will be terminated by the Internal Security Service. Remember, the Great Leader is always watching.

P.S. if you use Brutal Doom you will never beat a wad like Sunder.

[TheVoid]

Woolie Wool said:

P.S. if you use Brutal Doom you will never beat a wad like Sunder.

Thats kinda the point.

[tourniquet]

Discard BD and play it like it's supposed to be played.

[Zed]

I agree that playing Sunder-like wads with something like Brutal Doom is going to be more frustrating than fun, but if you insist, you can try Hell Revealed 2. It's going to be very difficult, but maybe you can look for some strategy from this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5c2TjY51-lY

Good luck.

[Woolie Wool]

TheVoid said:

Thats kinda the point.

You're not getting it. Wads like Sunder have an extremely precarious knife-edge balance and very specific strategies for surviving the encounters. By using BD you're tossing all that out the window and many encounters will probably be utterly impossible no matter how good you are.

[Demon of the Well]

Brutal Doom will summarily ruin most WADs with complex/demanding choreography built around the game's stock balance/play elements, precisely because these WADs tend to depend on very specific details of player movement and monster behavior (which BD changes) in a very specific environmental context in order to achieve the desired effect; the mod works better in WADs that feature a lot of more loose, incidental combat. If you want to play a challenging Brutal Doom WAD, your best bet is generally to look for something that was actively designed to be played with the mod; there was at least one megaWAD last year that fit the bill, but damned if I can remember its name. I believe it was made by a fellow called 'Arclite' hereabouts, if you can look up his posts you should find it in short order.

I'll tell you straight, though, Sunder (or any stylistically similar WAD) + Brutal Doom is just never going to work properly. Even if you're practiced enough at Brutal Doom to beat it, it's going to play like shit and be a horrible slog.

[Woolie Wool]

Also if you want to learn how to play slaughter wads for real, you'll want to go with regular Doom II behavior and probably start from the earliest antecedents--Plutonia first, then Punisher, then Hell Revealed, and work your way up. The earlier ones will be simpler and likely easier.

(also I don't know how new you are, but if you haven't at least beaten Doom II on UV, you're not going to get anywhere even with moderately difficult wads)

[esselfortium]

Woolie Wool said:

Also if you want to learn how to play slaughter wads for real, you'll want to go with regular Doom II behavior and probably start from the earliest antecedents--Plutonia first, then Punisher, then Hell Revealed, and work your way up. The earlier ones will be simpler and likely easier.

(also I don't know how new you are, but if you haven't at least beaten Doom II on UV, you're not going to get anywhere even with moderately difficult wads)

Obligatory correction: Plutonia only has one map that can be fairly considered a predecessor to slaughter-style gameplay.

[Woolie Wool]

Yeah, but it's harder than any of the other iwads and it has Go 2 It, so it's a good warmup to start with. It's a pretty logical progression from Go 2 It to Punisher and finally to Hell Revealed.

[Breezeep]

Demon of the Well said:

Brutal Doom will summarily ruin most WADs with complex/demanding choreography built around the game's stock balance/play elements, precisely because these WADs tend to depend on very specific details of player movement and monster behavior (which BD changes) in a very specific environmental context in order to achieve the desired effect; the mod works better in WADs that feature a lot of more loose, incidental combat. If you want to play a challenging Brutal Doom WAD, your best bet is generally to look for something that was actively designed to be played with the mod; there was at least one megaWAD last year that fit the bill, but damned if I can remember its name. I believe it was made by a fellow called 'Arclite' hereabouts, if you can look up his posts you should find it in short order.

I'll tell you straight, though, Sunder (or any stylistically similar WAD) + Brutal Doom is just never going to work properly. Even if you're practiced enough at Brutal Doom to beat it, it's going to play like shit and be a horrible slog.

^
This.

[TheVoid]

Zed said:

I agree that playing Sunder-like wads with something like Brutal Doom is going to be more frustrating than fun, but if you insist, you can try Hell Revealed 2. It's going to be very difficult, but maybe you can look for some strategy from this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5c2TjY51-lY

Good luck.

Ive already beaten Hell Revealed 2.

Woolie Wool said:

Also if you want to learn how to play slaughter wads for real, you'll want to go with regular Doom II behavior and probably start from the earliest antecedents--Plutonia first, then Punisher, then Hell Revealed, and work your way up. The earlier ones will be simpler and likely easier.

(also I don't know how new you are, but if you haven't at least beaten Doom II on UV, you're not going to get anywhere even with moderately difficult wads)

Beat both Doom 2 and Plutonia on UV.

[40oz]

TheVoid said:

Ive already beaten Hell Revealed 2.

Would it hurt to run through it again? or at the very least skip to some of your favorite levels?

You can successfully complete a dangerous wad at one point but if you don't continue training by entertaining yourself with maps of a similar skillset, your skills are likely to deteriorate over time.

By the way, Speed of Doom, Alien Vendetta, Hell Revealed 1, Eternal Doom, Plutonia 2, Plutonia Revisited, and Kama Sutra are all megawads with high-difficulty maps as their selling point. More recently, Resurgence is a megawad in beta stages you can try, and a more extreme option would be Eternal Slumber Party.

[TheVoid]

40oz said:

Would it hurt to run through it again? or at the very least skip to some of your favorite levels?

You can successfully complete a dangerous wad at one point but if you don't continue training by entertaining yourself with maps of a similar skillset, your skills are likely to deteriorate over time.

By the way, Speed of Doom, Alien Vendetta, Hell Revealed 1, Eternal Doom, Plutonia 2, Plutonia Revisited, and Kama Sutra are all megawads with high-difficulty maps as their selling point. More recently, Resurgence is a megawad in beta stages you can try, and a more extreme option would be Eternal Slumber Party.

This is a post I was looking for, giving me more than 1 or 2 Megawads. Of the ones listed, I actually already finished Hell Revealed 1, Plutonia 2, and Plutonia Revisited. That said, I will definitely get Speed of Doom, Alien Vendetta, and Kama Sutra, as well as check out Eternal Slumber Party and play through the completed ones again.

[Pirx]

Zed said:

I agree that playing Sunder-like wads with something like Brutal Doom is going to be more frustrating than fun, but if you insist, you can try Hell Revealed 2. It's going to be very difficult, but maybe you can look for some strategy from this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5c2TjY51-lY

Good luck.

interesting. well, he plays the first 2 maps from what i see, and map02 takes 4 parts. the later maps are probably rather frustrating as you say.

40oz said:

Would it hurt to run through it again? or at the very least skip to some of your favorite levels?

You can successfully complete a dangerous wad at one point but if you don't continue training by entertaining yourself with maps of a similar skillset, your skills are likely to deteriorate over time.

this. beating a megawad in contiguous play is very different from starting each map from scratch.

[T-Rex]

I haven't played Sunder, but I've seen how crazy difficult it is. My suggestion is to start first with Plutonia and Hell Revealed. Those are excellent starters for those who want to get the hang of extremely difficult Doom wads and both will warm you up for the big boys. Then follow it up with Scythe 1 and 2, Hell Revealed 2, Plutonia 2, Plutonia Revisited, Kama Sutra, and Alien Vendetta. By then, you should be able to handle slaughter-style wads, and from there on there's Speed of Doom and the Deus Vult duology.

[Ex Inferis]

Sorry for digging up an old thread, but i find myself unable to hold my tongue on this one...
I'm currently on map 9 of Sunder with Brutal Doom (on my second play through) and it rocks! Absolutely hardcore and limit testing, but not nearly as frustrating as i found it the first time (i had actually put this off for a while), definitely playable, and great fun if you're good enough and not scared of big crowds chasing you. And the beauty, man, the beauty...

Only real problem I see with the Sunder+BD combo is that it probably takes no less than the mainframe computer at NASA to run the bigger maps without lag lol...

The fact that BD and its author get a ton of hate on these forums for reasons that have nothing to do with gameplay, doesn't change the fact that it's perfectly suited for even the hardest wads out there. I've played pretty much every wad mentioned on this thread with it (and without it too), and they have all worked just fine, without game breaking stuff, major changes in strategy or unpassable spots. Don't buy the BS!

Changing themes, what happened to Sunder anyway? I thought Insane Gazebo had once stated that he would be adding more maps over time. Is Sunder officially complete, was it abandoned, or is it just stuck in some phase of development limbo?

[Phml]

At this point it's a safe bet Sunder is abandoned.

[Protester]

Phml said:

At this point it's a safe bet Sunder is abandoned.

And with his email address as "just PM me on Doomworld" the project is just about as done as it will ever be

As for you, void, if you want the brutal doom route, find some friends to do some survival coop, it makes it easier, without lessening the gameplay any.

[Ex Inferis]

Phml said:

At this point it's a safe bet Sunder is abandoned.

A real shame that is. That wad was truly next-level, in many different ways...
Guess we gotta be thankful for what we got!

[Doomkid]

Here is a 7 map vanilla wad I made ~18 months ago. Would be interested to hear how it goes with BD.

[SavageCorona]

Just gonna say Brutal Doom isn't very well liked around here and you're not going to get many serious replies besides the ones telling you why you shouldn't play Brutal Doom.

[Firedust]

Noooooooo, please, tell me Insanegazebo will comeback one day and finish this thing. Sunder has some of the best slaughtermaps ever. :(

Was it a long time ago since he last posted here?